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Old 2007-04-20, 06:10   Link #221
Lost
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Episode 1 was nicely done; especially pacing-wise. Interestingly, thinking back, a lot seem to have happened, yet it doesnt feel that way. I think they managed to do a good job keeping the episode concise. I'm keeping this series. With animation and drawing so detailed; I'm imagining what it could look like with an epic battle - an I think there will be a probable chance of that being featured later on (This reminds me of Princess Mononoke, as far as setting is concerned; and Scrapped Princess, plotwise -- basically, it's got potential to be epic).

Mmm, I like "talking" - looking forward to episode 2.
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Old 2007-04-20, 17:07   Link #222
kauldron26
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does the beginning of the OP with the clouds remind anyone else of 12 Kingdoms?? uncanny...
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Old 2007-04-20, 17:48   Link #223
Joojoobees
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Thumbs up Episode 2

I see what people are saying about the amount of dialog in this episode. It didn't really bother me, but it would have been great to see another fight. At least we know there will be one next week.

The plot is definitely deepening, which is very good. I also liked that their situation was treated fairly realistically.

Spoiler for realistic:

On top of the eye candy, and the fantasy setting, and some exciting action scenes, I am really hoping that this is the show that has a deep and interesting plot. So far my hopes are continuing to be fueled in that regard.

Seirei no Moribito is my big hope for winning title of 2007.
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Old 2007-04-20, 18:32   Link #224
ImClueless
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I don't see why people are complaining about the talking. I mean isn't it kind of expected being Production IG and GiTS:SAC director and all? I mean there was one episode in GiTS:SAC where it was just a virtual reality chatroom scene. I personally don't mind the talking. I prefer to have lots of backstory because it makes the main story much more understandable and interesting. That was my one of my complaints about Ergo Proxy. I mean there wasn't alot of back story given at all and I spent half my time going "WTF does this mean/ WTF is going one!"
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Old 2007-04-20, 18:39   Link #225
7Th
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImClueless View Post
I don't see why people are complaining about the talking. I mean isn't it kind of expected being Production IG and GiTS:SAC director and all? I mean there was one episode in GiTS:SAC where it was just a virtual reality chatroom scene. I personally don't mind the talking. I prefer to have lots of backstory because it makes the main story much more understandable and interesting. That was my one of my complaints about Ergo Proxy. I mean there wasn't alot of back story given at all and I spent half my time going "WTF does this mean/ WTF is going one!"
But in GitS: SAC the exposition was actually depicted in somewhat, they did went overboard at times, clever ways, here they're just being lazy and pushing their setting in our faces. I actually liked the approach Ergo Proxy, or series like Lain or Haibane Renmei, took, in which their back-story was there but they used a fairly low-key fashion to approach towards it. I think there is something really charming(?) in whole literary quality of the whole production, but they just don't seem to take any effort in translating the book to a visual medium, no attempt at being creative with the presentation at all.
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Old 2007-04-20, 19:05   Link #226
issei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImClueless View Post
I don't see why people are complaining about the talking. I mean isn't it kind of expected being Production IG and GiTS:SAC director and all? I mean there was one episode in GiTS:SAC where it was just a virtual reality chatroom scene. I personally don't mind the talking. I prefer to have lots of backstory because it makes the main story much more understandable and interesting. That was my one of my complaints about Ergo Proxy. I mean there wasn't alot of back story given at all and I spent half my time going "WTF does this mean/ WTF is going one!"
one of the first things i learned in a creative writing class was: "show, don't tell." this is why episode 2 dragged for me a little bit, because a lot of the episode was dominated by talking heads. certainly, as i mentioned, the level of attention to detail was maintained, and it doesn't seem like this type of episode will dominate the series, but to immediately follow the first episode with heavy exposition seems a misstep for pacing.

and, again, the preview for episode 3 restored my optimism and enthusiasm for the show.
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Old 2007-04-21, 01:10   Link #227
Jazzrat
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Finally get to watch episode 2 since i m waiting for a certain version.

Personally i dont think the pacing is mishandled especially when there's a big fight coming in episode 3. Too much action scene (even if they are good) often turns a series into a predictable monster of the week show. Before you start on a journey/quest, it's common sense to prepare for it, i think that's the purpose of episode 2.

Episode 2 is more of a character introduction as we get to know Shuga, the Holy Sage and more into Barsa x Chagum. Surprisingly, Chagum is pretty likeable and didn't devolve into the usual whiny kid. Despite the lack of action, this is an important episode since it introduce the antagonist and gave hint on how the rest of the story might go.

/fanboy mode 1

Yahhhhh so much detail! Whoever design all the characters, he/she is awesome! The amount of thoughts and details put into each character's is incredible. From Shuga to the imperial hunters, there's nothing plain about em. The background remains impressive, definitely beats 12K when it comes to this part. Not much animation extravaganza in this one but the last part where the hunters ran across of the rice field with high tempo bgm is beautiful.

I know it's wrong but eeek, Saya is cute~~~~ hopefully we get to see her and Tohya more in the future episodes.
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Old 2007-04-21, 01:30   Link #228
Joojoobees
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
i think that's the purpose of episode 2.
I think episode 2 had a lot of purposes. As you mentioned, there were several characters to introduce. They fleshed out some mythology. They gave some geography. And they handled several loose ends. Plus next episode couldn't start with a big fight scene if we didn't get a bunch of stuff out of the way this episode.

As to the series pacing, I think it was well handled because the first episode was fast moving and had some good action, then they slowed it down a little to give back story, and next time we have been promised some serious action.

I was thinking about it, and by the end of episode 2 only about 36 hours could have passed since the start of the first episode. Presumably the first episode begins on the morning of the day she saves Chagum from the river. That night she is brought to the second palace. The next night she is on the road and attacked by the hunters.
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Old 2007-04-21, 02:48   Link #229
saravis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by issei View Post
one of the first things i learned in a creative writing class was: "show, don't tell." this is why episode 2 dragged for me a little bit, because a lot of the episode was dominated by talking heads. certainly, as i mentioned, the level of attention to detail was maintained, and it doesn't seem like this type of episode will dominate the series, but to immediately follow the first episode with heavy exposition seems a misstep for pacing.

and, again, the preview for episode 3 restored my optimism and enthusiasm for the show.
First off you'll learn soon enough that most rules in concern for creative writing are bull. It's CREATIVE writing, you can write however you please. It's just a matter of the publisher taking interest in it.

To the subject at hand. Dialogue is very much a necessity to story progression. People talk, that is a fact I'm sure everyone can agree on. As far as in concern for the pacing. I felt the pacing was appropriate. The 1st episode had faster pacing, but that was because it only had two main goals: First was to introduce the protaganist. Second was to set the story in motion. This left the 2nd episode with the task of establishing the world around them and in more detail; the various minor characters. Merely showing the actions of the characters would not be enough to understand them, dialogue is needed to further understand their personalities. Also you were introduced to the political side of things, and we all know what politicians love to do.

Lastly this is a show not a book, rules of presentation are different.
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Old 2007-04-21, 03:43   Link #230
ZombieSheep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post

Episode 2 is more of a character introduction as we get to know Shuga, the Holy Sage and more into Barsa x Chagum. Surprisingly, Chagum is pretty likeable and didn't devolve into the usual whiny kid. Despite the lack of action, this is an important episode since it introduce the antagonist and gave hint on how the rest of the story might go.
I was surprised about Chaqum too, i was pretty much expecting the "this food taste like crap" or "kneel before me, peasant!". Instead that kid was all about toughing it out. Awesome!
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Old 2007-04-21, 07:56   Link #231
Iwanihana
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Summary of Episode 3 and some screen captures are up!
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Old 2007-04-21, 10:37   Link #232
7Th
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
Finally get to watch episode 2 since i m waiting for a certain version.

Personally i dont think the pacing is mishandled especially when there's a big fight coming in episode 3. Too much action scene (even if they are good) often turns a series into a predictable monster of the week show. Before you start on a journey/quest, it's common sense to prepare for it, i think that's the purpose of episode 2.

Episode 2 is more of a character introduction as we get to know Shuga, the Holy Sage and more into Barsa x Chagum. Surprisingly, Chagum is pretty likeable and didn't devolve into the usual whiny kid. Despite the lack of action, this is an important episode since it introduce the antagonist and gave hint on how the rest of the story might go.

/fanboy mode 1

Yahhhhh so much detail! Whoever design all the characters, he/she is awesome! The amount of thoughts and details put into each character's is incredible. From Shuga to the imperial hunters, there's nothing plain about em. The background remains impressive, definitely beats 12K when it comes to this part. Not much animation extravaganza in this one but the last part where the hunters ran across of the rice field with high tempo bgm is beautiful.

I know it's wrong but eeek, Saya is cute~~~~ hopefully we get to see her and Tohya more in the future episodes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saravis View Post
First off you'll learn soon enough that most rules in concern for creative writing are bull. It's CREATIVE writing, you can write however you please. It's just a matter of the publisher taking interest in it.

To the subject at hand. Dialogue is very much a necessity to story progression. People talk, that is a fact I'm sure everyone can agree on. As far as in concern for the pacing. I felt the pacing was appropriate. The 1st episode had faster pacing, but that was because it only had two main goals: First was to introduce the protaganist. Second was to set the story in motion. This left the 2nd episode with the task of establishing the world around them and in more detail; the various minor characters. Merely showing the actions of the characters would not be enough to understand them, dialogue is needed to further understand their personalities. Also you were introduced to the political side of things, and we all know what politicians love to do.

Lastly this is a show not a book, rules of presentation are different.
Both of you got us wrong. I don't say this episode doesn't accomplishes a purpose or that it was unnecessary, this isn't about the slow pace, the handling was just plain lazy. The dialogs felt forced and just objective ridden rather than like the interaction between real persons, the direction and pacing felt really uninspired and I really think that if they really want to focus their plot in the human nature they need to greatly improve their characterizations. I don't see how this episode developed the players other than the dialog about the Emperor crying about killing his son or the brief Barsa and Chagum interactions. And about showing off the setting, well it's not like learned anything new that would require a full 30 minutes episode...
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Old 2007-04-21, 10:39   Link #233
wrex_japan
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Seirei no Moribito, ep. 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwanihana View Post
Summary of Episode 3 and some screen captures are up!
Nice summary. Here's another summary and set of screencaps.

Best episode so far. ^_^
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Old 2007-04-21, 11:17   Link #234
saravis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Th View Post
Both of you got us wrong. I don't say this episode doesn't accomplishes a purpose or that it was unnecessary, this isn't about the slow pace, the handling was just plain lazy. The dialogs felt forced and just objective ridden rather than like the interaction between real persons, the direction and pacing felt really uninspired and I really think that if they really want to focus their plot in the human nature they need to greatly improve their characterizations. I don't see how this episode developed the players other than the dialog about the Emperor crying about killing his son or the brief Barsa and Chagum interactions. And about showing off the setting, well it's not like learned anything new that would require a full 30 minutes episode...

Oh no I understood perfectly. It just seems to come down to a disagreement. You thought that a lot of the dialogue was unnecessary and not done well. I thought that it was very necessary and done appropriately. You felt that much of what happened could have been left out. I felt that leaving them out would remove details from the story, that help better understand the world.
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Old 2007-04-21, 12:07   Link #235
7Th
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Originally Posted by saravis View Post
Oh no I understood perfectly. It just seems to come down to a disagreement. You thought that a lot of the dialogue was unnecessary and not done well. I thought that it was very necessary and done appropriately. You felt that much of what happened could have been left out. I felt that leaving them out would remove details from the story, that help better understand the world.
Even if I would have preferred a subtler approach rather than just blowing up everything in our faces... but I also think they could have handled the dialogs and exposition in a much better fashion, they had already done with a few SAC episodes.
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Old 2007-04-21, 12:13   Link #236
wao
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I tend to agree with 7th, I believe that since it's an anime, a visual medium then it's doing the wrong thing giving us an infodump like that with literal talking heads. I wouldn't even have minded it so much if they weren't just largely there and talking - if they showed a little more nuanced emotion on their faces or some more movement or something... I would rather they not just make it like a radio drama with pictures. That's just what that whole dialogue bit felt like to me, imho.

I do think all that detail is very important to me too since it's one of the draws of this anime's worldview; and I would have liked it to be kept in and all. Who doesn't want to understand the world?

But considering the capabilities of the studio and the standard set by episode 1, it's just that some of us were hoping they'd do a better job in getting it across to us - not having to give one big exposition like that. There are much more creative ways of doing it. Perhaps it's just a personal opinion when I agree with 7th that "the dialogue felt forced". Of course, this sounds like a rather haughty expectation considering that most anime do this anyway, but considering the standards this anime seems to be trying to reach (or more accurately, our expectations of it...) it did, as he said, feel lazy. Many great shows give infodumps, but that doesn't mean giving an infodump is nevertheless not a creative thing to do.

Having said all of that though, I think we might as well get over it and accept that this anime will have that sort of thing now and then, and enjoy episode 3.
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Old 2007-04-21, 13:18   Link #237
Joojoobees
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wao View Post
I tend to agree with 7th, I believe that since it's an anime, a visual medium then it's doing the wrong thing giving us an infodump like that with literal talking heads. I wouldn't even have minded it so much if they weren't just largely there and talking - if they showed a little more nuanced emotion on their faces or some more movement or something...
I still don't get what it was people wanted from episode 2. I assume people are criticizing the scene between Shuga and the Holy Sage. I agree that the Holy Sage does not show a lot of emotion, but I think that is his character. He is the dude that thinks the best thing is to kill the kid. He is the one who convinced the emperor to try to kill his son. I took it that his heart is frozen over.

Shuga, on the other hand, does show a range of emotion. It is somewhat restrained, but quite visible. And remember the context, he is obviously trying to convince mister stoneface ...err... the Holy Sage that he is a dependable part of the team ("no matter how dark and twisted"). Obviously this is a place where decorum rules. All the Holy Sage has to do is say that there are no people in there, and the people who are there "aren't" there, even though they obviously continue to be there, since they are lighting candles and such.
Spoiler for Screenshots of Shuga's nuanced emotions:
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Old 2007-04-21, 16:25   Link #238
DieH@rd
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Im satisfied with episode 2. It still as "realistic" as it could get!

Spoiler for Ep2:
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Old 2007-04-21, 17:29   Link #239
Goofus Maximus
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I liked both episode one and two. None of the dialog seemed forced or overdone to me; in fact, this is the most naturally-spoken anime I've seen so far.
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Old 2007-04-21, 19:13   Link #240
issei
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since episode 3 is incoming, i'll just say that i agree with the sentiments of 7th and wao, especially in terms of expectations and the lack of dramatic force despite the lavish attention to detail and technical execution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wao
Having said all of that though, I think we might as well get over it and accept that this anime will have that sort of thing now and then, and enjoy episode 3.
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