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Old 2009-07-11, 16:14   Link #541
chocochiep
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I wonder since no one seems to recognize Isshin's name then if he was the former Kenpachi. I know Kenpachi Zaraki killed the former 11th Division Captain but Isshin could have left before then. During the Turn Back the Pendulum arc the 11th Division Captain wasn't seen because he was off "marching to the beat of his own drum". Those that say it can't be because Isshin didn't come to the human worl till 20 years before the story began isn't that correct. After all, Uruhara came to the human world 100 years before and hasn't aged so whats to say Isshin didn't come earlier. I'm not quite sure about Isshin being human. Either he was in a Gigai so long he lost his powers and became human (much like how Rukia was about to is she hadn't been taken back to Soul Society), or he was sealed.

If he was the Captain right before Kenpachi Zaraki and Zaraki defeated him then maybe he didn't really die. Can anyone still point out the chapter that shows Zaraki fighting the previous 11th Division Captain?
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Old 2009-07-11, 22:28   Link #542
kagato3
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Originally Posted by chocochiep View Post
I wonder since no one seems to recognize Isshin's name then if he was the former Kenpachi. I know Kenpachi Zaraki killed the former 11th Division Captain but Isshin could have left before then. During the Turn Back the Pendulum arc the 11th Division Captain wasn't seen because he was off "marching to the beat of his own drum". Those that say it can't be because Isshin didn't come to the human worl till 20 years before the story began isn't that correct. After all, Uruhara came to the human world 100 years before and hasn't aged so whats to say Isshin didn't come earlier. I'm not quite sure about Isshin being human. Either he was in a Gigai so long he lost his powers and became human (much like how Rukia was about to is she hadn't been taken back to Soul Society), or he was sealed.

If he was the Captain right before Kenpachi Zaraki and Zaraki defeated him then maybe he didn't really die. Can anyone still point out the chapter that shows Zaraki fighting the previous 11th Division Captain?
It wasn't shown but was stated as fact by Tousen and others (inculeding the data books) that he killed the last Kenpachi. In order to become captain the way Kenpachi did he had to defeat (not kill) the former one in front of at least 200 members of the 11th divison. time line wise Zaraki has to have been a captain for at least 52 years since Ikkaku and Yumichika followed Zaraki in becomeing shinigami (and likely much longer since Ikkaku has had Bankai for a long time) and they also had to go through the 5 year course work and had been seated longer then Renji, but it is much more likely he was the new Kenpachi in TBtP.
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Last edited by kagato3; 2009-07-11 at 22:51.
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Old 2009-07-12, 00:26   Link #543
Chaos Zangetsu
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
Nothing has realy shown Ryuuken has a grudge against shinigami. Ryuuken's core is someone that wants to protect and porvide for his family. He doesn't want to be a Quincy because you can't make a liveing doing so. He tells Uryuu that it is a shinigami's job to save the dead. He then tells Uryuu to say away from his grandfather because he has no talent as a Quincy. Souken tells Uryuu that Ryuuken isn't wrong but neither is Uryuu in wanting to protect everyone from the hollows he sees. Souken explains that diffrent things become importent depending on what someone wants to protect. Uryuu mistakenly belives that Ryuuken wants to protect his money when in fact it is Uryuu he truely wants to protect. The stay away from shinigami is more of him trying to protect Uryuu then anything to do with a grudge.
That was more insight than an explaination. I more or less was trying to say Isshin's past with Ryuuken could've resembled Ichigo's beginnings with Uryuu since Ryuuken obviously knows Isshin. How Ryuuken knows Isshin we don't know and it isn't explained yet..
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Old 2009-07-12, 14:08   Link #544
XLilaX
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Originally Posted by chocochiep View Post

If he was the Captain right before Kenpachi Zaraki and Zaraki defeated him then maybe he didn't really die. Can anyone still point out the chapter that shows Zaraki fighting the previous 11th Division Captain?
There's no way Isshin could have been the former Kenpachi !! He's just way too nice :'( Even if you say "Oh there must have been some dramatic mid-life crisis that drove him to become the ideal family man who's obsessed with protecting his family" cuz there's just no indication of remorse or repentance for his actions as a KENPACHI!!! And I highly doubt Kubo would want to portray the ever so sweet Kurosaki Isshin as the former blood-lusting, downright ruthless Kenpachi !!!!
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Old 2009-07-14, 12:16   Link #545
dweller of the deep
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Hm, he is a doctor isn't he? maybe he had something to do with 4th Division. or Unohaha herself ^^
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Old 2009-07-14, 13:31   Link #546
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Originally Posted by dweller of the deep View Post
Hm, he is a doctor isn't he? maybe he had something to do with 4th Division. or Unohaha herself ^^
Or he was the previous 4th Captain, which makes him ancient !!
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Old 2009-07-14, 18:27   Link #547
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Ok I guess since he is a previous Captain that definitely rulez out R.G. because being Captain of R.G is very unlikely So he could have been Captain of :

1. 10th Division (Hitsugaya Toushiro) - my bet is on this one cuz he was the most recent Captain Appointed

2. 3rd Division (Ichimaru Gin) - Rose *He's now a Vaizard* used to be 3rd Squad's Captain then after his leave it isn't said who took his place and at that time the current Captain Gin was still a child meaning that somebody before him and after Rose was a Captain -_-" so confusing......

3. Kidou Corps (Tessai * The big guy in Urahara's Shop*) After Tessai and Hachi left it isn't said who replaces them, meaning that it could have been Isshin.
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Old 2009-07-14, 18:39   Link #548
Gin
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Originally Posted by XLilaX View Post
Ok I guess since he is a previous Captain that definitely rulez out R.G. because being Captain of R.G is very unlikely So he could have been Captain of :

1. 10th Division (Hitsugaya Toushiro) - my bet is on this one cuz he was the most recent Captain Appointed

2. 3rd Division (Ichimaru Gin) - Rose *He's now a Vaizard* used to be 3rd Squad's Captain then after his leave it isn't said who took his place and at that time the current Captain Gin was still a child meaning that somebody before him and after Rose was a Captain -_-" so confusing......

3. Kidou Corps (Tessai * The big guy in Urahara's Shop*) After Tessai and Hachi left it isn't said who replaces them, meaning that it could have been Isshin.
1.It depends on how long the 10th division spot was open, if it remained open (or someone else served as captain) for the 100 years after TBTP then Isshin could have been captain, but if he was captain during the 100 years after TBTP then Rukia or Renji would have recognized him when they saw him in the human world.

2.Pretty much the same as #1

3. If Isshin was a kidou master then I think he might have used at least 1 kidou spell
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Old 2009-07-15, 09:05   Link #549
XLilaX
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3. If Isshin was a kidou master then I think he might have used at least 1 kidou spell
That's so true XD He's probably like Ichigo; all brawn no brains =3 I bet Isshin and Ryuken were like Ichigo and Ishida now
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Old 2009-07-15, 09:14   Link #550
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I bet Isshin and Ryuken were like Ichigo and Ishida now
i hope not, that would be to much like naruto
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Old 2009-07-15, 12:53   Link #551
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i hope not, that would be to much like naruto
u mean the all brawn no brain part ?

does ne one else remember the episode where Isshin killed grand fisher???
I'm pretty certain Grandfisher told Isshin something about Ichigo being a pure blood

somebody tell me so i can watch it back
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Old 2009-07-15, 18:35   Link #552
Gin
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u mean the all brawn no brain part ?
yeah but also how the teams in past generations were just like the current ones
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Old 2009-07-16, 20:22   Link #553
tensashinigami
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urahara mentioned in the turn back pendulum arc to hiyori that you cannot resign from the gotei 13 except if you're being promoted to RG or have to be on leave for certain circumstances....i think isshin might've fallen into the 'circumstances' part
It almost feels like; Isshin was saying he was sent to the real world to find the Vaizards. Perhaps exterminate them, but someone caught his attention. Later he became the special "circumstances," he found himself asking Urahara for a special gigai.

Perhaps, Ichigo mother was simply a human with high spiritual sense.

bleach 188 pg 09, at the bottom. "We never found their base of operations, nor uncovered their goals." I doubt he was refering Urahara and himself searching.
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Old 2009-07-16, 21:11   Link #554
XLilaX
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Yes that we sounds awfully suspicious .... (GASP!!) Maybe that's why neither Rukia nor Renji recognize him!! He was sent to earth on a Top Secret Mission and somewhere along the way he got stuck in the real world i'm so smart

ps
y do they call it the real world?_? IS ss somehow fake
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Old 2009-07-17, 03:43   Link #555
kagato3
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Ok lets try and collect the facts.
Facts:
1 Shinji can not id him from his power. Given that this was a thought to himself and the readers already knew who it was Implies that the fact Shinji doesn't know him is improtent.

2 His powers were sealed and masked for 20 years to the point that a shinagami liveing under the same roof could not tell he was one.

3 Urahara is responsable for at the very least something to do with the seal on his powers.

4 he seems to have been able to id that Ichigo was contacted by a vizard.

5 he calls the vizzards a group of criminals that used forbidden spells to gain hollow powers. This statement could have 2 meanings a) they are criminals because they used the spells, or b) they were criminals and then used the spells. either of these statements could work as the last time we saw them They were nearly fully hollow the forbidden spells may have been like what they did to Ichigo that let them control it.

6 he (and Urahara?) have been looking for them but has no insight on thier goals.

7 he has fought anacarr before and known about them for decades

8 he seems to be firmly in Urahara's camp not counting himself as part of SS.
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Old 2009-07-17, 09:20   Link #556
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2 His powers were sealed and masked for 20 years to the point that a shinagami living under the same roof could not tell he was one.
If that shinigami's Ichigo, you can't expect much...his reiatsu sensors died when he pulled Zangetsu and insane power but Kenpachi's sense of orientation replaced those pretty red threads

Quote:
7 he has fought arancarr before and known about them for decades
Are you sure he has actually fought arrancar before? I thought that, at the beginning of the Shinji arc, Aizen was still testing his prototype arrancars. Couldn't it be that he just heard from Urahara, who's an expert on the subject?
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Old 2009-07-17, 13:17   Link #557
kagato3
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If that shinigami's Ichigo, you can't expect much...his reiatsu sensors died when he pulled Zangetsu and insane power but Kenpachi's sense of orientation replaced those pretty red threads
I was refering to Rukia, who was living there for 3+ months and was shown to retain her reiatsu sensing ablity even when completely drained and stuck in a tower that actively leaches reiatsu. Ichigo's ablities to sense reiatsu have been shown to be average he's able to feel and ID people at range of miles. Ichigo's problem is he rarely takes the time to focus and use it. You'll notice that unlike in the SS arc where he kept asking where Rukia was in the HM arc he made a b-line for Orihime twice finding her with ease at the distance of miles.

Quote:

Are you sure he has actually fought arrancar before? I thought that, at the beginning of the Shinji arc, Aizen was still testing his prototype arrancars. Couldn't it be that he just heard from Urahara, who's an expert on the subject?
Given that Urahara wasn't sure GF was an arrancar and needed Ishin to confirm it and Isshin stated "but compaired to the arrancar that we have seen before it was on a completely different level". Other statments make it look as if Isshin may have more experince with the arrancar then Urahara given the way he was lectureing Urahara. The prototypes Azein was testing were those made with the hougyoku there have been non hougyoku arrancar for decades (Nel has been one for an unknown nnumber of years).
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Old 2009-07-17, 13:39   Link #558
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I have this sneaking suspicion that he was the 11th Division captian prior to zaraki or even before him.
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Old 2009-07-17, 16:44   Link #559
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I have this sneaking suspicion that he was the 11th Division captian prior to zaraki or even before him.
Thats gonna be unsightly
If Isshin is only at that level, then I dont really even want to see him fight.
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Old 2009-07-18, 05:44   Link #560
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I have this sneaking suspicion that he was the 11th Division captian prior to zaraki or even before him.
I used to think this idea was completely retarded but now I'm actually considering it. What if Isshin teamed up with Yoruichi and Urahara to fake his own death in his fight with Zaraki. Then Isshin went to live in the human world, that could explain why Urahara and the Vizards went to live in Karakura town
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