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Old 2009-06-15, 10:57   Link #1061
Ca12nag3
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Perhaps it depends on wether you take the anime or the game. Tho the anime works more towards finding a world that stops the disaster from happening and thus the focus remains on Rika all the time. Key elements in the anime are Keiichi Rika & Takano.

Still the cure or w/e you call it is developed from Rikas blood and Irie calls her the Queen carrier, dont know how else to explain it.

On the other hand it could be just coincidence, then Hanyuu might be lieing?
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Old 2009-06-15, 11:08   Link #1062
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No, they only used Rika to pin point the pathogen, thinking it would be "better" as the queen carrier (coincidence or placebo effect, whichever you prefer)
But the living L5 samples were the true stepstone for their research. Even now, you can see that Rika isn't used as much as before for the whole sampling matter.

The anime IS an adaptation even if it lacks of many scenes. The story is the same, so it is useless to declare that "the answer is different". The anime just went straight to the point, but it is the same plot.

And what about Hanyuu anyway? She never stated anything regarding the queen carrier stuff, only about the whole belief in Oyashiro.
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Old 2009-06-15, 11:12   Link #1063
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Well she together with Rika want to stop the tragedy to happen. What if there is no tragedy at all and that its all something different?

In this last Rei world there is no locked up Satoshi or Takano. What if Rika simply got killed by accident (like by that truck) and Hanyuu simply took Rika back in time to stop this from happening but messed up in a way that events changed and that Hanyuu actualy is the cause of it all. That thats the reason that she always apologizes for everything.

(doesnt everyone want to save a friend from dieing if they could go back in time?)
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Old 2009-06-15, 12:19   Link #1064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca12nag3 View Post
Well she together with Rika want to stop the tragedy to happen. What if there is no tragedy at all and that its all something different?
You are mistaking quite few things:
1) Rika doesn't know about the disaster
2) Hanyuu's objective is to free Rika from this endless deadlock that always concludes with Rika's death.

It is completely unrelated to the hinamizawa disaster, even if it is the consequence of Rika's death in most cases.
Quote:
In this last Rei world there is no locked up Satoshi or Takano. What if Rika simply got killed by accident (like by that truck) and Hanyuu simply took Rika back in time to stop this from happening but messed up in a way that events changed and that Hanyuu actualy is the cause of it all. That thats the reason that she always apologizes for everything.

(doesnt everyone want to save a friend from dieing if they could go back in time?)
Unrelated to the matter. Watch the last saikoroshi episode when it is subbed to understand what hanyuu tried to do.

And no, that world isn't the original at all. Takano and all her madness is a "certainty" that happens 99,99% of the time. Hanyuu apologies because she believes she is powerless despite being a goddess, that's why she apologize to those who are under the syndrome, even if it is actually worsening the matter.
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Old 2009-06-15, 12:26   Link #1065
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way too many off questions, hanyuu never resets time, she can stop it at best. but yeah, first follow klashikari's advice as you are letting the red herrings from the anime misguide you.
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Old 2009-06-15, 12:56   Link #1066
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Wonder if there is any relation between the worlds at all exept the characters ofcorse. Anyways red herrings from the anime? You meen the anime adoptions to make for a better anime for general public?
Could be yes well i dont play to many of higurashi games. Looking at the anime some things just are off and contradictional.
To make these line up is hard itself. True the 48 hours wont add up in the arc were Keiichi is stabbed. Its not that i want to mix up things but hey higurashi is a complex story so not all is easy to explain. Even if what you say is so that the disease is not eased by an incarnation of Oyashiro then why relive the same world over and over unless its to some other end?

Also in order to theorize or at any lvl want to understand the true purpose of Rika reliving the same month you got to think about consequences and what happend the very first time. And that will eventualy need one to asume things that never was put in games/anime/manga at all maybe it will some day.
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Old 2009-06-15, 13:01   Link #1067
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Why are you associating the syndrome with that?

These are NOT linked, that's all.
Hanyuu wishes to free Rika's from her endless june, that's why they travel through worlds all the time, so Rika can find the reason for this and to counteract that.

Of course, the syndrome has a very big impact on her wish, because it always affect one of her friends, and indirectly cause her own demise, thanks to Takano.
But again, the fact there is that syndrome has NO direct link with the whole concept of Oyashiro.
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Old 2009-06-15, 13:10   Link #1068
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Im not saying at all that its linked or whatever. Pff making it hard to say anything at all without feeling a hammer slamming on whatever i say.

I dont know were this is going at all. All i want to find out is were it started and how it should be. And some things dont add up like you said before about the disease. So i ask why would Hanyuu pick or chose Rika to go back with in the first place? In any case some people have already died or disapeared.

Also if there is no disease development its not bad if Rika dies life goes on then just without her. It would only be different i guess if Hanyuu were linked to the present reincarnation of Oyashiro, that if Rika dies she dies too. But i dont recall that being the case.

Last edited by Ca12nag3; 2009-06-15 at 13:23.
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Old 2009-06-15, 14:26   Link #1069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca12nag3 View Post
So i ask why would Hanyuu pick or chose Rika to go back with in the first place?
Who else could she choose? Rika is the only one she can talk to so picking someone else wouldn't do much good.

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Also if there is no disease development its not bad if Rika dies life goes on then just without her. It would only be different i guess if Hanyuu were linked to the present reincarnation of Oyashiro, that if Rika dies she dies too. But i dont recall that being the case.
Okay, let me ask you something. If you had the power to save someone's life, would you use it to safe your best friend who died in an accident?

Rika and Hanyuu are very close. In fact, the first thing Rika saw when she was born was not her mother but Hanyuu instead. Rika's mother has always denied the existence of her daughter's 'imaginary friend' so Rika began to distance herself from her. For Rika, Hanyuu is more of a mother than her real mother has ever been. As for Hanyuu, she wandered around Hinamizawa for more than 1000 years waiting for the birth of her reincarnation (read this post). She lived a life of solitude during all those years so you can imagine how happy she was when someone who could actually see and talk to her was born.
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Old 2009-06-15, 14:44   Link #1070
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So its about Hanyuu not wanting to be alone then. Cause if there is no real connection with the disease then its about Hanyuu saving her only friend.

Basicaly the massacre of Hinamiziwa is only Takano's coverup for killing Rika.
And the entire queen thing is in Takano's head and has nothing to do with reality then?

Still leaves dr Irie who sees her as the queen, after all hes a scientist so he should see a difference in behavior with a disease if there is any. Like a different form of the same parasite or whatever it is. And he makes a vaccin out of it. At least thats what hes developing and using on Satoko and when Takanos main suporter dies the board calls back the team cause its done its mission and there is no need to investigate the curse thing.

Its all realy contradicting if the one is true the other is false.
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Old 2009-06-15, 16:17   Link #1071
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It's incorrect to say that "Basicaly the massacre of Hinamiziwa is only Takano's coverup for killing Rika."

Takano wants to ruin the people who mocked her grandfather.
She's trying to do that by manipulating them into massacring Hinamizawa.
To do that, she's killing Rika.

Irie is a scientist, but he's not perfect. They're still researching the disease. Also, he made the mistake of putting too much faith into Dr. Takano's hypothesis.
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Old 2009-06-15, 16:30   Link #1072
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Perhaps i put it wrong. The massacre is to get rid of the villagers who are *suposed* to go insane after the Queen dies. Not only Irie is putting his faith in the hypothesis so do the board directors or whatever you call them. As in the Queen theory they have.

And when someone like Keiichi, Rena or Satoko survived it proves that you dont need a Queen feramon to not go insane.

the 1 thing that is a threat to the village is Takano if shes not there, there would not be a massacre. So in essence it would not be good or bad if Rika died.
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Old 2009-06-15, 16:46   Link #1073
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It seems that Dr. Irie did discover a pathogen of some kind that is native to Hinamizawa based on his examination of one of those infected. It is unclear if the cure can only be derived from a sample from Rika, or if that was just the first one (perhaps only one) they tried due to Takano's carrier/queen theory. Takano's grandfather's theory is based on cases from the Second World War involving soldiers from Hinamizawa that went crazy.

It is unknown if this was a real pathogen, or just something else that no one had ever seen before in the brain. It is also unknown if the disease is really a disease or just a particular kind of mental disorder. Simply put, Dr. Irie doesn't have enough sample cases to work with, even though he has found some form of cure. Again he has a very limited group of test subjects (three if I recall), and I suppose no control. He's also only known to have used one test subject for the cure (Rika) and only one patient that has recovered (Satoko). Satoko's shots would not be a placebo exactly, since Satoko doesn't know why she's taking them (she was told they were vitamin shots). Unless it is a placedo for Rika to make her think she's done something for Satoko and keep her nearby for Takano/Irie.
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Old 2009-06-15, 17:52   Link #1074
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As for why they act, see http://crfh.net/d/19990302.html
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Old 2009-06-15, 17:53   Link #1075
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Irie disected the dead director of the first *curse* case and came with no results, after that he had the purpetrator disected and did find something. Then he had Satoshi who showed the same symptoms as the guy he had alive on the table. After this he had Sotoko. Then he uses Rika to develope a cure/vaccin.

In any case they were working at the location for a while now, at the hand of dr. Takano's research so prolly taking blood samples as if they were just doctors doing their regular checkups. So its reasonable that they already had a large amount of data.
Specialy since they work for the military they should bring in results. Irie wants to make a cure so Satoko falling ill prolly gave him that extra spark to work harder at it. Producing that vaccin shot. He also said he wasnt sure if it ever worked but Rika convinced him to use it as if it were a piece of herself for Satoko.*anime* And it seemed to work.
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Old 2009-06-16, 04:07   Link #1076
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What your saying would match the Rei story line exept for 1 key thing. Rika's mom said shes the incarnation and that Rika would be the next one after she passes away. So if the desease/curse is real is unknown but the reincarnation is true.
Actually Rika's mother doesn't say that Rika will be the next reincarnation; that was a mistranslation by ASR​_Kurou (who seem to have been simply guessing what the dialogue meant in a number of points).

But Rika's mother does say that she is the reincarnation. That doesn't prove anything supernatural exists though; after all Rika's mother never displays any supernatural powers. That could simply be seen as a local village legend that simply triggers Rika's insanity and makes her target her mother.
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Old 2009-06-16, 04:14   Link #1077
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Wouldn't that drive you crazy. 100+ years as the Reincarnation and then your own mom steals your job just as you had gotten a handle on everything.
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Old 2009-06-16, 04:17   Link #1078
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I ment (Rikas mom is saying that she herself is the reincarnation) i didnt say that she said her daughter is. And that Rika would be the next can just be extrapolated from the female line of incarnations that passes thrue generations.

A sidemark to make is that Rika never heard from her mother about this incarnation stuff and that her mom tells her exactly the same thing as she knows from experience. Also her mom is a bit secretive about it.

True about the local legend, and as there is no sign in this particular world of a disease one could asume its the real world?
Tho Keiichi, Irie and Takano arnt there, well at least not in the village.

Difficult ^^
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Old 2009-06-16, 04:22   Link #1079
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Wouldn't that drive you crazy. 100+ years as the Reincarnation and then your own mom steals your job just as you had gotten a handle on everything.
I suppose that makes sense. Rika is suffering from schizophrenia with delusions that she's the reincarnation of a god and that she has existed for over 100 years. Her mother informs her that actually she's the reincarnation and Rika responds by killing her.

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I ment (Rikas mom is saying that she herself is the reincarnation) i didnt say that she said her daughter is. And that Rika would be the next can just be extrapolated from the female line of incarnations that passes thrue generations.
According to the game, there's only one reincarnation. Her daughter would never become the reincarnation (or anyone else for that matter).

Quote:
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A sidemark to make is that Rika never heard from her mother about this incarnation stuff and that her mom tells her exactly the same thing as she knows from experience. Also her mom is a bit secretive about it.
Perhaps Rika learnt about the reincarnation stuff from reading those old temple documents and then simply hallucinated that the imaginary friend she calls "Hanyuu" told her that.
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Old 2009-06-16, 07:59   Link #1080
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From a normal point of view you'd say Rika suffers from multi personality disorder. Between her Nipaa self and her 100+ years self. From Rei point of view she'd wish to be friends with everyone while clearly shes not.

But this all is only when you consider that world to be the real one!
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