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Old 2007-02-08, 20:31   Link #101
Guardian Enzo
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I must say, I find myself ROTFLMAO when I see people saying "Les Miserables" it too depressing. Um...

Anyhoo - thought the first ep was pretty well done, although I agree there was a bit of a "kiddie" look to the art. Fact is, you're dealing with the greatest possible source material here - Les Mis is one of the greatest tragic scenarios in the history of fiction - so the potential for a strong series is there. Frankly, I thought the darkness of the story was pretty toned down in the first episode. My concern - Jean Valjean is very much the heart, soul and essence of LM. He's one of the finest fictional characters ever created - I hope he's not shunted into a secondary role here in the interests of making this a shoujo anime.

Last edited by Guardian Enzo; 2007-02-09 at 00:01.
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Old 2007-02-09, 08:05   Link #102
igalsfy
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i'm sick. i was waiting for some deep anime to try and recreate the atmosphere of the book. and they made it a kiddy 80's anime.
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Old 2007-02-09, 09:45   Link #103
nicomorr
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Amazed ...... judgements after 1 subbed & few raws!!!!

Amazed & taken aback. y'all is so quick to judgement ....

Wait & see peeps! Cossette is no minor character ( Hugo - seee Wikipedia as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Mis%C3%A9rables ) but the innocent heart of the whole.

Valjean may be the 'main man' but he is irretrievably compromised by his past & this is his tragedy. What we do lives on & haunts us - only an innocent Cossette can start anew. Hence Valjean taking her to his heart & under his wing.

I read the book ( 1200p. ) nearly 50 years ago when inspired ( briefly ) by the French Revolution ( school ) & Dickens 'Tale of Two Cities' ( fun ) ... forgot about it until last spring when watched a Canberra production for lords sake ( I live in UK ) .... was great http://www.canberratheatre.org.au/pa...ormance335.asp

Note that both WikiP & Canberra Arts Theatre show images of Cossette as the archetype ....... hah!

Note under psych 101 - innocence has the delicious corruptibility that adults lack ... something the Japanese understand very well & the West is bound by political correctness to ignore. I like this one for its possibilities.

My 2 cents ....

Regards,
Nico M
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Old 2007-02-10, 10:48   Link #104
questmark
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There's an odd sort of lack of anime history going on in the thread re: World Masterpiece Theater productions. Yes, they're "for the family", but by and large they're very solid productions, that always really focused on telling a good story, and not backing away from the difficulties of life, etc. etc. Of course, this is a new incarnation of WMT, so who knows. But based on other WMT shows, if you're going into this expecting super high quality animation or moe-fluff-fantasticness that would, at the least, not agree with their other productions.

Obviously, the shows's different than the book, but in general, I've found the older adaptations in WMT to be true to the heart and feeling of the book. They're obviously expanding Cosette's back story, taking their time, and what not, but that is also pretty regular for WMT productions, as is always running 52 eps. So far, by the descriptions being posted, it sounds like its not seriously deviating from the book, more ...adding to it. Until they do so though, and are obviously screwing up, I'd just have a little faith. WMT productions are often slow, gently building narratives, and are generally fantastic re: the story. I loved loved loved My Daddy Long Legs, and Peter Pan and Anne of Green Gables are also very good, and Future Boy Conan (which is almost a WMT production to me, if you know its history) is also great.

There's a lot of history pointing to the fact that this could be a good production, be gritty in many ways with a good story, have average animation quality, and yet still somehow be "family friendly". Obviously, the story isn't about Valjean, but rather Cosette-- which has little to do with the popularity of moe, IMO, and more to do with her being a person a child can relate to better. But I think if you're going to have issues with her being the main character, you're never going to like this show-- as that's obviously not going to change, and your love of a very good book is going to cloud your ability to enjoy this show as it's own, independent work. I'm not saying the show is bound to be good no matter what, but statistically, I've enjoyed most, if not all, of the WMT productions I've gotten to see fansubbed, some more than others of course.

Last edited by questmark; 2007-02-10 at 11:00.
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Old 2007-02-10, 14:54   Link #105
Kaioshin Sama
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Seems the U.S doesn't have a monopoly on the alteration of another cultures literature and media. Yet Japan still will never catch the all time Champ of completely rewriting famous stories to suit their target audience. Whether this is a complete rewrite or friendlier adaptation of course remains to be seen.

And if people think the anime is too depressing they need to see something like Schindler's List or read the original Les Miserables because that is depressing. The whole idea of adapting Les Miserables into a series using Moe character designs instead of darker palletes and harsher character designs depicting the poverty and squalor of the Napoleonic Period seems a really bizarre choice indeed. To say I'm at all surprised though would be a blatant lie. I'm not surprised they put the emphasis on Cossete for the Japanese audience nor changed her characters disposition to a more attractively moe appearance either. When I look at the legendary portrait of Cossete though that is not what I see. The appearance of the series has more of a cinderella like fairy tale vibe to it than that of Les Miserables.

Well at least I'll never feel guilty about western culture altering other cultures works to fit the bill for its audience or making it more kid friendly again. But as always we'll laugh it off say that's Japan for you the same country that can turn its own warring states period into Sengoku Rance, and we'll see what happens. It's just bloody started after all and its been a long time since I've seen a 50 plus episode anime (A LOOONG time) which almost always build to something special by the end. The fact that this seems to be an extension of a legendary banner known as WMT, which has a good reputation helps to alleviate any worries or apprehension I had somewhat.

The sole apprehension I had here was, my friend claims to hate it because its become a Shoujo romance but his comments and proof seem so half-assed that I'm not buying it this time, all I can see is a lighter take on the story than Victor Hugo's original. He also has an irrational hatred of Japanese culture and is prone to making up stuff about them that is often unfair and bent in truth. I've trusted his judgement in the past but lately his views on Japan have become so twisted, biased and outright unfair, that I've had to take his word with a grain of salt lately. Let's just call it even with the Japanese now for creating Warriors of The Wind, The Last Samurai, MXC, Pearl Harbour... etc.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2007-02-10 at 17:01.
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Old 2007-02-11, 07:02   Link #106
IchiKyo
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Episode 6 Screencaps
I haven't see the Ep5 yet
Maybe later

Last edited by IchiKyo; 2007-02-11 at 20:15. Reason: Raw out
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Old 2007-02-11, 18:40   Link #107
dark_glaive
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I was a bit dissapointed. No mechs, and Cossette isn't the key to a robot apocalypse. Seems sort of pointless to make an anime of it without over-the-top anime'ness.
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Old 2007-02-11, 19:02   Link #108
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_glaive View Post
I was a bit dissapointed. No mechs, and Cossette isn't the key to a robot apocalypse. Seems sort of pointless to make an anime of it without over-the-top anime'ness.
Haha yeah well. Yeah, don't give the production companies any ideas. They're on a mecha revival and one shouldn't rule anything out at this point.

At that point though they wouldn't be able to use the title Les Miserables without being laughed out of the industry. They'd have to do like they did with Sokou No Strain and claim inspiration. They'd still have to pay to use the character names but I don't think a licence to use Les Miserables in the title could be granted in that case.

Can you define "over-the-top anime'ness" though? Keep in mind every culture has their own forms of sensationalizing things. In the West they like to scare the shit out of you with every little thing that goes slightly wrong in the world, and in the East they like to make you go "KAWAII!" or get you to the point where you make the face in my avatar.
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Old 2007-02-11, 20:16   Link #109
IchiKyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_glaive View Post
No mechs,.

Eh
Don't think on the 20th Century that Mecha Exist in France
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Old 2007-02-11, 20:21   Link #110
lixuelai
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Watched the first two episodes and Im getting the feeling that Cosette is going to be the main character as opposed to Jean in the book. Cosette is a side character and as someone correctly pointed out: "an under developed one". The story isnt meant to be a "they lived happily after" one even though I have a feeling in this anime it will be. Its about Jean's tragic life and the tragedies of a society as a whole.
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Old 2007-02-13, 18:15   Link #111
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01 AVI out now.
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Old 2007-02-14, 03:45   Link #112
professays
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I haven't read the book but I'll watch it.
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Old 2007-02-14, 07:55   Link #113
Sorrow-K
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Ep 1.

I think people expecting a scene-for-scene translation as opposed to a somewhat loose adaptation/retelling are going to be disappointed. Haven't read the book myself (I do read, before people accuse me of otherwise, I've just never been motivated to read this particular book), so this is my first experience with Les Mis, as well as my first experience with WMT (I am extremely happy it's back, though, that's for sure), but I am very impressed so far. If Gankutsuou has taught us anything, it seems all it takes to make a winning anime based on classic literature is care on the part of the producers and animators and a passion for the source material, and so far I wouldn't say either are missing in this.
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Old 2007-02-14, 08:21   Link #114
physics223
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With all the anti-heroes out there (Lelouch, Suzaku, Light), someone desperately needs to make an anime about[B] Crime and Punishment[/$B] ...
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Old 2007-02-14, 15:46   Link #115
Asrialys
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Just finished episode 1.

Argh, those two who took in Cosette. They have faces that I'd like to punch multiple times.
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Old 2007-02-14, 19:57   Link #116
NoSanninWa
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They look like someone beat you to it.
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There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.
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Old 2007-02-15, 00:06   Link #117
shikitohno
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Gee, maybe my French was off enough that I seriously misinterpreted it, but it seemed to me that this anime was rather quick to depart from its source material. As I recall, it was Fantine who requested of Thenardier that Cossette stayed with them. In fact, I don't even recall M. Thenardier being in that particular scene. Call me quick to judge, but I won't be watching this.
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Old 2007-02-15, 07:16   Link #118
Ursula Lanoire
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You're not misinterpreting things - that was a change. Not really one I minded much (relatively small on the scope of things, IMO), but a change nonetheless.

Thus far, one of the biggest things I take issue with is Alain. Madelaine helping the kid? Sure. Madelaine spilling his guts to someone he just met? Um, no. Basically, he's just a not-too-plausible plot device for flashbacks.
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Old 2007-02-17, 12:22   Link #119
lakme
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Sorrow-K: They have no passion for the source material and it is obvious. I would be able to tell if true Les Misérables fans had written this. And as this is apparently a cutesy, happy kid's anime, this anime will never be able to reach the level of Gankutsuou.

igalsfy: Yes, you feel my pain!

lixuelai: As I've said, I completely disagree that Cosette is underdeveloped and a side character. In the book, she is a main character, VERY important, and also well-developed.

Anyway, now that ep 1 is fansubbed I finally watched it. I now understand why I had that "Sick and wrong" vibe about it: it's intended for kids! Why oh WHY would anyone make a Les Mis for children? It's been tried before, and it's never really worked. I mean, isn't it bad enough that Disney did The Hunchback of Notre Dame?

The Alain thing was really stupid; I was like "Oh wow, I wonder if they're trying to use this to segue into Valjean's sordid past!" I HATE how the Thénardiers are drawn; they are too comical (like in the musical, I suppose,) and what is with Monsieur Thénardier's Hitler mustache?? I couldn't get past the nitpicky things either, like the factory type being wrong and the fact that Cosette was barely awake when Fantine left her with the Thénardiers.

It was also anachronistic to me: the hairstyles, the way people talked, etc. Not to mention that, as this is a kid's anime, they made everything look so clean and happy, even when people are apparently starving (like Alain; his clothes looked as nice as some of the things I wear, at least, and I'm not a 19th century French orphan.)

My main issue, though, is how they built up Fantine and Cosette's relationship. I don't know how old Cosette is in the anime, but in the book I believe she and Fantine parted when she was 2. The fact that Cosette is barely old enough to remember her mother is CRUCIAL later in explaining her relationship with Jean Valjean. By making it all mother-daughter sweetness, they are ruining a very important part of the story and Cosette's character, which plays a role in her future relationships.
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Old 2007-02-18, 07:32   Link #120
IchiKyo
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So here goes nothing

Last edited by IchiKyo; 2007-02-18 at 13:39. Reason: It will be enough until RAW out
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