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Old 2013-09-16, 03:48   Link #2541
Xander
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Originally Posted by Scherzo09 View Post
My understanding though is that Clovis was acting under Schniezel's orders, and that basically no one but the Emperor and his select cadre had access to the Geass Order, which is why Schniezel was running Code R to begin with. But I mean like the Emperor is exhilarated when Lelouch has the guts to pull the trigger on Euphemia; how exactly does that figure into his plan? Maybe Lelouch's Geass was the key to activating Akasha, and the Emperor was trying to provoke Lelouch into a state of utter despair and bitterness at the world he'd gladly go along with his plan.
The impression I got was that Schneizel knew something about what Clovis was doing, or at least had looked into it, but didn't really become the direct patron of Code R until his brother's untimely death when he eventually put Bartley and the surviving scientists under his protection. Which were later "taken in" by V.V. during early to mid-R2.

I think the Emperor was simply impressed by just how ruthless Lelouch had become, since Britannia is all about cutthroat competition for the throne. It's what Charles apparently honestly hates about Britannia too, but also what is necessary to obtain power and probably comparable to his own actions in years past. V.V. also remarks (in another episode) that Lelouch reminds him a bit of Charles.

Not sure if we can say that means they predicted or manipulated his every move to do what you've said, one way or another, but at the very least they were observing him closely.
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Old 2013-09-16, 10:15   Link #2542
Scherzo09
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Originally Posted by Xander View Post
The impression I got was that Schneizel knew something about what Clovis was doing, or at least had looked into it, but didn't really become the direct patron of Code R until his brother's untimely death when he eventually put Bartley and the surviving scientists under his protection. Which were later "taken in" by V.V. during early to mid-R2.

I think the Emperor was simply impressed by just how ruthless Lelouch had become, since Britannia is all about cutthroat competition for the throne. It's what Charles apparently honestly hates about Britannia too, but also what is necessary to obtain power and probably comparable to his own actions in years past. V.V. also remarks (in another episode) that Lelouch reminds him a bit of Charles.

Not sure if we can say that means they predicted or manipulated his every move to do what you've said, one way or another, but at the very least they were observing him closely.
I guess to me it doesn't make much sense for Code R to be instigated by Clovis, who doesn't strike me as a person who'd be interested in or even knowledgeable about Geass, since he's like the textbook definition of a Second Son. Schniezel is the type who strikes me as having ambitions to overthrow his Father at some point, so to me it makes more sense for him to be interested in it from the beginning.

With Charles I just feel they give off so many "Everything is proceeding exactly as I have forseen it" vibes, like Lelouch getting Geass in the first place, which to me implies he had to factor into Charles plan somehow. I mean obviously Charles knew about Code R and could have acted at any time to secure CC, but I felt they made it out so that Lelouch and CC's meeting had been planned.
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Old 2013-09-16, 15:00   Link #2543
Scherzo09
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I kinda would want to make this topic its own thread, but I don't think this subforum is active enough to warrant it, but I'm kind of curious about re-imagining the Chinese Federation.

Tbh I think their portrayal in R2 is a complete derailment. In R1, though rarely seen, was alluded to being an analogous to the irl PRC (Charles line about the 'Equal distribution of Wealth'), and I felt like having some sort of Communist Dictatorship as the Third Great Power as a balance against Britannia was interesting. But in R2 they're turned into this racist caricature of Imperial China, with a Loli Empress and friggin Eunuchs running the show.

Honestly I would have rather seen the initial idea developed. That doesn't mean China can't have an Empress; I was thinking instead of the Eunuchs, the power in China would be the Communist Party bureaucracy, with the Empress as a figurehead. The Empress would still be young, but more like late teens or early 20s, and be a shrewd political operator who uses her limited powers to her advantage.

I'm not really focused on how R2 would be changed to accommodate it, I just feel that a more nuanced China would've benefited worldbuilding.
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Old 2013-09-16, 15:28   Link #2544
Blackmambauk
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Originally Posted by Scherzo09 View Post
I kinda would want to make this topic its own thread, but I don't think this subforum is active enough to warrant it, but I'm kind of curious about re-imagining the Chinese Federation.

Tbh I think their portrayal in R2 is a complete derailment. In R1, though rarely seen, was alluded to being an analogous to the irl PRC (Charles line about the 'Equal distribution of Wealth'), and I felt like having some sort of Communist Dictatorship as the Third Great Power as a balance against Britannia was interesting. But in R2 they're turned into this racist caricature of Imperial China, with a Loli Empress and friggin Eunuchs running the show.

Honestly I would have rather seen the initial idea developed. That doesn't mean China can't have an Empress; I was thinking instead of the Eunuchs, the power in China would be the Communist Party bureaucracy, with the Empress as a figurehead. The Empress would still be young, but more like late teens or early 20s, and be a shrewd political operator who uses her limited powers to her advantage.

I'm not really focused on how R2 would be changed to accommodate it, I just feel that a more nuanced China would've benefited worldbuilding.
Yeah I agree with you on this topic, China was a wasted faction in R2, the whole arc of it was rushed, not enough on China nor why the eunuch's are in power to begin with if things are that bad there, least Britannia keeps most of it's populace happy or somewhat happy, (though that is debateable) and to be honest the high eunuch's were really rubbish villains, though that probably was the intent.

Am myself doing some work on the Chinese federation in my fic called Colorless Memories sidestories. which I'm with a fanfiction writer called NSBleach00 who writes the main fic, Colorless Memories it's on fanfiction. As he has a Chin arc coming up in his story.

Plan to go more into the Chinese federation, show some of their secret service men had a hand in things, as I'm currently doing an arc on Zero rebuilding a liberated Japan, where I will have the Chinese watch how things are proceeding in Japan, where I'm going into the Kyoto houses (especially Kirihara) and show how Japan had problems before Britannia conquered it, since the main character of Colorless memories is Rai from lost colors and his family in this fic (Kaguya's family the Sumeragi's) have a link to Geass that stretches back a long way, plus hint of how Genbu's actions before Britannia invaded helped to screw relations up between china and japan.

Should be great to explore which I am enjoying doing. more worldbuilding as you would say.

But yeah your right, china was a totally wasted part of Code Geass along with the EU as well.
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Old 2013-09-16, 15:51   Link #2545
Scherzo09
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I just don't like the structure that's presented in R2. The Eunuchs are just stupid, the Empress is PedoBait, and most of the characters just represent this very exotified idea of China. I think they had planned on China being more down to earth, as implied by the speech at Clovis' funeral, but that was thrown away with all the rewrites for R2.
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Old 2013-09-16, 16:15   Link #2546
Xander
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But yeah your right, china was a totally wasted part of Code Geass along with the EU as well.
The EU was essentially non-existent and off-screen, rather than wasted, which is actually better since they finally have the time to improve it with Akito the Exiled.

You can't say the same thing about the Chinese Federation. No matter what they do, further official works are restricted by the fact it's ruled by a child empress and a bunch of evil Eunuchs. Thus I didn't care for China's portrayal either, but it's honestly way outside my area of expertise or personal experience.
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Old 2013-09-16, 16:19   Link #2547
Scherzo09
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The EU was essentially non-existent and off-screen, rather than wasted, which is actually better since they finally have the time to improve it with Akito the Exiled.

You can't say the same thing about the Chinese Federation. No matter what they do, further official works are restricted by the fact it's ruled by a child empress and a bunch of evil Eunuchs. Thus I didn't care for China's portrayal either, but it's honestly way outside my area of expertise or personal experience.
Its just dumb worldbuilding imo.

Anyways I don't think the Chinese Federation will ever be explored because of those reasons. Whereas EU and Britannia have much more room for depth, the Chinese Federation is just a collection of tropes about Imperial China thrown together.

All I'm saying is it would've been cooler if they had went with what seemed to be the tone of China in R1 instead of throwing it out.
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Old 2013-09-17, 22:03   Link #2548
kaiser11492
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Originally Posted by Scherzo09 View Post
I kinda would want to make this topic its own thread, but I don't think this subforum is active enough to warrant it, but I'm kind of curious about re-imagining the Chinese Federation.

Tbh I think their portrayal in R2 is a complete derailment. In R1, though rarely seen, was alluded to being an analogous to the irl PRC (Charles line about the 'Equal distribution of Wealth'), and I felt like having some sort of Communist Dictatorship as the Third Great Power as a balance against Britannia was interesting. But in R2 they're turned into this racist caricature of Imperial China, with a Loli Empress and friggin Eunuchs running the show.

Honestly I would have rather seen the initial idea developed. That doesn't mean China can't have an Empress; I was thinking instead of the Eunuchs, the power in China would be the Communist Party bureaucracy, with the Empress as a figurehead. The Empress would still be young, but more like late teens or early 20s, and be a shrewd political operator who uses her limited powers to her advantage.

I'm not really focused on how R2 would be changed to accommodate it, I just feel that a more nuanced China would've benefited worldbuilding.
I thought the Chinese Federation was portrayed adequately. First of all, China has a history of Eunuchs and other factions having more power than the Emperor themselves. Also having an Empress that is 13 years old is within reason seeing how the Qing Dynasty was ruled by the Xuantong Emperor, who was 2 years old when he ascended to the throne.

In my opinion, the High Eunuchs were fulfilling the same role the communist bureaucrats did in their countries. The nation operates under a system that supposed makes everyone equal and distributes resources equal. However, the High Eunuchs/Bureaucrats are the only ones prospering while the masses suffer due to government policies.
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Old 2013-09-18, 10:29   Link #2549
wredsa
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The Communists brought back a country from being bullied by imperialist forces to one of the super powers of the world. So you can not compare Chinese bureaucrats with eunuchs. They did have initial hardships as it is to be expected after the war but they got back up okay.
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Old 2013-09-18, 10:43   Link #2550
Scherzo09
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The Communists brought back a country from being bullied by imperialist forces to one of the super powers of the world. So you can not compare Chinese bureaucrats with eunuchs. They did have initial hardships as it is to be expected after the war but they got back up okay.
I don't have much love for the CPC, but you're right that the impotency of Late Imperial China is a far cry from the strong centralized government of Maoist China.
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Old 2014-04-17, 12:02   Link #2551
Naxanz
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Confused about the Emperor's plan and how CC fit into it

Hi, I just finished watching an episode of Code Geass R2 and I'm confused. I haven't finished the entire series yet so no spoilers please. But I would like this episode explained to me. It's the episode where Lelouch kills the emporor and his mother and foils the emperor's plan. However, I don't completely understand the emperor's plan. What where his goals exactly? And secondly, the thing I'm most confused about, how does CC fit into all this? Why was it essential for her to die for the emperor's plan to work? What was her part in the plan, and how did she get caught up in it?
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Old 2014-04-17, 13:16   Link #2552
Kusaja
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Hi, I just finished watching an episode of Code Geass R2 and I'm confused. I haven't finished the entire series yet so no spoilers please. But I would like this episode explained to me. It's the episode where Lelouch kills the emporor and his mother and foils the emperor's plan. However, I don't completely understand the emperor's plan. What where his goals exactly? And secondly, the thing I'm most confused about, how does CC fit into all this? Why was it essential for her to die for the emperor's plan to work? What was her part in the plan, and how did she get caught up in it?
Charles hated the current state of the world since he was a child and his mother died. His goal was to change the world in a metaphysical manner. Something similar to the Human Instrumentality from Evangelion. The result would apparently remove the barriers between individuals and make humanity into a collective of sorts that can interact without hiding behind personas and lies. It would also allow for communication with the dead.

C.C. was originally supporting the plan, until Marianne died. She ran away after that, but then they tried to find her. It seems the plan requires two immortals with the Code to guarantee that it will work, though they didn't go into the exact details. I just assume that they would become mortal once more after the plan finished or die during the process, perhaps "using up" their immortality as part of the ritual. It's essentially magic, so there's no need for a scientific explanation.

Last edited by Kusaja; 2014-04-17 at 16:39.
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Old 2014-04-17, 14:19   Link #2553
Naxanz
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Charles hated the current state of the world since he was a child and his mother died. His goal was to change the world in a metaphysical manner. Something similar to the Human Instrumentality from Evagenlion. The result would apparently remove the barriers between individuals and make humanity into a collective of sorts that can interact without hiding behind personas and lies. It would also allow for communication with the dead.

C.C. was originally supporting the plan, until Marianne died. She ran away after that, but then they tried to find her. It seems the plan requires two immortals with the Code to guarantee that it will work, though they didn't go into the exact details. I just assume that they would become mortal once more after the plan finished or die during the process, perhaps "using up" their immortality as part of the ritual. It's essentially magic, so there's no need for a scientific explanation.
Okay, thanks for the explanation. It makes so much more sense now!
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Old 2014-07-30, 10:55   Link #2554
Scherzo09
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I wonder, does anyone know when Funimation will actually get around to releasing the rescue of this series? They've been sitting on the rights for about a year now. I can understand waiting for Akito to finish before dubbing it, but what of R1 and R2?
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Old 2014-07-30, 15:30   Link #2555
Kabuto-
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Why does Lelouch call his alter Ego "Zero" ?
So why the name "Zero" ? Does anyone know the answer ?
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Old 2014-07-31, 01:39   Link #2556
GundamFan0083
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Not sure if they ever did answer that.
The only thing I can remember that references it was when the reporter that joins Lelouch remarked about how it signified nothing.

Zero might mean that Lelouch became something out of nothing, but someone else here might have a different take on it or actually know the answer.
Been quite awhile since I've watched the show.
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Old 2014-07-31, 03:26   Link #2557
charliessjin
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SHould I watch Code Geas, even though i saw the ending by accident?

should I still watch the show?

I stumbled upon the climax of the show when I saw a scene involving a certain character and a sword.

should i still bother considering i now know the ending?
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Old 2014-07-31, 08:14   Link #2558
Kusaja
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should I still watch the show?

I stumbled upon the climax of the show when I saw a scene involving a certain character and a sword.

should i still bother considering i now know the ending?
It really depends, but I'd say that's not an uncommon situation at this point in time.

I've run across other people who also saw the ending first and then still watched the series.

So ask yourself: do I want to see how things got to that conclusion or not?
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