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Old 2006-10-30, 13:25   Link #21
Kupop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidal View Post
The OEM has a license to be installed on ONE computer. Technically, it's tied to the Motherboard, and you can change the Hard Disk, Processor, Graphics card and everything else as much as you want and it'll still be valid.

Also, MS might give you a new activation code for XP if the old Motherboard was damaged.
That's for preactivated versions (ones you get with, say, for example, a Dell or HP). Ones that you buy as OEM copies by themselves restrict the computer to a three-pieces-of-hardware change limit. I've just never tried changing the primary drive before, though...
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Old 2006-10-31, 02:05   Link #22
Vexx
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Just to slather boiling oatmeal on the subject, here's a link to the same subject on Slashdot with useful linkage.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/30/1939248

Basically, the latest rag is "one significant hardware upgrade" before you have to plead to them for an activation CDkey. YMMV on the results after that according to various babbling.

One report encountered the "wall" when changing from an EIDE hard drive to a RAID array as his primary drive. Others got nailed by video cards, mobos, cpu --- kind of random, again YMMV.
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Old 2006-11-02, 21:30   Link #23
Vexx
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Apparently, the screams from "super geek culture" (homebuilt hobbyists, enthusiasts, and independent admins) and the business IT sector got loud enough. The Vista agreement is being revised by Microsoft to say:
"You may uninstall the software and install it on another device for your use. You may not do so to share this license between devices."

Here's the link to the official Vista Team blog at Microsoft.
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...ing-terms.aspx
Note: this doesn't mean you might not have to call them occasionally and explain what you're doing (like with XP) but at least (for now) they're officially acknowledging how many toes of their feet were orally inserted.
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Old 2006-11-07, 10:15   Link #24
Kurz
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My Main worry is this. Will Vista enable me to watch my anime?
Since there is going to be a major switch from DirectShow to what Microsoft calls "Media Foundation" how is this going to effect my viewing experience?

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa468614.aspx

*After reading a bit myself it seems that DirectShow will still be in use for a while longer.*
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Old 2006-11-07, 10:22   Link #25
basket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurz View Post
My Main worry is this. Will Vista enable me to watch my anime?
Based on my experiences (I've been running Vista RC2 for about 2 weeks now), the answer is yes. ffdshow and other filters still work and I don't notice any slowness in playing back videos, even h.264 ones.
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Old 2006-11-16, 13:43   Link #26
felix
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Quote - Red HamsterX
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I switched entirely to Linux-based systems (favouring Debian), not counting my two BSD boxes, in early 2002, after using a few of the more prominent Linux distributions on-and-off since mid-1998.

Not a single regret here, which is good, since Microsoft's EULA just keeps getting messier.
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Quote - npal
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For Linux, you can configure various emulators to run Windows applications. Only things you might need to run that don't run in Linux initially are games. Every other productivity application has its equivalent in Linux distributions and it's mostly doing a good job.
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And with some basic knowledge of assembler, C and a little free time you can make your own OS from scratch.. :heh: Oh the joy..

I still don't understand the advantage that linux has besides being free.. :P
What does it do better.. ??

Up until now all the linux distributions look just like wanabe windows versions..
Quote - basket
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I think I must be one of the few people in this thread who is actually running Vista as opposed to talking about running it or reading other peoples' experiences of running it and extrapolating from there. :p :heh:
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Not anymore....
Quote - basket
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- It does use up a lot of disk space if you do an in-place upgrade (which is what I did) because it makes a backup of your existing user profile and then migrates that. But for a clean install, it uses up only about 2 GB of disk space (this is a beta, so the debugging code is still compiled in, etc.).
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I'm curently runing XP and Vista
Basicly I just did a clean install on a sperate partition.. after the install when I checked I noticed it swallowed around 7gigs.. ;)
Now I know why they say it needs 10gigs of free space..
Quote - basket
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- The upgrade process took about two hours, and a clean install took about half an hour. This is very much dependent on the speed of your DVD drive and hard disk, but I like the new setup process because it doesn't copy and expand each file individually (like XP/2000 setup used to do) but rather transfers an image over and then expands that with the machine-specific information. It also looks much nicer and more user-friendly. :)
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Yes setup lots more friendly..
No more MS-Dos style format windows.. etcetera..
Lots simpler too..

I agree with basket Vista is nicer and more user friendly..
Hm.. well while some of the aero effects (fading windows, previews, 3d-fading windows, shadowy sidebar, animated progress bar everywhere etcetera) are all nice and all, I kind of see them geting on my nerve eventually.. IMO beautifull animated designes increase the stress factor if administered in large doses..

Hm.. I somewhat imagine that Vista's looks will lead to more flash oriented designs in sites.. just like Xp's looks did..
Quote - basket
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- It does feel smoother than XP did on the same laptop (Centrino 1.86 GHz, 1GB RAM, 64MB Radeon X700) and definitely looks much prettier (Aero <3). Even running GTK+ programs like Xchat doesn't disable Aero, which surprised me.
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Yes and besides being smother it feels a like it will be a lot easier for the non-g33k populas..
I mean.. they got rid of the slahes/backslashes and replaced them with triangles..also got rid of the Ctrl+Alt+Delete.. you can still acces the Task Manager if you left click on the task bar.. just like in xp.. while this may seem a problem the fact is Vista is tons more stable and it itself never seems to crash.. unless you tell it to :D
I'm actually starting to notice (because I'm also using xp) just how many times Xp crashes..

Maybe I sound confusing, the idea is this, in vista if a program crashes it doesn't take the OS with it.. like in xp.. it more like a forced close.. the OS doesn't even twich.. well at least from what I've seen.. Of course this stability is probably the reason for it's nice resource munching habits..

Just so everything's clear on this, if I switch it to Windows Classic Style which is the same as in xp, the difrence in resource consumtion is close to 0. Probably because the theme only puts your video card to work rather then anything else..
Quote - basket
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- Contrary to what Wordplay says, you don't have to buy a new computer to get any benefits from Vista. I upgraded my dad's computer (a P3-750 with 384 MB RAM that used to be wao's desktop) to Vista RC2 from WinXP, and even though Aero Glass isn't supported (it uses Aero Basic), it's still more responsive and feels more stable than XP did. And dare I say it, it's even a little bit faster? :heh:
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As long as you have some minimum req. Vista will look smoother then xp.. seems even smoother still in aero..
My guess is that aero's effects hide the lag.. lol

It easts a lot of recources but at least the window based progys look like they run smoother..
I'm sure they run smoother in xp.. but what's the point if they feel smoother in Vista :p
Quote - basket
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- Flip3D isn't really like Expose, but that doesn't make it any less pretty or useful for me.
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To be honest I hate that feature, because 1 the new alt+tab with preview is pritier (it even has little icons next to each preview to hint what's there).. and the window-preview in the start bar is super kool..

Why do I need to see 10 screen shots all stacked up one over each other.. there's no work-efficiency or user-friendliness value.. JMO
Quote - basket
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- Quite a few drivers are still not there yet, but I'm hopeful that they'll be ready by the time Vista is released to consumers. Most of the buttons on my laptop work, but the on-screen display doesn't appear. It did on my clean install, though, so I'll have to see what's up with that. The Intel wireless utilities are also broken but I expect Intel to fix that soon since the business release of Vista is coming first. :p :heh:
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Strange..
All my drives got recognised straight off the install..
I know some friends that said that some of theirs didn't get installed staight off (even so everything worked fine)
basket, have you tried going to Device Manager and letting vista find one on the net, rom what I hear all you need to do to get them all working 100% ;)
Quote - Kurz
--------------------------------------
My Main worry is this. Will Vista enable me to watch my anime?
Since there is going to be a major switch from DirectShow to what Microsoft calls "Media Foundation" how is this going to effect my viewing experience?

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa468614.aspx

*After reading a bit myself it seems that DirectShow will still be in use for a while longer.*
--------------------------------------
Well lets see.. after installing Vista I had the unstopable urge to test the hell out of it.. so I dumped every program I could get my hads on to see if it worked.. and...
ALL your games will work... (trust me I tried 'em all from new ones to old ones they're all 100% compatible.. if they worked on xp they'll work on vista just fine)
And 99% of your software will work..

Basically the things that don't work are these..
  • Virtual drive thingies.. like the one from Alcohol.. compatibility issues.. will cause Vista to totally crash on boot.. (BTW if you experience it just go to last good ;) )
  • Your virus/spyware software.. Vista just doesn't allow it..

But don't worry they'll work eventually.. Just wait for Service pack 1 I'm sure they'll get all the virus and spywware things working.. ;)

Regarding Antivirus software
From what I understand there was a debate.. actually more like a fight.. between ms and the virus people.. if I understood it correctly the virus people won and ms agreed to let them in on that piece of the code that would allow them to bypass all of Vista's fail-safes..

Who else thinks that was a bad idea :)

Ahh yes I forgot to mention.. the difrence in performence as I notice it in games is totally insegnificant.. at least not from my stand point.. and of course I'm not talking about games that I would run at max setting.. I'm talking about the lagy stuff.. both in xp and vista they lag and don't lag at the same settings.. The End.

Even though I think Vista is a step foward, I don't see it as a new OS.. more like Windows XP - Fixed and Shiny release.

On another note has anyone else seen some of the Vista presentasions..
I mean Vista is cool but those presentations totaly s*ck.. they're saying so muuuch stupid stuff.. I mean they're mentioning all the useless over-flashy bits, and miss prezenting all the good stuff.. I mean the buty of aero isn't the fact you can look throw it, it's that it's a adaptive skin.. unlike normal windows skins where if you changed the theme of your desktop the skin just doesn't fit.. but aero's them is determined by the background behind it so it will always fit.. that and the new little tweeks (like the little feathered black border around it) makes the windows look less like out of place small screen and more like a window.. but no.. when they presented it they had to concentrate on how you can see the movie bihind it.. oh the posibilities

As a conclusion.. in Vista..
  • Small stuff and improvements = Win
  • Over Flashy stuff (like search folders) = Total Crap
Quote - Js2756
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My friend tried it over a year ago and it was a disaster. Lousy driver support and lack of 64 bit programs meant it was crashing all the time. Needless to say, he made the switch back to 32 bit XP pretty quick and now only uses it to play games (he's primarily an Ubuntu user now).
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Aha so he didn't succead in creating a Lineage server huh!?
Or was he tring to use it for something else.. ??
Quote - Js2756
--------------------------------------
As for me, I'm still running Win2K, as XP has no features that I need, so why should I bother upgrading? The same mentality will apply with Vista. Until it demonstrates that there is something on it that is needed that is not in either 2K or XP, I'm not upgrading.
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It a lot more stable.. looks nicer.. friendlier for your family.. (I'm wondering why they don't seem to have asked me anything yet.. too.. maybe I was a really good teacher with Xp :) )
On another note, what does Win2k have that Win98 doesn't ?? eh?
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Old 2006-11-16, 17:13   Link #27
Poseidal
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Quote:
On another note, what does Win2k have that Win98 doesn't ?? eh?
Win2k is based on the NT environment, and is completely different in the way it handles how things interact with the hardware. It's much more stable in the end.

WinXP is just Win2K with some extra skins and cosmetic differences.
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Old 2006-11-16, 17:50   Link #28
Nidas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidal View Post
Win2k is based on the NT environment, and is completely different in the way it handles how things interact with the hardware. It's much more stable in the end.
Out of curiosity, if this is the case then why are there still some people on 98? Is it just laziness or whatever, or does 98 handle some things in ways that some people might find more desirable?
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Old 2006-11-17, 00:01   Link #29
Tursiops_G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidas View Post
Out of curiosity, if this is the case then why are there still some people on 98? Is it just laziness or whatever, or does 98 handle some things in ways that some people might find more desirable?
Some folks may have Older Hardware or Software that is not capable of handling Windows Vista, or can not afford the cost of upgrading to Vista...

-Tursiops_G.
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Old 2006-11-17, 00:16   Link #30
basket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII View Post
All my drives got recognised straight off the install..
I know some friends that said that some of theirs didn't get installed staight off (even so everything worked fine)
I fixed that issue by reinstalling the Notebook Manager software, so now I have on-screen display, but the volume control keys on the keyboard (and the mute key) no longer affect the Vista volume controls due to changes in the audio architecture. I think this will be fixed soon, though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII View Post
Even though I think Vista is a step foward, I don't see it as a new OS.. more like Windows XP - Fixed and Shiny release.
Actually, there are a lot of major changes under the hood (not including things like WinFS which got pulled). It's a pity that nearly everyone seems to be focusing only on the visual aspects of Vista.

Also, programs like avast! Antivirus work in Vista. The two major ones that so far don't are Norton and Mcafee. (Hmm, I wonder why? )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidas View Post
Out of curiosity, if this is the case then why are there still some people on 98? Is it just laziness or whatever, or does 98 handle some things in ways that some people might find more desirable?
Another reason is that some people feel 98 is "better for gaming" (in what way this is true, I disagree - but that is totally subjective) because it allows direct hardware access to user-mode programs (and admittedly has much better DOS support as a result) and obviously has less overhead due to not having any security or multi-user features.

The tradeoff is that you get more bluescreens and it's harder to find drivers for recent/new hardware, not to mention that it's been officially EOLed by MS, so you won't get any security updates for it either.
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Old 2006-11-17, 00:56   Link #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidas View Post
Out of curiosity, if this is the case then why are there still some people on 98? Is it just laziness or whatever, or does 98 handle some things in ways that some people might find more desirable?
In addition to what has already been said, win2k is much harder to install and maintain, and is seen as a workstation/business OS. Any system that is running 98/ME now pretty much is intentional or cannot support XP (And therefore definitely not Vista).
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Old 2006-11-17, 10:40   Link #32
felix
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Quote - basket
--------------------------------------
Actually, there are a lot of major changes under the hood (not including things like WinFS which got pulled). It's a pity that nearly everyone seems to be focusing only on the visual aspects of Vista. :heh:
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I second this.. :)
BTW, I think it's all MS's fault.. they totally failed with the publicity..
Before I installed it myself I thought Vista would be some version of Xp with just another skin.. but it's not.. :)
Quote - basket
--------------------------------------
Also, programs like avast! Antivirus work in Vista. The two major ones that so far don't are Norton and Mcafee. (Hmm, I wonder why? :heh:)
--------------------------------------
Add Kaspersky to the list of Vista-Chalanged..
I'll tell you in a few hours how Bitdefender fairs.. ;)
Quote - basket
--------------------------------------
The tradeoff is that you get more bluescreens and it's harder to find drivers for recent/new hardware, not to mention that it's been officially EOLed by MS, so you won't get any security updates for it either. :heh:
--------------------------------------
I always set Automatic Updates to off.. and will more then likely continue this habit with Vista..
I install Service Packs when they come out but AutoUps are a big no-no in my book..
The reason is that each and every time I set it to on the damn win wouldn't last a single week bofere a noticible drop in everything came up.. (crashes ahoy!~) Not to mention that I had to solve a stupid Ciritical-Error every 2 days.. Now withought stupid updates everything always works fine, no random instability no nothing..
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Old 2006-11-19, 17:50   Link #33
felix
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Ok so apparently BitDefender fails Vista as well.. for now..
I hear NOD32 works..

Ahh yes.. if anyone is interested.. Deamon Tools (virtual drive program thingy) works on Vista..

Ok some nice Vista features..
  • Voice recognition.. you, basically, can run ALL your programs using only your microphone.. it's somewhat cool but it feels really really freaky after a while.. especially if someone else is in the room.. and especially if your going throw MS's stupid tutorial.. which is faked BTW.. either that or it perceives cursing as a universal form of communication.
  • Apparently in Vista you can use things like flash memory as extra RAM.. of course it's not better then just getting yourself another stick of RAM, but it's not that bad of an idea.. (I'm not 100% sure on this since I haven't tested it myself..)
  • Vista has something called a start-up blocker.. it basically blocks all programs that are so kind as to place themselves as start-up items (without your explicit permition), like add-blockers you are able to allow them should you wish..
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Old 2006-12-25, 12:09   Link #34
ShinNoNoir
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Well if there's still people thinking about going with Vista, read this first.. who knows, you might change your mind.. i sure did.

Vista's EULA Product Activation Worries
Mark Rasch, 2006-11-20

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/423?ref=rss
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Old 2006-12-25, 12:45   Link #35
npal
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You mean you know of other licenses that compensate ANY damage caused from the software, that allow you to install the software on as many PCs as you want and that there's no need of proof of authenticity to use it? If you find such a software that has a license which includes the above and it's actually GOOD, I'm buying it on the spot. Ok, most software under GNU or GPL license have the 2nd and 3rd part and I've never heard of a developer paying for damage caused by the software on your PC. I believe most commercial software include those 3 statements in their license.

Microsoft just found a way to enforce the license better (worse for us, that is). Other software developers would wish they had Microsoft's expertise on enforcing their own license. I'm not saying that I like it. But even Linux is installed as is, without assurance that it will work and that no damage on productivity will occur. It is of course free and you can install it anywhere without so much as a thought, but it's not as user-friendly as Windows, and I've tried a number of packages, although its biggest problem is that a lot of developers (software and hardware) don't support Linux that well (or at all).

Of course if you only use GNU software, you obviously mind the license, but many of us buy our share of commercial stuff, whose EULA is identical to Vista's license more or less, but we buy them because, sorry, they work faster, better and easier

The major picture of course is that Vista is the first of the line. There are bound to be other software developers that follow the same path, which is bad cause I don't like being monitored all the time but there's not much of a viable alternative.

Of course, being well-versed in computing, if all else fails and the license gets on my nerves to the point of being non-productive, I'll just use Linux. The average user though can't really do that *yet*.
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Old 2006-12-25, 15:23   Link #36
Komataguri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kupop View Post
That's for preactivated versions (ones you get with, say, for example, a Dell or HP). Ones that you buy as OEM copies by themselves restrict the computer to a three-pieces-of-hardware change limit. I've just never tried changing the primary drive before, though...

I've changed mobos, primary harddrives, video cards, optical drives, etc.

I have done it on both OEM Preinstall and OEM Packaged.


All you have to do is call Macroshaft, tell them that device X fried itself, and that you had to replace it. They'll give you the code to enter into the machine that will activate windows.



Just make sure you time it to where your call goes to the european call center, not the indian call center. Indian call center sucks balls [ In my experience: Rude people, Barely understandable, bad service. ]
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Old 2006-12-25, 18:04   Link #37
Jinto
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I will wait until MS has eraticated all the teething problems of this baby (so I'll wait for lets say at least SP1 ). Usually that is indicated by a radical drop in support of earlier Windows versions.
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Old 2006-12-26, 13:30   Link #38
Epyon9283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
You mean you know of other licenses that compensate ANY damage caused from the software, that allow you to install the software on as many PCs as you want and that there's no need of proof of authenticity to use it? If you find such a software that has a license which includes the above and it's actually GOOD, I'm buying it on the spot. Ok, most software under GNU or GPL license have the 2nd and 3rd part and I've never heard of a developer paying for damage caused by the software on your PC. I believe most commercial software include those 3 statements in their license.
No software company in their right minds would ever, ever put a clause in the EULA that compensates the end user for damage. No one even ever warranties that their software won't break. Ask that MS reimburse you for time lost due to Windows problems and see how hard they laugh.

People are just upset at MS now because they're making it more difficult to steal. Think about when you bought a single copy of windows 95, 98 or 2000 and loaded it on all the computers in the house. That was against the EULA and now MS is just making it easier for them to enforce it.

Does it suck having to buy a copy of Windows or Office (especially painful) for each computer in the house? Yes. If you don't like it though do what I, and a growing number of people have done. Switch to something else.
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Old 2006-12-26, 13:36   Link #39
Anh_Minh
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Not compensating for damage incurred while using the software is one thing, but Vista looks like it's designed to do damage. It's like paying hundreds of bucks for the privilege of installing viruses on your machine.

Still, I'm taking it philosophically - I'm not buying Vista at all till I absolutely need it. Maybe I'll just stop playing PC games entirely and switch go all the way to Linux.
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Old 2006-12-27, 01:59   Link #40
samurai666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komataguri View Post
Just make sure you time it to where your call goes to the european call center, not the indian call center.
And how would you do this?
Quote:
Indian call center sucks balls [ In my experience: Rude people, Barely understandable, bad service. ]
I had no problems with the Indian call centers but since I used nlite to reinstall XP, I've had no activation issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epyon9283 View Post
People are just upset at MS now because they're making it more difficult to steal. Think about when you bought a single copy of windows 95, 98 or 2000 and loaded it on all the computers in the house. That was against the EULA and now MS is just making it easier for them to enforce it.
This is completely incorrect. M$ is going far beyond protecting their own license, by implementing various types of restrictions that should only be implemented by individual entities and not the OS itself. Acquiring a M$ product as a student is not expensive at all, but the fact that Vista is surely going to be problematic and ridiculously restrictive has steered me and others away from it. Surely there will be ways to pirate Vista, as every M$ product has been exploited in the past, but for legal users M$ is only making it harder for us.

The bottom line is that M$ should not be including DRM, HDCP, ICT, etc. in their OS, none of that is directly tied to protecting M$'s own intellectual property. Also they have to be foolish to believe that people are going to buy multiple copies of the same software for multiple systems in their home, even if they are the sole user. I won't even get into the upgrade limitations, eventually M$ will dig their own grave with their backwards thinking.
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