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Old 2006-10-18, 13:25   Link #1
Kaoru Chujo
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Join Date: Jul 2004
when series with their own forum finish...

... perhaps the Generic Discussion thread for them should go back to, or be linked to from, the main Fansub or Licensed forum. I see completed shows keep popping up to the head of the line in Fansubs, whereas major completed shows are harder to get to, and may not get the attention people would really like to give them.

I personally would also prefer to see the DVD/Licensed shows in the Fansubs forum, so it's easier to discuss both. They could be marked as licensed. It would depend on how unwieldy that made the list, though.
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Old 2006-10-19, 06:09   Link #2
felix
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Try going to the Archives (threads are listed by date..)
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Old 2006-10-19, 07:07   Link #3
xris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo
... perhaps the Generic Discussion thread for them should go back to, or be linked to from, the main Fansub or Licensed forum. I see completed shows keep popping up to the head of the line in Fansubs, whereas major completed shows are harder to get to, and may not get the attention people would really like to give them.
I don't think it's practical to try and do this. It isn't possible to create an indirect link for a thread in one forum to be shown in another forum and remain updated. While we can create redirection links for when a thread is moved from one forum to another, the thread details (Replies, Views and Last Post) are not shown and therefore it doesn't "rise to the top" when a new post is added to the thread.

And if we did move the Generic Discussion from the Series Specific forum to (say) the Fansub forum, it more than likely would cause more confusion since many people might not realise that there are many more discussion threads available for that series (such as "Favourites" Polls, "Final Discussion" threads, Av and Sig Requests and so on).

Now it's true that some of the old series specific forums do not get much traffic but I suspect that it the main discussion thread is moved to the Fansub forum, it will get "buried" under all the other active threads in that forum so might get even fewer posts.

It doesn't mean our current system is perfect, I'm wondering what the forum will look like in a year or more time when we have about 100 sub-forums in Older Series Discussin We are somewhat constrained by what vBulletin allow us to do and it may become a real problem at some point in the future.

But I don't beleive that "major completed shows are harder to get to" because of the fact there are in their own forum, if anythng it makes them more visible than they would if they were buried deep within the Fansub forum. IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo
I personally would also prefer to see the DVD/Licensed shows in the Fansubs forum, so it's easier to discuss both. They could be marked as licensed. It would depend on how unwieldy that made the list, though.
Each to their own I guess I prefer to have a clear indication that the series is licensed or not.

No fansub yet available + not licensed -> General Anime forum
Fansubs are available + not licensed -> Fansub forum
Licensed -> DVD & Licensed forum

Whenever I look in the Fansub forum at the start of the day, I usually see more that 20 active threads (i.e. threads that have new posts since I last visited the forums). If the DVD & Licensed threads were to be moved their as well I think there would be to many active threads and might make it more difficult to see the series you are interested in discussing. At least with them being spread over three forums, I think it encourages more discussion (because you can see the thread you may be interested in float to the top of the forum).

But that's all personal preference really.
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Old 2006-10-19, 08:03   Link #4
Radiosity
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Hmm, this fits here I think, so I'll not create a new thread just for this question/ suggestion:

Regarding series specific forums, it's getting a bit messy in the Older Series area due to the fairly large amount of series that have finished (both ages ago and recently). So how about splitting it into another category such as Old Series Archive (or whatever). Things like Air, FMP, FMA, Chrno Crusade, KgNE and so on that finished a long time ago can be moved there while Zero no Tsukaima, AMG, Nanoha, Ouran, Suzumiya etc.. (ie, the recent stuff) stays in Older Series.

While it's not a solution to the problem of a growing number of series having their own sub-forums, at least it keeps things a bit neater and organised
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Old 2006-10-19, 08:27   Link #5
xris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiosity View Post
Hmm, this fits here I think, so I'll not create a new thread just for this question/ suggestion:

Regarding series specific forums, it's getting a bit messy in the Older Series area due to the fairly large amount of series that have finished (both ages ago and recently). So how about splitting it into another category such as Old Series Archive (or whatever). Things like Air, FMP, FMA, Chrno Crusade, KgNE and so on that finished a long time ago can be moved there while Zero no Tsukaima, AMG, Nanoha, Ouran, Suzumiya etc.. (ie, the recent stuff) stays in Older Series.

While it's not a solution to the problem of a growing number of series having their own sub-forums, at least it keeps things a bit neater and organised
I'm not convinced that adding another layer will help much.

Current Series Discussion
Recent Series Discussion
Older Series Discussion

All it will do is delay the entry into Older Series Discussion by something like a season (3 months) as all the "Recent Series Discussion" would do is act as a stepping stone for the transition from Current -> Older.

The true problem is what are we going to do several years down the line Currently we have 22 sub-forums under Older Series Discussion. By this time next year this might grow to 40 entries, in two years time it might be as large as having 60 sub-forums. So, yes it may well get messy. I hope by then there is some change in vB that will allow us to change the way we display our sub-forums. Answers on a postcard please....
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Old 2006-10-19, 14:14   Link #6
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xris View Post
It doesn't mean our current system is perfect, I'm wondering what the forum will look like in a year or more time when we have about 100 sub-forums in Older Series Discussin We are somewhat constrained by what vBulletin allow us to do and it may become a real problem at some point in the future.
That would be an interesting problem indeed. I would sure to be looking forward to how you are going to solve this problem in the future.
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Old 2006-10-19, 14:52   Link #7
Kaoru Chujo
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I guess I'll just have to learn to flit from forum to forum. I do that at the beginning of each season -- bookmarking both Fansubs and General -- but I'm quite relieved when the shows I'm interested in have made it to Fansubs. And much as I like the variety of threads in the independent forums, it is a downside for me that they are off in another area.

But I certainly understand your difficulties. I'm just happy to have raised the question so it is implanted in some significant minds. Perhaps someone else will come up with a perfect solution that pleases everyone (lol), and perhaps vBulletin will be upgraded to help you.

For the older series, I wonder if vBulletin allows you to make a pop-up with clickable links in it, as for the names of posters in threads, but onMouseover. And I wonder if a pop-up with so many links in it could be formatted to be useful as opposed to just a great pain, lol.
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Old 2006-10-19, 14:53   Link #8
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
That would be an interesting problem indeed. I would sure to be looking forward to how you are going to solve this problem in the future.
There's always the option of forcing Vb to do as you want it..

I also have some Q.

Why are the Fansubs and DVD & Licensed forums in the Anime Section.. and not in the Series Discussion Section.. it's kind of inconvenient and annoying..
Is there really that big of a gap between thread-series and forum-series.

And another question.. Can you have sub-forums in forums that don't display in the main index page as sub-forums?
Or sub-forums that can auto order themselves by date..

Just like Radiosity said.. Some series (like Chrono Crusade) generate very few posts.. (something like 1 post/week) so they're just dead wait.. It would be better if they didn't show next ot the active ones.. (how about moving them as sub-forums for the General Anime Forum..)
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Old 2006-10-19, 16:06   Link #9
xris
Just call me Ojisan
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
That would be an interesting problem indeed. I would sure to be looking forward to how you are going to solve this problem in the future.
I also will be looking forward to the solution
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I guess I'll just have to learn to flit from forum to forum. I do that at the beginning of each season -- bookmarking both Fansubs and General -- but I'm quite relieved when the shows I'm interested in have made it to Fansubs. And much as I like the variety of threads in the independent forums, it is a downside for me that they are off in another area.

But I certainly understand your difficulties. I'm just happy to have raised the question so it is implanted in some significant minds. Perhaps someone else will come up with a perfect solution that pleases everyone (lol), and perhaps vBulletin will be upgraded to help you.

For the older series, I wonder if vBulletin allows you to make a pop-up with clickable links in it, as for the names of posters in threads, but onMouseover. And I wonder if a pop-up with so many links in it could be formatted to be useful as opposed to just a great pain, lol.
Heh, I doubt we will ever come close to pleasing all the people all of the time.

But I understand your problem, it's one of the penalties you get when you have so many series you enjoy and like to discuss all of them (and there are a good number of you who do contribute so much to the forum discussion and make it so enjoyable to read).

I love your suggestion about about forum pop-ups onMouseOver. Wouldn't it be great to be able to hover the mouse over a Forum link and be presented with a pop-up displaying (say) the first half dozen active threads (along with clickable links to go to the first post of the thread). Maybe it's something to suggest to the vBulletin development team.

I can see a performance issue with it, such a feature would require all the information be downloaded whenever you download the parent forum. So each time you looked at the front forum page, you would also have to request all that data from all the forums underneath it as well. But, the same happens whenever you look inside any of the forums, when you hover the mouse over a link to a thread you get a pop-up showing the first few lines of the post, so this means whenever you look inside a forum you also have to download the contents of every thread that's listed in the forum. So maybe it's not that much of a technical problem after all, but I don't really know. BTW, I see this more as a performance issue with the database search engine (or whatever it is that gathers all the relevant info)

But nice idea. Maybe it's something that should be suggested to vBulletin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII View Post
There's always the option of forcing Vb to do as you want it..

I also have some Q.

Why are the Fansubs and DVD & Licensed forums in the Anime Section.. and not in the Series Discussion Section.. it's kind of inconvenient and annoying..
Is there really that big of a gap between thread-series and forum-series.
Ummm, Fansubs and DVD & Licensed forums are in the Anime section because they are anime...

To me the split of the Anime section and the Series Discussion makes perfect sense. It would look peculiar in my mind to have them mixed in any other way. But then it's down to personal preference. I'm coming from a standpoint where we didn't have a Series Discussion section originally so I see the logic in having a section that contains only names of anime series (i.e. the Series Discussion section) and a section have is for various aspects of Anime (such as Manga, Games, Fansubs, etc.).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
And another question.. Can you have sub-forums in forums that don't display in the main index page as sub-forums?
No, that's one of the limitations of vB currently, if we show sub-forums at all, we have to show all of them. So we cannot select some sections to show sub-forums and some not to show sub-forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
Or sub-forums that can auto order themselves by date..
Why would you want to order sub-forums by date? We can actually choose the order they are listed in but it's not dynamic.

Do you mean we should list the "old" sub-forums last? OK, I can sort of see the logic there. If so, then that is actually possible, I could rearrange the order to whatever I wish. But then, it's down to personal preference and I can "find" items in (alphabetic) sorted lists easier than what would initialy seems a random selected order. Example.
Quote:
Sub-Forums: Fate/stay night, Higurashi, Ouran Host Club, School Rumble, Utawarerumono, Zero no Tsukaima, Full Metal Panic, Kashimashi, Suzumiya Haruhi, Ah! My Goddess, Air, Chrno Crusade, Fullmetal Alchemist, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, KonoMini, Maria-sama, Midori no Hibi, Monster, My HiME / My Otome, Nanoha, Rozen Maiden, Shuffle!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
Just like Radiosity said.. Some series (like Chrono Crusade) generate very few posts.. (something like 1 post/week) so they're just dead wait.. It would be better if they didn't show next ot the active ones.. (how about moving them as sub-forums for the General Anime Forum..)
Again, moving them doesn't help apart from making it more confusing IMHO.
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Old 2006-10-19, 17:48   Link #10
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xris View Post
Ummm, Fansubs and DVD & Licensed forums are in the Anime section because they are anime...
Your point..?
All they have in them are series discussions..
If someone visits the forum.. it's most likely he comes here to discuss anime..
The way things are now.. it's most likely that people will go either only to forum-series or only to thread-series.. (both if he likes to read each and every little post on the forum). Anyway my point is, why must forums that represent the original idea of the forum be placed as such great distance apart..

Quote:
Originally Posted by xris View Post
To me the split of the Anime section and the Series Discussion makes perfect sense. It would look peculiar in my mind to have them mixed in any other way. But then it's down to personal preference.
IMO, it's not personal preference but personal logic.
The Series Section, as it is now, looks peculiar.. I mean what the heck makes series like Naruto and Gundam so special that they deserve to take so much frikin' space.. Why didn't you just create some other forum, like "Mega Series" or whatever and placed them there as sub-forums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xris View Post
I'm coming from a standpoint where we didn't have a Series Discussion section originally so I see the logic in having a section that contains only names of anime series (i.e. the Series Discussion section) and a section have is for various aspects of Anime (such as Manga, Games, Fansubs, etc.).
The Fansubs and DVD & Licensed forums are 99.99% just series discussion forums.. they have "belong in the Series Discussion Section" written all over them..
What sort of harm would it cause if the were in the SDS instead of a entire page-up away..

Quote:
Originally Posted by xris View Post
Why would you want to order sub-forums by date? We can actually choose the order they are listed in but it's not dynamic.
Sorry have a cold at the moment.. so my thoughts can be a little blurry..
I meant by last-post.. so the sub-forums would be like threads..
My original idea was to create a forum, containing only sub-forums (that wouldn't show in the main index). And move there all the old less-active series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xris View Post
Do you mean we should list the "old" sub-forums last? OK, I can sort of see the logic there. If so, then that is actually possible, I could rearrange the order to whatever I wish. But then, it's down to personal preference and I can "find" items in (alphabetic) sorted lists easier than what would initialy seems a random selected order. Example.
Quote:
Sub-Forums: Fate/stay night, Higurashi, Ouran Host Club, School Rumble, Utawarerumono, Zero no Tsukaima, Full Metal Panic, Kashimashi, Suzumiya Haruhi, Ah! My Goddess, Air, Chrno Crusade, Fullmetal Alchemist, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, KonoMini, Maria-sama, Midori no Hibi, Monster, My HiME / My Otome, Nanoha, Rozen Maiden, Shuffle!
No.. read what I wrote above..
Well.. Alphabetical order is wrong because it means series will change they're place from time to time.. so if a new series is added it may dislodge other series in the cloud.. (if a series you still liked to discuss was the last on line 2 and you add a series that is somewhere before it then, chances are that now your little series is the first on line 3). It's not a big deal.. but it's very annoying, since you have to search for it and get used to it's new positon time and time again..

The best way to order them, IMO, is: latest finished = last
This way, the position of previews items isn't effected and series that are from season X (like the current season, which are more likely to draw attention) are all nicely near each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xris View Post
Again, moving them doesn't help apart from making it more confusing IMHO.
That was related to my previous comment.
I should start using the separator line to structure my post better.
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