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Old 2009-01-15, 04:57   Link #821
Kafriel
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Light defined being lazy as a crime-that was a bad translation really, what he meant was that remaining passive and not helping those in need is bad.To enforce his creed upon the world he had to reign absolute, above all. To that end, he was the "Big brother" who at first terrified everyone, and with time they saw that the world became better, all thanks to him. As Ryuk said in ep1, the only messed up person in the end is Light himself, having killed so many in a world of innate virtue (coz people no longer committed crimes, not only because of the fear of punishment but also because it was better for everyone).
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Old 2009-01-16, 09:36   Link #822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantidor View Post
I was being facetious! I was talking about the direction of the discussion. It's a supernatural scenario so no matter how we treat it there are some points in which we just have to give in to suspension of disbelief, that was all. We can put as much logic as we can of course, but it will obviously end up with some holes, because is about a book that kills people just by writing their names, that alone already defies logic.
In otherwords, there's an extent to the amount of logic that will make this seem even the least be some bit believeable.

You are right there. The only way that something like that would work is if there was a medium. But that would make it nothing more than a hit book then anything else. Oh well. It is an anime, it's not meant to be taken too seriously, I guess.

There's really no proof of gods of death existing, but on the same note, I guess there isn't anything saying there aren't any in existance. These things seem unfathomable by the human mind. You imagination lacker.*shot*

But seriously. You're right, although my point still stands valid.
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Old 2009-01-18, 00:00   Link #823
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I think what light was trying to do was right, its just that he got corrupted with power =/
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Old 2009-01-18, 09:17   Link #824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A wise man
Oogity Boogity
A wise man once said Oogity Boogity. Why He said this nobody knows, but the fact remains that he said it.

ANYWAY.... Light was wrong from the start. Anyone who kills another for any reason, let alone for the very crime that they are comitting, is both a hypocrite and a monster. Now, if he had intended from the start to kill himself (inder the premise that 'gods' cannot live on earth) then this would have been fine, but he did not. He just had an incredibly demented sense of justice.
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Old 2009-01-18, 19:41   Link #825
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I wonder if Kira killed people like Saddam Hussein as well?

Slightly off-topic, how would Kira deal with someone who was given no name (nameless monsters)?
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Old 2009-01-20, 09:43   Link #826
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That is a good question. How would the Death Note kill someone who never received a name, such as an orphan who lived on the streets, and was never taken in by anyone.

Sometimes in Japan they go by birthdays to decide their names, maybe that could be the solution. But the fact still remains that there is no surname..... quite troublesome, actually..... I don't know what would happen in such a situation.
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Old 2009-01-22, 23:04   Link #827
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Originally Posted by Sinfully Naomi View Post
That is a good question. How would the Death Note kill someone who never received a name, such as an orphan who lived on the streets, and was never taken in by anyone.

Sometimes in Japan they go by birthdays to decide their names, maybe that could be the solution. But the fact still remains that there is no surname..... quite troublesome, actually..... I don't know what would happen in such a situation.
Very interesting proposal; I believe however, that this can be answered. Everybody has to have a name of some sort. Now even an orphan would have a name, something in which he/she was called - it does not matter if their name was "it" it would still be the name. Now, I do have another proposal in which has relevance to this. What about an animal? Now, obviously I am not speaking about a cat or dog which adopts human names usually. I am speaking about a tiger, shark or snake. What would happen if you wrote "Tiger Shark" ? Would all the Tiger Sharks die ? (lol)

Now to go back to the original topic of "morality" I believe Death Note has two very debatable virtues throughout. One being morality and the other being justice. Now, I will speak about only morality due to the topic of the thread. Morality, today is debated amongst many on whether it is above the law (Eternal or Divine Law) or is the law the final line (Positive Law). Now you see both characters Light and L take both sides of the argument; Light obviously being for eternal law, seeing morality being much more stronger than the law itself. Light sees it fit to kill criminals to save the world, the law is flawed and he sees to fix it. Now is this moral? Well it depends on how you look at the situation. The Natural law is defined as the unchangeable morality principles to help humanity (Dictionary definition, 2009). The Natural Law is to be believed that human nature will always go in the direction of morality. In which is in many religions a contradiction (Christianity) who believe human nature is corrupted by sin. Now my relevance here is simple; if human nature is to be in accordance to morality, should it be also in accordance to the law in itself? The Eternal Law believes that there is a higher standard to law, in such of morality, so something in which is moral but against the law can be done. Light, believed in this theory I believe... although I do question the morality in killing criminals. L, on the other hand was much more of a Positive Law theorists, in which nothing is above the law, the law is the final line.

From here I could take many directions but I believe I will allow the reader to comment from here; this will give me some solid ground on where to continue.
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Old 2009-01-23, 00:07   Link #828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light_Yamagi_Kira View Post
Very interesting proposal; I believe however, that this can be answered. Everybody has to have a name of some sort. Now even an orphan would have a name, something in which he/she was called - it does not matter if their name was "it" it would still be the name. Now, I do have another proposal in which has relevance to this. What about an animal? Now, obviously I am not speaking about a cat or dog which adopts human names usually. I am speaking about a tiger, shark or snake. What would happen if you wrote "Tiger Shark" ? Would all the Tiger Sharks die ? (lol)

Now to go back to the original topic of "morality" I believe Death Note has two very debatable virtues throughout. One being morality and the other being justice. Now, I will speak about only morality due to the topic of the thread. Morality, today is debated amongst many on whether it is above the law (Eternal or Divine Law) or is the law the final line (Positive Law). Now you see both characters Light and L take both sides of the argument; Light obviously being for eternal law, seeing morality being much more stronger than the law itself. Light sees it fit to kill criminals to save the world, the law is flawed and he sees to fix it. Now is this moral? Well it depends on how you look at the situation. The Natural law is defined as the unchangeable morality principles to help humanity (Dictionary definition, 2009). The Natural Law is to be believed that human nature will always go in the direction of morality. In which is in many religions a contradiction (Christianity) who believe human nature is corrupted by sin. Now my relevance here is simple; if human nature is to be in accordance to morality, should it be also in accordance to the law in itself? The Eternal Law believes that there is a higher standard to law, in such of morality, so something in which is moral but against the law can be done. Light, believed in this theory I believe... although I do question the morality in killing criminals. L, on the other hand was much more of a Positive Law theorists, in which nothing is above the law, the law is the final line.

From here I could take many directions but I believe I will allow the reader to comment from here; this will give me some solid ground on where to continue.
I see.
Light's understanding was much like that of a religious person's. The law of God overrides that of man. but man is flawed and therefore does not cast complete rightious judgment. But if he thought Man's law was so imperfect, him being a human couldn't possibly do much better, could he? The law of God is what we perceive it to be, those things feasible by the human mind alone. Humans can only see God's law and try to make sense out of it.

God's thoughts are not our thoughts, for his ismuch higher. No matter how closely tied to the truth of God he was, he could never truly understand it. He prebably thought that he could, and that was warping his mind, making him think that he had such great genius that it was equal to that of God. Light Yagami was confused. What's even more sad was that someone so gifted confused himself into his own demise.

Don't get me wrong, he was going about peace, but this world is not meant for peace. Peace cannot exist without chaos, and so, if Light had succeeded in becomeing "god" of the new world, only he himself would be corrupt, and would need to be rid of. After that, the only corrupt person in the world would have been gone. What would've happened? I do not know. I suppose someone else would come up and the whole root of corruption would start over again.

And the world would be back where it started. Now that I think about it. What did Light Yagami profit the world? I short time of peace? After tasting the peace, the chaos will only be that much harder to take in. In all honesty, Light's entire cause was probably in vain...
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Old 2009-01-25, 21:47   Link #829
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Quote:
I see.
Light's understanding was much like that of a religious person's. The law of God overrides that of man. but man is flawed and therefore does not cast complete rightious judgment. But if he thought Man's law was so imperfect, him being a human couldn't possibly do much better, could he? The law of God is what we perceive it to be, those things feasible by the human mind alone. Humans can only see God's law and try to make sense out of it.
A strong opening if I must say so myself. You are right although, I question your logic behind Light having the understanding of a religious person. Light was actually the complete opposite to a religious person. Why, well would someone who is religious, some what knowledgeable and humble of a god; would they take such a burden upon themselves in which Light did? Light's hatred for the injustice in the world was self-evident. He proclaimed himself to be the "new god" because for one, it is fair to say Light thought the "old" god failed at this - and with godly powers handed to him why not proclaim such a statue. If you look at the obvious Kira was a god; an icon amongst the people. Kira put his own justice back into the world, whether it was ethical or not. I believe Light/Kira was NOT as you say for Eternal/Divine Law, rather for the Positive Law. Light/Kira believed there was no such thing as morality and Justice and the law was the bottom line. If you disobey you are punished, in these regards to death.



Quote:
God's thoughts are not our thoughts, for his ismuch higher. No matter how closely tied to the truth of God he was, he could never truly understand it. He prebably thought that he could, and that was warping his mind, making him think that he had such great genius that it was equal to that of God. Light Yagami was confused. What's even more sad was that someone so gifted confused himself into his own demise.
This section is off topic, you are in the grounds of the existence of god, in which this is not the case. We are talking about "god-like" statue not like Jesus Christ, or Zues. Light Yamagi, was not confused at any point in this series - he was one of the only characters to not show this emotion at all actually. Light was gifted and was very intelligent, manipulative, compelling and calm - the only demise he had was bad luck and this tyrant power.


Quote:
Don't get me wrong, he was going about peace, but this world is not meant for peace. Peace cannot exist without chaos, and so, if Light had succeeded in becomeing "god" of the new world, only he himself would be corrupt, and would need to be rid of. After that, the only corrupt person in the world would have been gone. What would've happened? I do not know. I suppose someone else would come up and the whole root of corruption would start over again.
Yes Light was going towards peace, in which every world leader, or council is going after (theoretically). What premise or even logic do you have to say this world is not meant for peace? Alright, your claim that you cannot have peace without corruption is fair in it of itself. Nevertheless what would be the issue of Light being the only corrupt? Kira, did nothing outside of his idea of justice; people looked up to him, world wars stopped, 70% of crime reduced. Yes, Kira did kill innocent people but he did it out of his own defense to get where he needed to be. Think of it like this kill a few to save many. The same idea implies, immoral? Maybe, but morality is a different topic in itself.


Quote:
And the world would be back where it started. Now that I think about it. What did Light Yagami profit the world? I short time of peace? After tasting the peace, the chaos will only be that much harder to take in. In all honesty, Light's entire cause was probably in vain...
I'm sorry but this is just weak and not reasonable at all. Light/Kira a profit? Maybe proclaimed by his crazed fans.. Also what facts do you have to say the world would stay at peace for awhile? Nothing of Kira would have or was in vain. Think about this, world leaders, groups, councils, all have said or tried to establish world peace. The justice system does help or try to prevent crime; but how well does it work? Kira, just offered the world another option, one that brought fear into man. Where the criminal actually feared justice, rather mock it. Debatable that Kira was a god, but he was nothing more, nothing less of a god-like icon.

In conclusion I would like to say that Light/Kira, although his ideology was right, and his methods extreme. Nothing would have sufficed for the better because of the power he posed. Kira, was in fact a tyrant, much like Hitler but instead of eliminating the Jews, he took out the criminals; now many would agree that criminals are a much different boat than the Jews. Nevertheless, your argument is not valid.
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Old 2009-01-25, 22:55   Link #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light_Yamagi_Kira View Post
A strong opening if I must say so myself. You are right although, I question your logic behind Light having the understanding of a religious person. Light was actually the complete opposite to a religious person. Why, well would someone who is religious, some what knowledgeable and humble of a god; would they take such a burden upon themselves in which Light did? Light's hatred for the injustice in the world was self-evident. He proclaimed himself to be the "new god" because for one, it is fair to say Light thought the "old" god failed at this - and with godly powers handed to him why not proclaim such a statue. If you look at the obvious Kira was a god; an icon amongst the people. Kira put his own justice back into the world, whether it was ethical or not. I believe Light/Kira was NOT as you say for Eternal/Divine Law, rather for the Positive Law. Light/Kira believed there was no such thing as morality and Justice and the law was the bottom line. If you disobey you are punished, in these regards to death.
I only meant in terms of him thinking that God's law was above that of man's. And you still cannot deny the fact that Light was a man, therefore he had flawed judgment.





Quote:
This section is off topic, you are in the grounds of the existence of god, in which this is not the case. We are talking about "god-like" statue not like Jesus Christ, or Zues. Light Yamagi, was not confused at any point in this series - he was one of the only characters to not show this emotion at all actually. Light was gifted and was very intelligent, manipulative, compelling and calm - the only demise he had was bad luck and this tyrant power.
I will not disagree with you there.




Quote:
Yes Light was going towards peace, in which every world leader, or council is going after (theoretically). What premise or even logic do you have to say this world is not meant for peace? Alright, your claim that you cannot have peace without corruption is fair in it of itself. Nevertheless what would be the issue of Light being the only corrupt? Kira, did nothing outside of his idea of justice; people looked up to him, world wars stopped, 70% of crime reduced. Yes, Kira did kill innocent people but he did it out of his own defense to get where he needed to be. Think of it like this kill a few to save many. The same idea implies, immoral? Maybe, but morality is a different topic in itself.
Hmmmm.... I have to think about this for a second...... If the world were'nt meant for peace...... Hmmm.... Well.... I can only offer a theory on it. Only if you're willing to read it, though...




Quote:
I'm sorry but this is just weak and not reasonable at all. Light/Kira a profit? Maybe proclaimed by his crazed fans.. Also what facts do you have to say the world would stay at peace for awhile? Nothing of Kira would have or was in vain. Think about this, world leaders, groups, councils, all have said or tried to establish world peace. The justice system does help or try to prevent crime; but how well does it work? Kira, just offered the world another option, one that brought fear into man. Where the criminal actually feared justice, rather mock it. Debatable that Kira was a god, but he was nothing more, nothing less of a god-like icon.

In conclusion I would like to say that Light/Kira, although his ideology was right, and his methods extreme. Nothing would have sufficed for the better because of the power he posed. Kira, was in fact a tyrant, much like Hitler but instead of eliminating the Jews, he took out the criminals; now many would agree that criminals are a much different boat than the Jews. Nevertheless, your argument is not valid.
I know, I derived far from the topic at hand.

But, I have to say. Yes, profit. What would the world gain from Light Yagami's actions? The world is a large place, even though they said people were scared straight, there had to be at least one person left who could've wrecked hell of the earth. And everyone else would be too scared to defend themselves for fear that they may be in the wrong, and be killed by Kira.

What would Light even do after defeating Near? Reveal the fact that he was Kira? If so, what about after he dies? Who could tell what would happen then? Even if there was world peace, there would still be someone who was poor, and needed something, and had to resort to drastic measures to get it.
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Old 2009-01-26, 16:45   Link #831
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I know, I derived far from the topic at hand.

But, I have to say. Yes, profit. What would the world gain from Light Yagami's actions? The world is a large place, even though they said people were scared straight, there had to be at least one person left who could've wrecked hell of the earth. And everyone else would be too scared to defend themselves for fear that they may be in the wrong, and be killed by Kira.

What would Light even do after defeating Near? Reveal the fact that he was Kira? If so, what about after he dies? Who could tell what would happen then? Even if there was world peace, there would still be someone who was poor, and needed something, and had to resort to drastic measures to get it.
The world would be without criminal law. The evil physicality would be abolished, that is what Kira would have done for the world - cure physical evil. Why would Light ever reveal himself to be Kira, he wouldn't need to. Until of course all the world leaders, councils and justice system issues peace with Kira and was willing to negotiate some mutual agreement. Whether this is a realistic theory or not it is still reasonable to assume. When he dies? Light was young he would have served a long rain. Once he would die of course he would pass on his power to his child. Much like any tyrant would, Misa knew about it, Light would of course create his son with his genes and design him mentally to take the task.

Well if you talk about peoples needs that is much different than the injustice created by many others. Kira, seemly did not care about petty crimes, rather ones of drastic measure. I believe Kira would still, account his power and authority against them, but yet again.. man's biggest fear is the fear of punishment.
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Old 2009-01-26, 21:41   Link #832
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To answer the question you would first have to establish a clear definition of right and wrong. Is it wrong to kill? Yes. Is it wrong to kill a criminal? We've been using the death penalty since the beginning of time. Such questions have no answers, as they always have exceptions to the rule. Therefore this entire manga/anime exists in a grey area.

I, for one, believe that if Light had succeeded with his plan that the end would have fully justified the means. There would be no crime and everyone would live in harmony. How can that be wrong? If evil men are what keeps the word from being what it could be then what purpose do they serve. If i had the death note i would have carried out everything in much the same way as Light...until he allowed L to be killed. This is where Light becomes the bad guy.

Up until L's death, Light only killed criminals and those that the world would be better off without, but L's death started something else. Light had to start to cover his tracks and as a result, killed many innocent people who only thought they were doing what was best. This goes against the very idea with which he started. Light has now become the criminal that must be killed, and has lost sight of his initial utopian vision.

The saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely" is very true in this case. I doubt that there are many people who could use this power for good without allowing it to go to their head and corrupt them. If the death note is to be used effectively, it must not be used for personal gain of any sort. If Light would not have joined the task force in order to get close to L, then he would have likely been cleared as a suspect and could have continued with his original plan with little interference.
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Old 2009-01-27, 04:26   Link #833
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Originally Posted by Light_Yamagi_Kira View Post
Very interesting proposal; I believe however, that this can be answered. Everybody has to have a name of some sort. Now even an orphan would have a name, something in which he/she was called - it does not matter if their name was "it" it would still be the name. Now, I do have another proposal in which has relevance to this. What about an animal? Now, obviously I am not speaking about a cat or dog which adopts human names usually. I am speaking about a tiger, shark or snake. What would happen if you wrote "Tiger Shark" ? Would all the Tiger Sharks die ? (lol)
The Death Note cannot kill animals. It's written in the first rule, the "human" who's name is written in this notebook shall die. Also, all animals don't have the same face.

To understand how to kill a nameless orphan would require knowledge of how the Death Note kills someone with only a name and a face. Maybe all you need is to think of their face and write a cause of death? What about the case of identical twins with the same name, would both of them die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantidor
We can put as much logic as we can of course, but it will obviously end up with some holes, because is about a book that kills people just by writing their names, that alone already defies logic.
This guy is exactly right. Questions concerning what would happen if you tried to kill this or that with the Death Note will always require an extensive knowledge of how the Death Note works, how ink, makeup, dirt, or blood in a pattern on a paper would kill a person miles away with a heart attack, or how it could write/rewrite the future.

Back to the topic at hand:
Light and L are both good, and at he same time both Evil. One of the creators said this: "Light was very evil", "L was also somewhat evil", "Only Souichirou was justice"

Since the series followed Light, and his thought and actions more than L's, and since he seems to be more popular in this thread I think I'll talk about him.

First, we would need to know what happened after the last chapter. With Kira dead, and the only Death Notes with Near, we can assume there won't be another kira (well, actually Misa buried some pages in a box in the forest when she made the second deal, but that's a whole new can of worms). What would Near have done? The world has already been cleansed. Kira was only writing a few names every day, or at least I would hope so after so many years. Near would try to maintain this peace, but then people would begin to doubt kira's existence. They would eventually stop believing altogether, and only a handful of hardcore kira fans would still think he was there.

I forgot where I was going with this...
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Old 2009-01-27, 05:28   Link #834
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Originally Posted by Light_Yamagi_Kira View Post
The world would be without criminal law. The evil physicality would be abolished, that is what Kira would have done for the world - cure physical evil. Why would Light ever reveal himself to be Kira, he wouldn't need to. Until of course all the world leaders, councils and justice system issues peace with Kira and was willing to negotiate some mutual agreement. Whether this is a realistic theory or not it is still reasonable to assume. When he dies? Light was young he would have served a long rain. Once he would die of course he would pass on his power to his child. Much like any tyrant would, Misa knew about it, Light would of course create his son with his genes and design him mentally to take the task.

Well if you talk about peoples needs that is much different than the injustice created by many others. Kira, seemly did not care about petty crimes, rather ones of drastic measure. I believe Kira would still, account his power and authority against them, but yet again.. man's biggest fear is the fear of punishment.
He could mentally prepare the child all he wanted, but what if the child still refused to take on that role? Not every child is willing to follow in their father's footsteps, Light didn't do that for his father.

My meaning of that being, yes, Light did kill criminals, something his father must have had to do time and time again being a man of police, but Soichiro Yagami was against the acts of Kira, and Light being Kira went against the wishes of his father. Of course you can say, but he still did them for the greater good, but even then his father still disagreed with the deaths of the criminals, and deaths of most other people for that matter. This was mostly seen at the time when they were investigating Yotsuba.

Light didn't follow exactly in his father's footsteps, there could be a chance that his child wouldn't do so for him either. Or, what if he even had a child with a thought train like that of L's or Near's? What then would Light do? Sure, he could have more children, but if this happens to be the first child who thinks like this, then that couldn't end too well, because younger siblings tend to follow their older siblings, sometimes even more than their parents.
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Old 2009-01-28, 15:57   Link #835
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Originally Posted by Ravhen View Post
To answer the question you would first have to establish a clear definition of right and wrong. Is it wrong to kill? Yes. Is it wrong to kill a criminal? We've been using the death penalty since the beginning of time. Such questions have no answers, as they always have exceptions to the rule. Therefore this entire manga/anime exists in a grey area.

I, for one, believe that if Light had succeeded with his plan that the end would have fully justified the means. There would be no crime and everyone would live in harmony. How can that be wrong? If evil men are what keeps the word from being what it could be then what purpose do they serve. If i had the death note i would have carried out everything in much the same way as Light...until he allowed L to be killed. This is where Light becomes the bad guy.

Up until L's death, Light only killed criminals and those that the world would be better off without, but L's death started something else. Light had to start to cover his tracks and as a result, killed many innocent people who only thought they were doing what was best. This goes against the very idea with which he started. Light has now become the criminal that must be killed, and has lost sight of his initial utopian vision.

The saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely" is very true in this case. I doubt that there are many people who could use this power for good without allowing it to go to their head and corrupt them. If the death note is to be used effectively, it must not be used for personal gain of any sort. If Light would not have joined the task force in order to get close to L, then he would have likely been cleared as a suspect and could have continued with his original plan with little interference.

I can understand where you are coming from but you're not really convincing. Is it wrong to kill? You answer "yes" why is that? Morality is grey in of itself. A perfect example is if you look at the animal world, animals fight and kill to survive. Now of course we do not have to live in these extremes because we have reasoning. Nevertheless, what about self-defense; does that count as "wrong"? Now on the idea of Capital Punishment, it is much different than what Kira was doing. For one Capital Punishment is lawful, what Kira did was not, nevertheless was is effective. I believe it was; our (realities) legal system is flawed, Kira's law was not.

I agree with your second paragraph nonetheless. Now, come your third paragraph you change your percept of Light/Kira. I disagree, Light never changed at all throughout the series, other than a power-trip of a tyrant-ego. You forget Light had a self-proclaim duty - in which at any means to complete. People like L, Rey, and many others became an obstacle for Light, logic tells you to eliminate that. Although he never lost sight of his ideal utopian vision as you say - he simply always got side tracked.

Your conclusion is effective enough, I agree with it. Although do not make your claim seem absolute because you can not assume everybody in Light's position would become corrupt of tyranny. If one was able to suffice this and become logical clear and make no mistake in his/her actions, I believe it could be done.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkazor View Post
The Death Note cannot kill animals. It's written in the first rule, the "human" who's name is written in this notebook shall die. Also, all animals don't have the same face.

To understand how to kill a nameless orphan would require knowledge of how the Death Note kills someone with only a name and a face. Maybe all you need is to think of their face and write a cause of death? What about the case of identical twins with the same name, would both of them die?



This guy is exactly right. Questions concerning what would happen if you tried to kill this or that with the Death Note will always require an extensive knowledge of how the Death Note works, how ink, makeup, dirt, or blood in a pattern on a paper would kill a person miles away with a heart attack, or how it could write/rewrite the future.

Back to the topic at hand:
Light and L are both good, and at he same time both Evil. One of the creators said this: "Light was very evil", "L was also somewhat evil", "Only Souichirou was justice"

Since the series followed Light, and his thought and actions more than L's, and since he seems to be more popular in this thread I think I'll talk about him.

First, we would need to know what happened after the last chapter. With Kira dead, and the only Death Notes with Near, we can assume there won't be another kira (well, actually Misa buried some pages in a box in the forest when she made the second deal, but that's a whole new can of worms). What would Near have done? The world has already been cleansed. Kira was only writing a few names every day, or at least I would hope so after so many years. Near would try to maintain this peace, but then people would begin to doubt kira's existence. They would eventually stop believing altogether, and only a handful of hardcore kira fans would still think he was there.

I forgot where I was going with this...
Ah well said, and good catch! To answer your question on the identical twin, I believe it would not count, much like someone with the same name. They equal each other out.

Now onward with your good and evil claim, it's true but I believe their evil you claim is rather pride and ambition.

You have a good question, in which what happens next. I believe Near, (pure speculation) but I believe he announces Kira's captive and death. He wants people to know Kira was a criminal and not a god, that he could be defeated, self-pride as well. Near then becomes the new L, of course. Things go back to the way they were. Criminals have no fear, BUT are probably more wary because they know this super-natural power exists and if someone else was to do the same. Nevertheless criminals would just look to the irony of Near (L) to save them. Oh the Irony!






Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinfully Naomi View Post
He could mentally prepare the child all he wanted, but what if the child still refused to take on that role? Not every child is willing to follow in their father's footsteps, Light didn't do that for his father.

My meaning of that being, yes, Light did kill criminals, something his father must have had to do time and time again being a man of police, but Soichiro Yagami was against the acts of Kira, and Light being Kira went against the wishes of his father. Of course you can say, but he still did them for the greater good, but even then his father still disagreed with the deaths of the criminals, and deaths of most other people for that matter. This was mostly seen at the time when they were investigating Yotsuba.

Light didn't follow exactly in his father's footsteps, there could be a chance that his child wouldn't do so for him either. Or, what if he even had a child with a thought train like that of L's or Near's? What then would Light do? Sure, he could have more children, but if this happens to be the first child who thinks like this, then that couldn't end too well, because younger siblings tend to follow their older siblings, sometimes even more than their parents.
Yes, you are correct that every child does not want to follow in their fathers foot-steps; nonetheless I think it is fair to say this is not like every situation. Such power, and having your father be so powerful and from birth being taught the skills of manipulation and such. I find it hard to believe his son or daughter would not carry on Light's work. Light, did follow his fathers foot-steps, he did! Just in different measures, Light's father was a police, devoted his life to justice and defeating criminals. Light, had much respect for his father and did the same; the difference is Light was not ignorant of the law. He knew the flaws, the corruption his beloved legal system had. So what did Light do, he took the burden into his own hands - immoral or morally; he did it, for the greater good. Actually anyone who believes anything is allowed in accordance to the greater good would agree with Light's actions. And of course your conclusion is just off-topic, sorry but you ranted on.
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Old 2009-01-28, 18:29   Link #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light_Yamagi_Kira View Post
Yes, you are correct that every child does not want to follow in their fathers foot-steps; nonetheless I think it is fair to say this is not like every situation. Such power, and having your father be so powerful and from birth being taught the skills of manipulation and such. I find it hard to believe his son or daughter would not carry on Light's work. Light, did follow his fathers foot-steps, he did! Just in different measures, Light's father was a police, devoted his life to justice and defeating criminals. Light, had much respect for his father and did the same; the difference is Light was not ignorant of the law. He knew the flaws, the corruption his beloved legal system had. So what did Light do, he took the burden into his own hands - immoral or morally; he did it, for the greater good. Actually anyone who believes anything is allowed in accordance to the greater good would agree with Light's actions. And of course your conclusion is just off-topic, sorry but you ranted on.
True. But who knows if Light would've even lived long enough to have a child? Just because he was young doesn't mean he couldn't have died the very next day. You did assume that because Light was a young person, he would live a long life, but no one really knows how long Light could've lived had he succeeded.
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Old 2009-01-28, 22:34   Link #837
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You're right to point out my assumption; although it is a common sense assumption. If one is young you assume they will live much longer than someone of middle age, correct? Light was no sick in health and really had no enemies due to his low radar. So I believe it's safe to say he wasn't going to die anytime soon. Unless of course Ryku decided to write his name in his Death Note like he did. Although you then would have to assume Ryku had that planned from the start.
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Old 2009-01-29, 00:35   Link #838
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But you're still accounting other people(none, if so all dead now) Who may want to harm Light into this. Or even his physical health. "Death works in mysterious ways" He could've been accidentally struck by a car, fallen over a cliff, ect. other means on death. There was no proof that he would die in sickness or old age.

But then again, my saying that makes me a hypocrite, doesn't it? Pointing out your assumption, but then making an assumption of my own. I think it's safe to say that there was never a 100% chance that thing would have worked out how Light wanted them to, no matter how well he planned out things, how well he prepared, ect.[/off topic]

Anyway, there was no way to account for what Light's cause of death may have been.
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Old 2009-01-30, 19:42   Link #839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravhen View Post

I, for one, believe that if Light had succeeded with his plan that the end would have fully justified the means. There would be no crime and everyone would live in harmony. How can that be wrong?
Well he was not just picking off killers, but low time criminals as well and you know the saying everyone deserves a second chance. People are only human so they are bound to commit wrongs in their life. Also these people Light was killing I'm sure had families that would miss them and there would be some suffering inflicted on family members of those killed. Also I truly believe you can not truly call one evil since evil is not just black and white. What one person considers good another could consider bad. Its all situational just like the reasons behind why crimes are commited are situational. Thats why there is a justice system that determines the level of the crime and the level of the punishment, so people have a chance to serve there time and get a second chance at life. Of course the form of Justice is distributed differently in some countries, but its easy to tell which ones are too harsh. Would it be fair to them and their families to just have them be killed regardless of the criminal act. I wouldn't nessecarily call that living in harmony, but living in fear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravhen View Post

Up until L's death, Light only killed criminals and those that the world would be better off without, but L's death started something else. Light had to start to cover his tracks and as a result, killed many innocent people who only thought they were doing what was best.
Light was killing innocent people to cover his tracks well before he killed L. All those FBI agents.
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Old 2009-02-01, 08:23   Link #840
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Like others have said there are many laws in places that don't apply elsewhere. Forced marriage is allowed in one country, but not in another. In Muslim societies you can't drink alcohol, but elsewhere you can. In japan, you cannot show full nudity, elsewhere you can. As Ryuk said, "If you keep doing that, the only one left with a bad personality will be you. (vol. 1, ch. 1)
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