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Old 2009-09-10, 03:31   Link #2101
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
I always found it curious that Shirley's dad didn't think to leave. Sure, it was a surprise attack, but they had the town mostly surrounded. You'd think he'd notice and leave as a precaution.

Anyway, good thing there's no hell, just the sweet, communal embrace of hive mind Jupiter.
Yeah, until Kallen finds Shirley and her dad there. That'd be all kinds of cosmic awkward.

As for him not leaving, I imagine when the defending army lays siege to your town and the surrounding mountainside, things get hectic. Its possible that he was in the middle of evacuating when Zero gave the order to bury Cornelia's army.

Another possibility is that he didn't think that the battle would last that long or get that out of hand--it was Cornelia, one of Britannia's top generals, against the ragtag JLF. I don't think anyone expected Zero to appear and bury half the army and the town with it.
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Old 2009-09-10, 15:25   Link #2102
CapoExecutor
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Yeah about the only reason I can see Kallen going to hell would be for offing Shirley's dad, even if it was an accident and at Zero's order.
One doesn't sin if they don't know the conditions first hand. But if Kallen knew that Shirley's dad was there, then perhaps hell heats up for Kallen. Simply put, it was a tragic accident beyond control.
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Old 2009-09-10, 16:28   Link #2103
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Originally Posted by CapoExecutor View Post
One doesn't sin if they don't know the conditions first hand. But if Kallen knew that Shirley's dad was there, then perhaps hell heats up for Kallen. Simply put, it was a tragic accident beyond control.
I know it was something she had no control over. All I'm saying is that's the only thing we can really see as something she did that was remotely "wrong". The rest of her deeds were done against soldiers during a time of war.
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Old 2009-09-10, 16:33   Link #2104
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Originally Posted by ryohei View Post
I watch R2 Ep14 again, and read some Japanese sites, and I think that...
Before Lelouch had Geass, Batley and Clovis had a information 'there is a immortal witch somewhere' and they caught her.
But this does not means they know plans about Code-R.
By chance, with no relations to Charls's plan, they know C.C.
So, for them, C.C. was a just a immortal one, not a keyperson of Charls's plan.
This is my conclusion:Batley and Clovis didn't know Charls's plans AT ALL.
*nods her head*
Makes sense. Thank you! *-*

Quote:
Betrayer, or enemy for Lelouch, idiot for many person in that world, but for Euphie and some people who knows him, Clovis was gentle person.
You wild fox's love to Clovis makes me like him! haha. I WAS also think he is an idiot as text of history in that world maybe write.
Aw. xD
Yes, I love Clovis to bits. He's just so awesome.
...And I'm a hopeless fangirl, but that's all right. xD
I still don't get how people who listened to the Sound Drama can consider him "below average intelligence", though. I mean, he obviously didn't do too bad playing against Lelouch.
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Old 2009-09-11, 23:02   Link #2105
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I know it was something she had no control over. All I'm saying is that's the only thing we can really see as something she did that was remotely "wrong". The rest of her deeds were done against soldiers during a time of war.
You speak as if Shirley's dad was the only civilian casualty of Kallen's actions. I'm sure there must have been others that died in the landslide. Unless Shirley's dad really was the only one. I can see it now...

Medic: [To Shirley and her mother] I'm afraid he died from suffocation after being buried in the landslide. Incidentally, he was the only civilian killed by the during the incident. What's more, the circumstances surrounding his death are quite peculiar as the odds of him dying were incredibly small. We had given the order to evacuate the city and we managed to get everyone out in about 20 minutes, but for some reason he was still in the city 1 hour after the fact. Also, even after the landslide, he was only covered by about 5 inches of dirt. I can't imagine why he wouldn't be able to break through. I don't know what to say. I guess God must hate you. Well, if you'll excuse me I need to be getting home to my family.
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Old 2009-09-11, 23:07   Link #2106
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Well yeah, there was likely other civilian casualties from the landslide, but Mr. Fenette's the only one we, the viewers, know about, and that's where we connect. The father of one important character versus an unknown number of... faceless unknowns? Admit it, none of the other viewers really care about the others; its Fenette that we focus on when we consider the casualties of that event.
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Old 2009-09-11, 23:34   Link #2107
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Well yeah, there was likely other civilian casualties from the landslide, but Mr. Fenette's the only one we, the viewers, know about, and that's where we connect. The father of one important character versus an unknown number of... faceless unknowns? Admit it, none of the other viewers really care about the others; its Fenette that we focus on when we consider the casualties of that event.
Yes, and you said that killing Shirley's father was the only thing we could conceive as being wrong on Kallen's part. However, I'd say, going by that logic, Kallen is also in the wrong for that too because whether the civilians killed were people we knew or not they were still innocent civilians. I mean, we condemn Lelouch for killing countless innocent civilians, right? (most of us anyway)
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Old 2009-09-11, 23:45   Link #2108
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There couldn't have been that many civilians killed in that landslide. Even considering that it hit the town by accident, most of the town was locked down beforehand, and people were leaving. The victims were largely soldiers.
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Old 2009-09-11, 23:51   Link #2109
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There couldn't have been that many civilians killed in that landslide. Even considering that it hit the town by accident, most of the town was locked down beforehand, and people were leaving. The victims were largely soldiers.
Look guys, all I'm saying is that Kallen isn't in the wrong just for killing Shirley's father, she's also in the wrong for killing any and all civilians that were killed on account of the landslide, whether it was 5 civilians or 500 civilians. Can we agree on that?

Personally, I have my own beliefs on whether or not Kallen's actions throughout the series were wrong or not, but I'm just going by the logic that Kallen can be blamed (or at least partially blamed) for Shirley's father's death.
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Old 2009-09-12, 00:42   Link #2110
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Lelouch bears the most blame considering the pla was his to begin with, but it is true that Kallen bears some of the blame as well. Although they really never thought the landslide would turn out as destructive as it did.
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Old 2009-09-12, 00:53   Link #2111
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I'm just saying, we, as the audience, only see Kallen commit one "sin" and that's the landslide. And as I said before, it was at Zero's orders and the military structure holds him responsible, not Kallen. That's all I'm saying.

But further discussion of this really does need to be ported over to a more appropriate thread.
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Old 2009-09-12, 03:41   Link #2112
Lolipopo
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Yes, and you said that killing Shirley's father was the only thing we could conceive as being wrong on Kallen's part. However, I'd say, going by that logic, Kallen is also in the wrong for that too because whether the civilians killed were people we knew or not they were still innocent civilians. I mean, we condemn Lelouch for killing countless innocent civilians, right? (most of us anyway)
By this logic the whole cast is to be blamed. Even britannian civilians for stealing Japan to japanese and giving them reason to fight (yeah, extrapolation...)
You can't blame a soldier for killing when it's war, it's killed or be killed, simple as that.

And I don't think Kallen killing Shirley's dad is her "one sin". She certainly killed load of civilians, cause like Lulu said in stage 13, blood had to be shed. Shirley's father just happened to be named because he was her father, this action doesn't turn as her "one sin" just because he was Shirley's father.

She is responsible for taking the life of many people, and that's it. It was war, what can we say.
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Old 2009-09-12, 04:03   Link #2113
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while this debate may be interesting
this is not a discussion thread
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Old 2009-09-12, 10:14   Link #2114
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Killing is obviously bad but there's are differences between combat KIA, murder, and accidental.

Either way, it stains one's consciousness regardless of the before-the-fact or after-the-fact.
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Old 2009-09-12, 10:39   Link #2115
bladeofdarkness
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how about we move this to the kallen thread
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Old 2009-09-12, 12:20   Link #2116
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Just finished watching the series(top anime on my list), can't really accept it but, is Lelouch really dead? D;
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Old 2009-09-12, 12:23   Link #2117
Rising Dragon
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Just finished watching the series(top anime on my list), can't really accept it but, is Lelouch really dead? D;
Yes, he's dead. Confirmed six times over.
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Old 2009-09-12, 12:31   Link #2118
bladeofdarkness
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Yes, he's dead. Confirmed six times over.
and not in the "he's dead... for now" kind of dead
this is the "he's so dead you could stuff and mount him over the fireplace" kind of dead
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:06   Link #2119
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Nuuuuuuuu, another question: I was lurking around and I see Meimi is tagged in some of CC's pix in Danbooru, is that her name or what?
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:09   Link #2120
Rising Dragon
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Nuuuuuuuu, another question: I was lurking around and I see Meimi is tagged in some of CC's pix in Danbooru, is that her name or what?
The tag's for something else; C.C.'s name was never revealed and likely never will.
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