AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Gundam

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2006-10-12, 10:30   Link #1
kaito-kid
As I make you stop, think
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Europe - The Netherlands
Age: 25
Is the science fiction in the Gundam universe realistic?

There are a lot of science-fiction concepts used in the various Gundam anime. Would you consider them realistic - as in something that could easily happen in the future as opposed to other anime that are set in the future and use ridiculous concepts that could never possibly happen?
kaito-kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 10:37   Link #2
Sekreteraren
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
The concept itself of twenty meters tall robots with pretty colors and ornaments being a practical, even superior, weapon destroys any attempts at realism on a technical level.
Sekreteraren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 10:58   Link #3
Ansa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Laser Weaponry? - Very Possible

Mobile Suits? - Unlikely at least how they are presented in Gundam, frankly I can imagen much smaller mechs in gundam design but not as big as they are in the Gundam series.

Gundams? - No way possible

Coordianators? - highly possible, very human like and to a point there are people who are already trying (and to a small point succeding) in creating humans with special traits. law and Order has done several episode exploring such issues with genes and the like.

Space Colonies? - Eventually yes but not for quite awhile

EARTH Government? - uh... Never going to happen.

SEED? - next step in human evolution is possible but SEED will likely never be real, not to mention that SEED is just an excuse for Kira/Athrun/Shinn/Cagalli to kick ass.

Newtype - psychic abilties on those levels are hard to foresee in the near future, there are some psychic abilities already but you can hardly have enough abiltiy to use something like DRAGOON's any time soon, if ever.



The Most realistic Mech series is pretty much Full Metal Panic, at least when it comes to mech design, well beside the Lamda Driver and Arbalest anyway...
Ansa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 11:32   Link #4
SuperAsuradaGundam
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
Send a message via AIM to SuperAsuradaGundam
My take:

Mech robots can happen, but probably unlikely on the scale of Gundam

Space colonies can happen, along with laser projectiles

A World Gov't can happen, but it won't last for long

Coordinatiors has the potential to happen, altough there would be strong opposition to this, and the SEED & Newtype concepts would most likely not happen unless you believe in the unexplained.

Also, Gundam was one of the first anime to have a sense of realism in it, especially for a sci-fi mech anime, so some ideas from the anime could happen in reality (the Helium-3 fuel and the minosky particles (sorry if I mispelled), but time will tell if we would really see them.
SuperAsuradaGundam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 12:36   Link #5
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Age: 30
The colonies in UC Gundam are quite possible and based on the O'Neill Cylinder design. Plasma based weaponry doesn't seem too far out of the question. Positron weapons, on the other hand, would probably destroy themselves or not make it very far except in space.

Helium-3 is a fusion reaction that has been researched, but it's not the best one. Deuterium+Tritium fusion has a better cross-section (basically, the likelyhood of the reaction happening) relative to the Coulomb scattering cross-section.

One of the biggest and most consistent impossibilities in Gundam is the seeming depiction of constant thrust = constant velocity in space.
Scorch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 13:10   Link #6
T.V.
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Delft, the Netherlands
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekreteraren View Post
The concept itself of twenty meters tall robots with pretty colors and ornaments being a practical, even superior, weapon destroys any attempts at realism on a technical level.
Not to mention them being piloted by humans...

With the kind of accelerations those machines make, more than 30 - 40 Gs based on the anime, it would turn the pilots into applesauce...
That's forgoing the fact that those machines would probably collapse under their own weight and would be impossible to control with ancient Mechwarrior style joysticks and handles.

Even today, the fighter aircraft are starting to surpass the Gundam cockpits in terms of ergonomics and control interfaces.

Liquid suspended pilots with a direct nervous system control link, like in Evangelion and Raxephon are probably more scientifically correct, because the level of technology needed to build those fast and large agile behemoths would be in an age were robotics would be more and more organic looking in nature.

Quite simply, Gundam is steampunk science fiction, just like Star Trek (of the '60s) and Jules Verne stories.
T.V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 13:50   Link #7
solomon
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.V. View Post
Quite simply, Gundam is steampunk science fiction, just like Star Trek (of the '60s) and Jules Verne stories.
Ioono, i understand that at least half of the concepts we see aren't plausible, but i thought steampunk was something totally different from anything i've seen an any mech show.
solomon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 14:23   Link #8
Knightmare213
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I agree with most of the things that were said from other people, but to add the un-realism of the entire Gundam Universes (which includes Wing, G-Gundam, Turn-A and CE), is that sound cannot be heard in space.

Physics 101: Sound travels from one end to the other by traveling in the air vibration. In space, there is no air. Therefore, no sound can travel from one end to the other.

Looking at other sci-fi series such as Battlestar Galactica, when a space fighter fires its guns or one of the battleships (battlestars in the series), fires its large bow guns, the firing ambience is muffled. When a nuclear warhead goes off, there is no boom, but a muffled explosion accompanied by a large fireball.

Sure, it does go against what I just said above. But in a science-fiction series, you need some dramatic sound effects to make it more interesting.
Knightmare213 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 15:04   Link #9
T.V.
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Delft, the Netherlands
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Ioono, i understand that at least half of the concepts we see aren't plausible, but i thought steampunk was something totally different from anything i've seen an any mech show.
Technically "steampunk" is used to describe Jules Vernian Industrial Age set science fiction.

It's about technologies that couldn't concievably coexist.
For example, you need to invent the wheel, before you can invent a horse drawn carriage, and likewise, the invention of the combustion engine, is required to invent the airplane.
That's why I use the term on other types of science fiction that have a skewed tech tree.

For example, Star Trek TOS (with Kirk) has Warp drives, fasers, etc. But the computers and control interfaces are very much 1960s based.
Heck. Our current mobile phones are more advanced then their communicators!

That kind of technological skewing is invetable, since writers can't foresee everything, but it's what makes sci-fi often "steampunk" in nature.

Next to Gundam, Macross is another example, while it's probably one of the smallest tech skewing 'purpetrators'.
The VF-1 Valkyries look and operate much like '80s jets in their jet mode.
Current designs are surpassing the supposedly more advanced Valkyries in several fronts, such as aerodynamics, control interface and A.I/hardware/software intergration.

Some examples are ofcourse more readily apparent than others.
T.V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 16:03   Link #10
HEDGESMFG
Fansubber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Gundam will never become reality in the precise way that it's shown. It's merely a work of fiction and it takes several stylistic departures from conventional reality for a number of different reasons...


But the universe is complex and well written enough that one can at least find it to be a believable alternate reality of sorts. Mobile Suit/mecha technology aren't yet practical in our own world the way they're shown in Gundam... but Gundam occurs after several centuries of our own history in a world that, while somewhat similar, is still notably different than ours. There were a number of factors that led to MS development in the Gundam universe that are unlikely to occur in our own timeline, but make sense within the context of the world itself. Mobile suits were endlessly useful for construction and development in space.

In short, while a far cry from our current world, UC Gundam is still one of the more sound science fiction universes that I've come across in the past several decades. Don't take it all too seriously, but don't needlessly bash those who enjoy the things Gundam has done well. (Something I've seen happen all too often, I'm afraid.)
HEDGESMFG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 16:32   Link #11
Mr_Paper
Hmm...
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Looking for his book...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansa View Post
The Most realistic Mech series is pretty much Full Metal Panic, at least when it comes to mech design, well beside the Lamda Driver and Arbalest anyway...
You've never seen Patlabor, have you?

Anyway, may of the science fiction concepts use in Gundam series are realistic engouh that they can be seen as somewhat believable. They are based, usually, on known science and technology and extrapolated with a healthy dose of imagination and creative license. Granted, the fact that it is described as 'science fiction' rather than 'science fact' is the most noteworthy indicator of how realistic they need to be in their presentation and depiction of technology.
Mr_Paper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 17:36   Link #12
McChar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
I think any science fiction work sets its own technological rules that describe the fictional setting. These rules are either close extrapolations of current science and technology, or they are purely fictional gimmicks or REALLY tenuous extrapolations like light speed or wormholes. The latter kind have to be taken as assumptions or else the audience doesnt suspend disbelief.

So if you want to relatively define realistic science-fiction by how FEW of the latter, totally out-there assumptions there are, I think most Gundam series are actually pretty good at that. I think a lot of people underestimate that.

It's one of the reasons why I like UC, basically the only major out-of-nowhere assumptions are Minovsky particles/physics and Newtypes. Although I think Newtypes as an idea is just a gimmick to make the story interesting, Minovsky particles actually play a part in 'explaining' a lot of the technical backstory, for instance by negating radar and any non-visible EM, so no guided weaponry, etc. Everything builds on that, and is pretty consistent throughout. Basically UC Gundam seems to go to greater lengths to make giant armored robots make at least some kind of sense.

I think there was a mecha designer who redrew all of the UC OYW MS so that they would be as realistic as possible. They're not even bipedal anymore. I mean, how realistic is that?
McChar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 20:13   Link #13
M_Flores
Count of Monte Dorifto
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Isla De Monte Dorifto
Send a message via MSN to M_Flores
Not like its EVER gonna happen, but I've always wanted Phase Shift to be real - at least to install on a car, lol. And maybe after images too
M_Flores is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 20:50   Link #14
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 29
Didn't Tomino get his inspiration from the mecha in Starship troopers (Which technically inspired alot of stuff)

In Starship troopers the Mobile Infantry are equipped with powersuits that are dropped in from orbit (Much like in Halo 2 the HellJumpers) into enemy terrority for attack. Each trooper is literally a one-man tank with weaponry ranging from flamethrowers to actual small tactical nuclear weaponry.

Having giant robots (ranging from 15-20m) is realistically impossible, especially in gravity environments. I suppose space or aquatic combat but then again they'd be more power suits or something like from Aliens 2.

Ask any biologist, they know.


I see the concepts from Starship troopers alot more realistic than from anything else.

Quote:
Not like its EVER gonna happen, but I've always wanted Phase Shift to be real - at least to install on a car, lol. And maybe after images too
I read an article about the US military developing(or design) a powersuit equipped with something similar to Transphase shift armor. The armor senses a projectile and hardens prior to impact. The idea is to reduce the damage inflicted by a bullet. Of course it's all conceptual.
SoldierOfDarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-12, 23:04   Link #15
McChar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Here's a link
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/...042104.00.html

liquid armor which becomes rigid during an impact... which by definition is a change in phase. No color changes and stock SF sound though
McChar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-13, 00:20   Link #16
RX-78GP04G Gerbera
Whoosh!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Albany
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to RX-78GP04G Gerbera Send a message via MSN to RX-78GP04G Gerbera Send a message via Yahoo to RX-78GP04G Gerbera
reply

Meh...I guess it's a mixture of realism and sci-fi to me.
__________________
"I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet
"Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning
"Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon
RX-78GP04G Gerbera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-13, 01:43   Link #17
Renegade334
Exitus Acta Probat
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Permanent retirement from raws-hunting
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
I read an article about the US military developing(or design) a powersuit equipped with something similar to Transphase shift armor. The armor senses a projectile and hardens prior to impact. The idea is to reduce the damage inflicted by a bullet. Of course it's all conceptual.
Actually, that's part of the Future Force Warrior combat suit's exoskeleton and it involves organic chemistry and whatnot - not metallurgy. However, the British recently developed an experimental armor for tanks (something also studied by the U.S. for what will possibly succeed the Future Combat System). It's called the 'Electrically charged armor' and is developed by the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory in the UK - the vehicle is outfitted with two thin shells with, in between, an insulating shroud. The outer shell holds an important electrical charge, while the other one is in contact with the ground. If an enemy warhead forces the two shells to yield and enter in contact with each other despite the insulating material, it will establish an electric bridge between the aforementioned shells and produce a discharge that disrupts the warhead's focused jet of incandescent gasses. It's not far from perfect but I've heard they had very promising results - and it might replace, in the far future, the rolled homogenous armor or even the slap-on reactive armor that a lot of tanks use nowadays.

The electrically charged armor is as far as you can get to the Trans Phase Shift Armor but even then the concept is not the same. Damage is still dealt to the armor and it's not a chip of paint off the flank like one'd see in CE.
__________________
<< -- Click to enter my GFX thread.

-- Permanently retired from the raw-hunting business --

Last edited by Renegade334; 2006-10-13 at 02:13.
Renegade334 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-13, 06:46   Link #18
Gattzu
Silent but Awesome
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Just gonna express my opinion on the matter, sci-fi is supposed to be unrealistic.
I dislike when people say that Mwu shouldnt have survived the transface cannon from the Minerva or whatever the hell it was. But guess what it is a sci-fi and a damned animé series at that, realy stuff shouldnt, because then a animé series would be very very dull.
This was an preemptiv strike against those who will complain about what I just wrote.
Gattzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-13, 06:57   Link #19
Knightmare213
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gattzu View Post
Just gonna express my opinion on the matter, sci-fi is supposed to be unrealistic.
I dislike when people say that Mwu shouldnt have survived the transface cannon from the Minerva or whatever the hell it was. But guess what it is a sci-fi and a damned animé series at that, realy stuff shouldnt, because then a animé series would be very very dull.
This was an preemptiv strike against those who will complain about what I just wrote.
But not to unrealistic. I suppose some sci-fi series can be plausible (like our dear Gundam series, both UC and Alternatives) but literally death-defying unrealistic? Nah...that's too far.

IMO, Mu should have died...well, when he lost his helmet in the SEED, then got it back in the Special Edition.

Anyway, between you and me, I think it's just a battle between what we want to see in a science-fiction. A complete science-FICTION and a science-fiction series with plausible thingamajigs and effects.
Knightmare213 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-10-13, 11:50   Link #20
kaito-kid
As I make you stop, think
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Europe - The Netherlands
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Flores View Post
Not like its EVER gonna happen, but I've always wanted Phase Shift to be real - at least to install on a car, lol. And maybe after images too
lol

from wiki:
Quote:
The PS armour was once claimed by the mechanical designer to be referenced from British army research program of ERA (Electric reactive armour).
kaito-kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.