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Old 2009-09-19, 16:36   Link #2161
Nagumo
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Personally, I regard track 09 (as rage inducing) as discontinuity. I don't like it at all.

I don't even particularly care for Lutecia but still, they seriously need a better reason (any reason is better than 'because she's obviously guilty and pleaded guilty) for exiling the poor girl.

I prefer to think that Megane is taking Lutecia home with her. Home where she'll get the counseling, education and happy mama-daughter time they missed out on.
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Old 2009-09-19, 16:41   Link #2162
DezoPenguin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Signum is an S-rank as well, and she got a happy live with everyone on earth. Though you may have a point with the altering of the sentence... but again, unless I hear a good explanation from canon itself, I'm hesitant to assume things like that.

And I can understand... I mean, its one S-rank you don't have to worry about needing to give a proper battle in the manga. They just... could have used a better excuse.
You know, if you think about it, Fate's better compared to the Numbers than she is to Lutecia. She's an artificially created experiment who no longer has anyone to look after her. And she's farther along than the Numbers are at the end of MGLN: she's already, after all, of her own free will gone into the Garden of Time and risked her life pitching in to help Nanoha and Yuuno against her mother's goons.

Of course, there's also the "who you know" factor there: Fate's guardian is Lindy rather than Genya. On the other hand, Sein, Deed, and Otto pretty much got plucked out of confinement by the Church, while there's some suggestion that the Nakajima sisters still are under some level of probationary control, so that tracks too...

When you get down to it, here's Lutecia's sentence (remembering that she's ten years old and has been held by an evil mad scientist since she was two): she goes and gets to live with her mom in a nice suburban home until she's eighteen or until she's deemed psychologically fit to rejoin society (an eminently logical restriction given the aforementioned "semi-brainwashed by Jail"). The only things she can't do are leave the planet or summon city-destroying giant bugs. By any real-world standard, that's a pretty darned light sentence for actively participating in multiple and extensive acts of terrorism against both private citizens and the government.
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Old 2009-09-19, 16:48   Link #2163
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Signum is an S-rank as well, and she got a happy live with everyone on earth.
Earth, not Mid.

Quote:
Though you may have a point with the altering of the sentence... but again, unless I hear a good explanation from canon itself, I'm hesitant to assume things like that.

And I can understand... I mean, its one S-rank you don't have to worry about needing to give a proper battle in the manga. They just... could have used a better excuse.
They really didn't need to mention "exile" if all they wanted was to get rid of her. They could have said she volunteered because:
1. a quiet, pastoral world was good for her mother's recovery;
2. the demands of a newly opened colony would find her talent in bug summoning most useful.
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Old 2009-09-19, 16:50   Link #2164
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Being send to what is, essentially, an abandoned planet kind of sounds golden cage-like to me though. Especially in light of the other participants of the crime not being given similar punishments. Even Cinque's so-called life sentence apparently didn't last long, so I'm hoping they're going to give some canon info on that soon. Obviously by SSX she is allowed to receive visitors again as Agito visits her, so there certainly has been some lightening of her punishment at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Earth, not Mid.
A planet of choice, not one of punishment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
They really didn't need to mention "exile" if all they wanted was to get rid of her. They could have said she volunteered because:
1. a quiet, pastoral world was good for her mother's recovery;
2. the demands of a newly opened colony would find her talent in bug summoning most useful.
Yeah, both of those would have sounded much better than what they did now.
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Old 2009-09-19, 17:44   Link #2165
Nagumo
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Nagumo
24 – Aozora
24 – Blue Sky

Fate: And after that, the quiet days until the day of Mobile Six’s graduation and the eventful days that soon followed after, are still fresh in my memories. Memories such as the very intense 24 minute mock battle on graduation. Though Mobile Six’s members are scattered to other places, but under these blue skies, I think to myself that not one will ever forget those days as long as (no matter where) they live.
Nanoha: Fate-chan!
Vivio: Fate-mama!
Fate: Yes, wait for me! I just need to finish up writing this email. Today is a day off, so I’m going for a little trip/walk with Nanoha and Vivio. I’m sure everyone is busy and find it hard to make time to plan/organize our class reunion, but let’s definitely make it happen. Our class reunion plan committee president Shari is doing her best. As the secretary/organizer for the reunion plan committee, let’s all do our best. Until next time. Fate Testarossa Harlaown. Send to Subaru. Sorry for the wait!
Vivio: Fate-mama, are you done with your email?
Fate: Yup, done and over with.
Nanoha: Well then, let’s go Fate-chan.
Fate: Yes, Nanoha.
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Old 2009-09-19, 18:00   Link #2166
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Being send to what is, essentially, an abandoned planet kind of sounds golden cage-like to me though.
It's not abandoned, it's new. And as Agito's visit showed, it's not even that cut off from the rest of civilisation. They've even got an airport and all...

Quote:
Especially in light of the other participants of the crime not being given similar punishments. Even Cinque's so-called life sentence apparently didn't last long, so I'm hoping they're going to give some canon info on that soon. Obviously by SSX she is allowed to receive visitors again as Agito visits her, so there certainly has been some lightening of her punishment at least.
She just said she'd have to stay there, not that she couldn't get visitors.



Quote:
A planet of choice, not one of punishment.
A choice that happens not to be full of Midchildans. In fact, they may care about Earth even less than they do a world that colonised by their own people. There's also the fact tha Lu isn't serving with the TSAB.
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Old 2009-09-19, 18:18   Link #2167
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It's not abandoned, it's new. And as Agito's visit showed, it's not even that cut off from the rest of civilisation. They've even got an airport and all...
According to Lutecia it's an 'in progress terraforming planet.' meaning its not even completed. It's like sending someone off to a new colony. Sure, there's going to be a few buildings and an airport for the equipment... but how many friends is Lutecia going to make there? Hence the 'golden cage.' It's a luxurious prison... but its still a prison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
She just said she'd have to stay there, not that she couldn't get visitors.
Lutecia: AndÖ Mother will be able to leave the planet any time she wants, but I donít think I can ever leave it until Iím an adult or older. It might be that Iíll never be able leave the planet. I donít know when weíll ever meet like this againÖ Sorry I didnít tell you.

'I don't know when we'll ever meet like this again' is not a line you use when you are allowed to receive visitors.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
A choice that happens not to be full of Midchildans.
But still a choice, and that's my point. Lutecia didn't get any choice in the matter, while the Wolkenritter did, despite having a crime record several decades bigger.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
There's also the fact tha Lu isn't serving with the TSAB.
Neither are Otto, Deed and Sein. But this does make me wonder... did Lutecia get a choice in this? I'd imagine her to serve in the bureau and stay closer to Erio and Caro, or the numbers if she had a choice.
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Old 2009-09-19, 18:18   Link #2168
prescience
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It's not abandoned, it's new. And as Agito's visit showed, it's not even that cut off from the rest of civilisation. They've even got an airport and all...
"Here you go, Lulu... a shiny brand-new planet just for you and your mom."
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Old 2009-09-19, 18:35   Link #2169
Nagumo
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
According to Lutecia it's an 'in progress terraforming planet.' meaning its not even completed. It's like sending someone off to a new colony. Sure, there's going to be a few buildings and an airport for the equipment... but how many friends is Lutecia going to make there? Hence the 'golden cage.' It's a luxurious prison... but its still a prison.
Not a minor quibble but my translation of ' in progress terrforming planet' is a mite misleading.

She says 'terraformed planet' in the track. But I remembered the track in SSX where Agito comments it's an 'in progress terraforming planet'. So I used 'in progress terraforming planet'.

Not that it makes the exile any better or worse. But if I had happened to listen to this before SSX, I would have simply written 'terraformed planet'.
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Old 2009-09-19, 18:44   Link #2170
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
According to Lutecia it's an 'in progress terraforming planet.' meaning its not even completed.
It looked pretty damn hospitable to me, though. "In progress" could mean anything, including "they've already got one continent done, it's just like home". Of course, it could also mean "They haven't finished the atmosphere, so we can't go out" - but we already know it's not like that.

Quote:
It's like sending someone off to a new colony.
It's exactly what it is. Minus the backbreaking labor.

Quote:
Sure, there's going to be a few buildings and an airport for the equipment... but how many friends is Lutecia going to make there?
That depends on how they colonise new planets. They don't seem to just drop a few hundred colonists with some equipment and leave them to their own devices, so already it could have been worse. It could be there are small towns already. I'm a city boy, but even I can think of worse fates than having to live in the countryside.

Quote:
Hence the 'golden cage.' It's a luxurious prison... but its still a prison.
Well, yes. She has to stay on one planet. (So do we, for that matter...) We don't know that the Numbers are free to go where they will, either - just that they're on Mid.

Quote:
Lutecia: And… Mother will be able to leave the planet any time she wants, but I don’t think I can ever leave it until I’m an adult or older. It might be that I’ll never be able leave the planet. I don’t know when we’ll ever meet like this again… Sorry I didn’t tell you.

'I don't know when we'll ever meet like this again' is not a line you use when you are allowed to receive visitors.
She could assume neither Erio nor Caro will want to go all the way out there just to meet her.

Quote:
But still a choice, and that's my point. Lutecia didn't get any choice in the matter, while the Wolkenritter did, despite having a crime record several decades bigger.
Decades?

Besides, all the Wolkies did was assault a few officers. And release a Relic on an unadministered world. Lu did the same on Mid, what with helping with the cradle and all. Oh, and let's add kidnapping of a minor to her charges.


Quote:
Neither are Otto, Deed and Sein.
They're serving with the Church. Same difference.

Quote:
But this does make me wonder... did Lutecia get a choice in this? I'd imagine her to serve in the bureau and stay closer to Erio and Caro, or the numbers if she had a choice.
Not necessarily. It'd depend on what her mother would say.
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Old 2009-09-19, 19:53   Link #2171
Nagumo
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(Super Gelman… Zankuto = Sankt)
11 - Zankuto - Hirude Mahou Gakuin
11 – Sankt Hilde Magic School/Academy

Nanoha: Oh, Sister Schach!
Vivio: Good afternoon!
Schach: Nanoha-san, Vivio. Good afternoon.
Nanoha: Thank you for your time.
Vivio: Thank you very much.
Schach: Oh not at all. Well then, let’s begin. Welcome to the Belka Saint King (Sankt Kaiser) Church affliated traditional mission school Sankt Hilde Magic School/Academy. The premises/campus is like this and it happens to be break time, so the students are energetic as usual.
Girl: Oh Sister, good day.
Boy: Good day.
Schach: Thank you, good day.
Vivio: Wow, lots of kids.
Nanoha: Everyone’s about the same age as you.
Schach: If you enter this school, they might become your friends. Would you like to talk to them for a bit?
Vivio: Yes!
Schach: Everyone, may I have your attention please?
All: Oh?
Schach: There’s a girl who might be coming to school here next year. If there’s anyone with time, could you talk to her?
All: Yes!
Nanoha: Go ahead Vivio.
Vivio: Yeah. Good afternoon.
Girl: Good day.
Boy: What’s your name?
Vivio: I’m Takamichi Vivio.
Schach: Is something wrong?
Nanoha: Oh nothing, it’s the first time she’s met children but she’s not shy/afraid at all.
Girl: So your name is Vivio (hard to hear)
Vivio: Yup.
Girl: Is that woman, Vivio’s mom?
Vivio: Yup.
Schach: Well they are fellow children.
Girl: Here’s a classroom. Over there is the magic practice room.
Boy: Would you like to go to see it?
Vivio: Is it okay? Sister Schach, can I go and see it?
Schach: Yes, please go ahead.
Nanoha: Sorry everyone, please take care of her.
All: Yes!
Schach: We’ll be touring the school grounds, let’s meet up at the lobby later.
Vivio: Okay!

Schach: Primary school is five years, middle/secondary school is three years and after two years as a probationary/provisional member she can attend high/senior/advanced classes. It’s basically an escalator school but it’s possible to skip grades. If she genuinely wishes to continue serious studies, she can earn a bachelor degree (alt: earn a university degree).
Nanoha: I see.
Schach: Oh, it’s a message from Carim. Please excuse me.
Nanoha: Please do.
Carim: Schach, are you at the school?
Schach: Yes, with Nanoha-san.
Carim: Oh Nanoha-san, good afternoon.
Nanoha: Hello, Knight Carim.
Carim: It’s about time for the break over there, and I was wondering how Nanoha-san and Vivio were doing, so I decided to call.
Nanoha: Thank you very much.
Schach: Vivio is being shown around the school by the students.
Carim: Vivio seems to become Nanoha-san’s child completely and has settled down. I’m sure there will be no trouble with school.
Nanoha: I sure hope so.
Carim: I, Schach and Rossa, though we went at different times, studied at this school. The learning environment is quite good.
Nanoha: Yes.
Schach: Because it’s a mission school, she’ll end up using Church style manners/etiquette.
Nanoha: That applies/true of any world/place.
Carim: That’s true.

Vivio: Well everyone, thank you.
Girl: Bye bye Vivio.
Girl 1: Have a nice day
Vivio: Have a nice day.
Schach: Didn’t I tell you.
Vivio: Sister Schach too, thank you very much.
Schach: You’re welcome.

Nanoha: Vivio, what did you think? Do you think you’ll be alright studying magic at that school?
Vivio: Yes, actually, I want to study there!
Nanoha: I see, and it seems you can make lots of friends over there too.
Vivio: Un.
Nanoha: When Vivio goes to school, Mama’s going to become lonely.
Vivio: Mama’s a good girl, so she’ll be fine.
Nanoha: Hahaha!
Vivio: Vivio’s going to study lots and learn lots of magic! And then one day, Vivio’s going to protect Mama!
Nanoha: I see, I’ll look forward to it.
Vivio: Un.
Nanoha: Well, we still have half a year until you become a first year and I have a three day break coming up. So during this break, let’s play a lot!
Vivio: YEAH!
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Old 2009-09-19, 21:57   Link #2172
Nagumo
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Further information on the exile/colony thing.

Here is the pertinent information from SSX CD2, track 02 about it. In Japanese

しかしやっぱり…ここはいいとこだなー。

犯罪者の流刑地には思えない?

そう言うコトじゃなくて、流刑地でもねーだろ、単に無人で、開発中の世界ってだけで。

Agito: You know, this place is really great/nice.
Lutecia: You mean you can’t see/imagine that it’s a penal colony?
Agito: That’s not I mean. It’s not a penal colony. It’s a world/place that simply has few people and is currently being adapted and developed
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Old 2009-09-19, 23:01   Link #2173
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...so she gets the Australia treatment. It's still exile.
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Old 2009-09-20, 00:00   Link #2174
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*is imagining Lutecia greeting people by saying "G'day, mate,"*
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Old 2009-09-20, 01:57   Link #2175
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Where's Hugh Jackman?
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Old 2009-09-20, 03:27   Link #2176
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Well, yes. She has to stay on one planet. (So do we, for that matter...) We don't know that the Numbers are free to go where they will, either - just that they're on Mid.
By the time of Vivid, the numbers seem to be able to go wherever they want unsupervised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
She could assume neither Erio nor Caro will want to go all the way out there just to meet her.
I don't really see how that line implies that.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Decades?

Besides, all the Wolkies did was assault a few officers. And release a Relic on an unadministered world. Lu did the same on Mid, what with helping with the cradle and all. Oh, and let's add kidnapping of a minor to her charges.
Yes. Decades. I could say centuries, but that wouldn't really be accurate since the TSAB has only existed for 150 years, so the Wolkenritter wouldn't have had a criminal record with them before that. After all, you must remember that the Book of Darkness has been around for centuries, and was one of the most famous Lost Logia prior to Hayate. Add to that the fact that prior to Hayate, the Wolkies weren't really implementing a 'no kill' policy, and you can see where I'm going. The Wolkenritter's record stretches back loooong before Lutecia, yet their punishment was by comparison much lighter.

That's really my whole beef with Lutecia's punishment. She is the only one out of the entire cast of redeemed villains in all of Nanoha that got exiled. No other redeemed villain got a punishment as heavy as Lutecia's. Now sorry, but that just screams 'plot device' to me, and one they could have done better.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
They're serving with the Church. Same difference.
Serving with the Church does is hardly the same as serving with the TSAB.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Not necessarily. It'd depend on what her mother would say.
*tilts head* How so?

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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
*is imagining Lutecia greeting people by saying "G'day, mate,"*
*snrk* Well, one good thing would come of it then, that's for sure.
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Old 2009-09-20, 03:37   Link #2177
MeisterBabylon
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*snrk* Well, one good thing would come of it then, that's for sure.
What? Like Erio has a big hunky dude come in from the ditch?
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Old 2009-09-20, 06:41   Link #2178
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
By the time of Vivid, the numbers seem to be able to go wherever they want supervised.
"Supervised" isn't the same as freedom.



Quote:
I don't really see how that line implies that.
It's an alternate explanation of why they wouldn't meet. After all, unless Mid has a policy of isolating its new colonies, what's keeping Erio and Caro from going there? They aren't criminals. They're free to go where they want.


Quote:
Serving with the Church does is hardly the same as serving with the TSAB.
It is in the sense that in both cases, they'll be monitored by armed forces.


Quote:
*tilts head* How so?
Sure, Lutecia would like to stay with Erio and Caro. But most of all, she wants to stay with her mom. And if her mom wants to get away from it all, including the service that betrayed her and left her for dead for ten years in the hands of a mad scientist, then it's off to "Australia" they go.
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Old 2009-09-20, 14:53   Link #2179
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
"Supervised" isn't the same as freedom.
Ah, sorry, typo. I meant unsupervised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It's an alternate explanation of why they wouldn't meet. After all, unless Mid has a policy of isolating its new colonies, what's keeping Erio and Caro from going there? They aren't criminals. They're free to go where they want.
And yet, that explanation can add more weight to Lutecia's punishment as well. She's not even allowed to receive visitors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It is in the sense that in both cases, they'll be monitored by armed forces.
Hmm, true. But it'd be like handing American criminals over to Europe for safekeeping. Quite odd.

Though I guess that shouldn't surprise me by now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Sure, Lutecia would like to stay with Erio and Caro. But most of all, she wants to stay with her mom. And if her mom wants to get away from it all, including the service that betrayed her and left her for dead for ten years in the hands of a mad scientist, then it's off to "Australia" they go.
Point. Do we have Megane's voice in this somewhere?
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Old 2009-09-20, 18:26   Link #2180
Nagumo
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(The TSAB Reforms… at least they’re implying some sort of reforms.)

07 - Kurono to Genya
07 – Chrono and Genya

Chrono: And with that, that is all for messages on this matter.
Genya: Ah, sorry to trouble you Admiral Chrono.
Chrono: No, not at all. The Combat Cyborg Case is now completely closed.
Genya: It seems so. That reminds me, what’s it like over there at HQ? (How’s HQ over there?)
Chrono: The crimes of/matter on Lieutenant General Regius is very serious and complicated in myriads of ways. But it seems that because of this (But it seems that by using this as fuel), they’ve decided to seriously review and move to implement reforms for all personnel at Central/Main World HQ and to TSAB operations.
Genya: I see.
Chrono: It would great if the Navy and Army start working better together (cooperating with each other better) because of this.
Genya: That’s difficult/a tall order.
Chrono: But it’ll change, even just a little.
Genya: Yeah. You know, working to stop worldwide plots to maintain peace. Ten years is really pushing it.
Chrono: That’s true.
Genya: It’s a miracle if it holds for twenty years, but fifty or a hundred is impossible. So, for the sake of the next generation and the sake of our children and grandchildrens’ generations’ future, we must cultivate and maintain our people/personnel and organization.
Chrono: Yes.
Genya: Well that’s what I talked about with your little sister and little lady Takamachi.
Chrono: Ahahah, is that so?
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