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Old 2009-07-20, 18:05   Link #561
XLilaX
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So sorry to just suddenly change topic but does ne one know what Kubo wants for Isshin??Sounds weird but the point I'm trying to make is that if we wanted to know more about the character we have to know more about the writer, take for example Kubo wanted Isshin to be a mortician at first because he looked better in black.... wait that makes no sense ?_? But that's the way Kubo thinks (that's not an insult, just a fact that he is an artist)
So if you were Kubo where would you go from there ??
Is Isshin a former Master of deception thats why everyone thinks hes an idiot (even his children think so for goodness sake) ... actually Isshin is a Master of Deception!!
Is he a former assassin like Soi Fon?? .. NO he's too funny XD .... or is he O.o
Does Kubo even take him as serious as we do or is Isshin just another sub character the truth hurts.....

:P please don't bash me but that's my take on it ^^ ACK DONT HIT ME :'(
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Old 2009-07-20, 20:54   Link #562
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3
Given that Urahara wasn't sure GF was an arrancar and needed Ishin to confirm it and Isshin stated "but compaired to the arrancar that we have seen before it was on a completely different level". Other statments make it look as if Isshin may have more experince with the arrancar then Urahara given the way he was lectureing Urahara.
I never really noticed it before, but he did know an awful lot about arrancar. I wonder how much knowledge SS has about arrancar (naturally occuring ones that is). The first fights with GJ made it seem like none of the Gotei 13 had ever fought arrancar at all. Though that group hougyoku created

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Originally Posted by Gin View Post
I used to think this idea was completely retarded but now I'm actually considering it. What if Isshin teamed up with Yoruichi and Urahara to fake his own death in his fight with Zaraki. Then Isshin went to live in the human world, that could explain why Urahara and the Vizards went to live in Karakura town
That'd be an impressive trick. 200+ people witnessed the previous captain of the 11th get defeated. They'd have to fool the 4th squad too. Unohana does a thorough autopsy of captains who die. Even Aizen's complete hypnosis wasn't enough to totally throw her off suspicion so Urahara would have to come up with an incredibly accurate gigai to stand in for Isshin's body.

And even assuming all that, it wouldn't explain why Shinji didn't recognize Isshin's reiatsu, seeing as how that explanation means they were both captains during the same period.

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Originally Posted by XLilaX View Post
So sorry to just suddenly change topic but does ne one know what Kubo wants for Isshin??Sounds weird but the point I'm trying to make is that if we wanted to know more about the character we have to know more about the writer, take for example Kubo wanted Isshin to be a mortician at first because he looked better in black.... wait that makes no sense ?_? But that's the way Kubo thinks (that's not an insult, just a fact that he is an artist)
So if you were Kubo where would you go from there ??
Who knows? I really believed for a long time that Kubo decided to make Isshin a shinigami as a quick plot twist, but I found out (courtesy of Geta Boshi) that Kubo did an interview in which he stated that he planned for him to be a shinigami from the very beginning. So he has very clear plans for him.

There's a lot of theories floating around:

Royal Guard, former captain of the 11th, fallen member of the Shiba Clan, member of the royal family, King of Soul Society itself...

Whatever his past is, he's probably going to be key to Ichigo's development. I see him mentoring Ichigo at some point, similar to Ryuuken training Ishida.
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Last edited by Sabaku Kyu; 2009-07-20 at 21:05.
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Old 2009-07-21, 00:59   Link #563
Gin
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
That'd be an impressive trick. 200+ people witnessed the previous captain of the 11th get defeated. They'd have to fool the 4th squad too. Unohana does a thorough autopsy of captains who die. Even Aizen's complete hypnosis wasn't enough to totally throw her off suspicion so Urahara would have to come up with an incredibly accurate gigai to stand in for Isshin's body.
well if anybody besides Aizen could do it, it would be Urahara. Or maybe Aizen helped out? He was pretending to be a good guy back then.
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Old 2009-07-21, 11:01   Link #564
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what i find interesting is his relaitionship with ishidas dad, urahara and the vizard.

He seems unaware of the vizards true history, which begs the question why hasnt urahara informed him? and how come hes ok with urahara but seems anti vizard? does he not know uraharas involvement in the whole scenario and why not?

also interesting that he has a relaiionship with a quincy, is it not a taboo to him? if so how did this come about?

as far as his strenght its prty obv hes captain level *see ishin vs grand fisher

also hes aware of aizen and arrancar having encountered them 10 yrs prior to ch1/ep1, despite leaving ss 20 yrs prior to ch1/ep1, how and why did this exactly come about? seeing his awareness of aizen suggests that aizen was involved in his leaving SS.

Last edited by SMASHERJACKSON; 2009-07-21 at 11:11.
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Old 2009-07-28, 19:00   Link #565
XLilaX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMASHERJACKSON View Post
He seems unaware of the vizards true history, which begs the question why hasnt urahara informed him? and how come hes ok with urahara but seems anti vizard? does he not know uraharas involvement in the whole scenario and why not?
If it's true Urahara hasn't told him about the Vaizards then Isshin wouldn't know any thing of Urahara's relationship with them which explains why he's okay with Urahara but anti-vaizard at the same time. He probably just thinks of Urahara as another runaway Captain and respects him so he doesn't ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMASHERJACKSON View Post
also interesting that he has a relaiionship with a quincy, is it not a taboo to him? if so how did this come about?
Isn't Ichigo friends with Ishida And everybody is fine with Ishida so it shouldn't be a problem that Isshin's friends with a QUincy also..


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Originally Posted by SMASHERJACKSON View Post
also hes aware of aizen and arrancar having encountered them 10 yrs prior to ch1/ep1, despite leaving ss 20 yrs prior to ch1/ep1, how and why did this exactly come about? seeing his awareness of aizen suggests that aizen was involved in his leaving SS.
Okay this is the tricky part
1) There are things such as naturally occurring Arrancar and it is a possibility that Isshin was on a mission to observe things of that sort and then got stuck in the real world somehow..... see previous posts one of them explains it nicely
2) He is extremely well informed on the happenings in Soul Society but as far as he knows is that Aizen has got his hands on the Hougykou and wants to use it on hollow to make a hollow army to wipe out Soul Society etc. so this really doesn't say that he knows Aizen personally ... catch my drift
3) I highly doubt that Aizen helped him with leaving Soul Society mostly because I really don't see how Isshin leaving Soul Society could help with Aizen's master plan its just not connecting....
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Last edited by XLilaX; 2009-07-28 at 19:10. Reason: One more thing....
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Old 2009-07-28, 19:10   Link #566
XLilaX
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How come Rukia never noticed that Isshin was a Shinigami before ?_? Is he that able to control his reiatsu (so not IchigoXD) or is it a special gigai ???

I didn't mean to double post !!! Slip of the fingers!!
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Last edited by XLilaX; 2009-07-28 at 19:11. Reason: SO SORRY!!
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Old 2009-07-28, 19:58   Link #567
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Isshin should dress up as a super hero with a mask and help Ichigo someday XD or in the new Arc. that be awesome
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Old 2009-07-29, 10:42   Link #568
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMASHERJACKSON View Post
what i find interesting is his relaitionship with ishidas dad, urahara and the vizard.

He seems unaware of the vizards true history, which begs the question why hasnt urahara informed him? and how come hes ok with urahara but seems anti vizard? does he not know uraharas involvement in the whole scenario and why not?

also interesting that he has a relaiionship with a quincy, is it not a taboo to him? if so how did this come about?.
there is nothing taboo about shingami and quincys doing anything togather in fact the shingami had someone watching over them to make sure there wasn't a repeat of what cause the clan to get wioed out in the first place. The reason Ishida was so pissed at shinigami is he felt they didn't do their job protecting his grandfather (and the one on duty didn't as he was bribed to let the atack happen)
.
Quote:

as far as his strenght its prty obv hes captain level *see ishin vs grand fisher

also hes aware of aizen and arrancar having encountered them 10 yrs prior to ch1/ep1, despite leaving ss 20 yrs prior to ch1/ep1, how and why did this exactly come about? seeing his awareness of aizen suggests that aizen was involved in his leaving SS.
no he had faced arrancar in the past decades not just 10 years ago. also we have no info when he left SS only his power has been sealed fore 20 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by XLilaX View Post
If it's true Urahara hasn't told him about the Vaizards then Isshin wouldn't know any thing of Urahara's relationship with them which explains why he's okay with Urahara but anti-vaizard at the same time. He probably just thinks of Urahara as another runaway Captain and respects him so he doesn't ask..
I'm not sure he is anti vizard he didn't act as if it was a huge deal they were dealing with his son.


.
Quote:

Isn't Ichigo friends with Ishida And everybody is fine with Ishida so it shouldn't be a problem that Isshin's friends with a QUincy also..




Okay this is the tricky part
1) There are things such as naturally occurring Arrancar and it is a possibility that Isshin was on a mission to observe things of that sort and then got stuck in the real world somehow..... see previous posts one of them explains it nicely
2) He is extremely well informed on the happenings in Soul Society but as far as he knows is that Aizen has got his hands on the Hougykou and wants to use it on hollow to make a hollow army to wipe out Soul Society etc. so this really doesn't say that he knows Aizen personally ... catch my drift
3) I highly doubt that Aizen helped him with leaving Soul Society mostly because I really don't see how Isshin leaving Soul Society could help with Aizen's master plan its just not connecting....
All good and possable points
Quote:
Originally Posted by XLilaX View Post
How come Rukia never noticed that Isshin was a Shinigami before ?_? Is he that able to control his reiatsu (so not IchigoXD) or is it a special gigai ???

I didn't mean to double post !!! Slip of the fingers!!
it's unclear maybe both or something else all to geather.
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Old 2009-07-29, 10:47   Link #569
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Just adding my two cents Unohana is addressed Dai Sempai by Uki/Shun . Dai Sempai means first student under Sensei . Not going too deep into that but basically means Unohana too is somewhere around 2000+ in age .

So for Isshin to be the Taicho of 4th Div he has to be over 1500-1600 years . That is giving Unohana 500-600 <extreme> year window to become taicho
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Old 2009-07-29, 12:27   Link #570
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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I'm 99% sure that Isshin was the Captain of the 10th Squad. Before Hitsugaya.

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Originally Posted by XLilaX View Post
How come Rukia never noticed that Isshin was a Shinigami before ?_? Is he that able to control his reiatsu (so not IchigoXD) or is it a special gigai ???

I didn't mean to double post !!! Slip of the fingers!!
Kisuke and Yoruichi knew him. And Ukitake and Byakuya acknowledged that Ichigo looked his (Byakuya's) Superior. So that mean that he had to be from around that Era. Evidence to support that is all the Captain's were introduced except for the 10th and 11th Squad.

So he was before Rukia's time.
And as noted by Kisuke, he recently got his powers back during the very beginning of the Arrancar Arc
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Old 2009-07-29, 13:32   Link #571
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Back then, I thought Ukitake and Byakuya were talking about Kaien? Since everyone seemed so determined that he looked like him.
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Old 2009-07-29, 18:17   Link #572
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
Back then, I thought Ukitake and Byakuya were talking about Kaien? Since everyone seemed so determined that he looked like him.
No. Kaien had already died. So why would they assume that he was Kaien. But who knows they might have been.
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Old 2009-07-29, 18:22   Link #573
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Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
No. Kaien had already died. So why would they assume that he was Kaien. But who knows they might have been.
no they assumed that he looked like Kaien who was VC of Ukitate's squad.
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Old 2009-07-30, 08:29   Link #574
Chaos Zangetsu
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Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
Back then, I thought Ukitake and Byakuya were talking about Kaien? Since everyone seemed so determined that he looked like him.
I just thought about this actually.

Byakuya actually never said who Ichigo was similar to. All Byakuya said was that he was similar to the one whose ferocity he found distasteful. It also showed in the manga a picture of a person similar looking to Ichigo(almost the split image of him) except with black hair. The only two that anyone knows that fits the description or could have come close was Kaien and Isshin himself(Isshin obviously could be because of genes.)
When I went back and looked at Kaien's pic from Rukia's memory and compared it to Byakuya's memory in the manga, they do look similar but they do have some differences as well. I believe that Byakuya was actually remembering a younger Isshin. Sons do sometimes grow up to look like their fathers after all. If Isshin's personality was also like Ichigo's back then (which is possible as well) then it would all fit as also around Byakuya's time when he was younger and before Rukia's time most likely as well.
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Old 2009-07-30, 09:25   Link #575
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The thing is we never saw Isshin in Pendulum. And since Isshin was already revealed before that, there was no reason to leave him out. Also, I don't know about translation errors, but from what I read in the manga and seen in the anime Byakuya said "No relation. At least not to the one who crossed your mind just now.", meaning either Byakuya just doesn't know or doesn't want to admit it or it's not the case.

Also, I have my doubts against Kubo giving a hint towards something that would be revealed only much later on.
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:30   Link #576
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Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
The thing is we never saw Isshin in Pendulum. And since Isshin was already revealed before that, there was no reason to leave him out. Also, I don't know about translation errors, but from what I read in the manga and seen in the anime Byakuya said "No relation. At least not to the one who crossed your mind just now.", meaning either Byakuya just doesn't know or doesn't want to admit it or it's not the case.

Also, I have my doubts against Kubo giving a hint towards something that would be revealed only much later on.
That's what makes me believe he was the 10th Squad Captain. All the Captains that were revealed, were revealed because they were turned into Vizards. Isshin had no involvement in any of that, so I think it would have been pointless to reveal him.
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Old 2009-07-30, 19:30   Link #577
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While more plusable then being the captain that Kenpachi beat you still run into many of the same problems. first the 10'th captain had died shortly before TBtP it's unlikely that he wasnt replaced durring the 9 year time skip in the arc so Shinji should have known who Isshin was if he was the captian of the 10th 100 years ago. Now if some how the replacement for the dead 10th captain isn't the one Shiro took over for(and if thats the case captains are droping like flies) and Shiro took over for Isshin you run into why isn't Rukia able to ID him.

Basicly Isshin can't be anyone of note in SS for over the last 50 years or Rukia would be able to ID him. He also can't anyone of note while shinji was a captain for the same reason. So either Isshin came out of nowhere made captain level then left in the span of about 50 years or he predates Shinji
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Old 2009-07-30, 19:47   Link #578
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
While more plusable then being the captain that Kenpachi beat you still run into many of the same problems. first the 10'th captain had died shortly before TBtP it's unlikely that he wasnt replaced durring the 9 year time skip in the arc so Shinji should have known who Isshin was if he was the captian of the 10th 100 years ago. Now if some how the replacement for the dead 10th captain isn't the one Shiro took over for(and if thats the case captains are droping like flies) and Shiro took over for Isshin you run into why isn't Rukia able to ID him.

Basicly Isshin can't be anyone of note in SS for over the last 50 years or Rukia would be able to ID him. He also can't anyone of note while shinji was a captain for the same reason. So either Isshin came out of nowhere made captain level then left in the span of about 50 years or he predates Shinji
Shinji doesn't know who Ichigo's father is.
Isshin adopted Kurosaki from Ichigo's mother.
So we can't say Shinji or anybody in SS from that Era doesn't know Ichigo's father, Kisuke and Yoruichi seems to be familiar with him.
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Old 2009-07-30, 19:47   Link #579
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Yeah, I also think that if any from the current SS crew knew him, it would be Yamamoto, Unohana, Shunsui and Ukitake (and Yoruichi).
It's also likely, that he changed his name, because the name Kurosaki didn't ring a bell to anybody before.

But it's a bit strange that Shinji couldn't identify his reiatsu whereas Urahara knows him and Masaki.
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Old 2009-07-30, 20:09   Link #580
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Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
Shinji doesn't know who Ichigo's father is.
Isshin adopted Kurosaki from Ichigo's mother.
So we can't say Shinji or anybody in SS from that Era doesn't know Ichigo's father, Kisuke and Yoruichi seems to be familiar with him.
I was not refering to his name. Shinji ID's his reiatsu as being a very powerful shinigami but he can't place who it is. Anyone vc level or higher durring tbtp should be known to Shinji. He also seems very up to date on current events in SS to the point I would not be suprtized if he could ID all the current captains realy there are only 2 that he was unlikely to hve met Shiro who has only been a shinigami for less then 50 years and Komamura who was part of the guards back then but was also a recluse.
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