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Old 2008-04-07, 18:12   Link #1241
kujoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deltakano View Post
Your reasoning does have some fact to it but the basis is flawed. You're being biased by stating that a mother's role is nurturing while the father's role is protecting and strengthening. Seahorses and a few other species show that such roles cannot be defined like that. Seirei no Moribito actually showed that mothers can also take the role of the protector while the fathers act as the nurturer. These roles are not superior to one another but equal.
We're not talking about seahorses. I'm just referring to what are known to be (or commonly regarded as) expected gender roles in the so-called traditional, classical sense. Societies have their common view with regard to these, hence why they are also challenged or questioned in the present. The part about bias is actually the point that this anime is trying (or at least seems) to subvert.

This anime in particular does this by means of contrasting roles and using a certain setting. In my opinion, while the roles are interestingly fleshed out between the characters, they also seem a bit obvious.
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Old 2008-04-07, 19:11   Link #1242
Moonbase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
We're not talking about seahorses. I'm just referring to what are known to be (or commonly regarded as) expected gender roles in the so-called traditional, classical sense. Societies have their common view with regard to these, hence why they are also challenged or questioned in the present. The part about bias is actually the point that this anime is trying (or at least seems) to subvert.

This anime in particular does this by means of contrasting roles and using a certain setting. In my opinion, while the roles are interestingly fleshed out between the characters, they also seem a bit obvious.
Yeah, that analogy was completely out of left field to me, too. Talk about an even stranger bias.

The notion that the father is a protector and the mother is a nurturer/child-rearing parent amongst humans isn't even a bias. It's been observed empirically within humans, spanning back thousands of years.
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Old 2008-04-08, 11:11   Link #1243
deltakano
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Analogy of seahorses:
The fathers are the mothers and vice versa.
Both women and men have proven that they can perform each other's roles as well as the "traditional" roles. The "classical" sense of these roles are biased and irrelevant in today's world even though they are widely practiced.

Quote:
This anime in particular does this by means of contrasting roles and using a certain setting. In my opinion, while the roles are interestingly fleshed out between the characters, they also seem a bit obvious.
I definitely agree. I must have misunderstood your comment and thought that you were railing against how the anime series seemed a bit "preachy" about it.
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Old 2008-04-08, 12:07   Link #1244
kujoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deltakano View Post
Analogy of seahorses:
The fathers are the mothers and vice versa.
Both women and men have proven that they can perform each other's roles as well as the "traditional" roles. The "classical" sense of these roles are biased and irrelevant in today's world even though they are widely practiced.
And that's exactly what the anime is somewhat demonstrating. At the very least, you can't help thinking that's what it seems to be doing. Moreover this "bias" is not irrelevant because such a view does exist. If it's irrelevant, no one would make mention of it nor question it.

The seahorse analogy is at best indirect. Views on gender roles in human societies are mostly prevalent and regulated by history, culture and institutions.
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Old 2008-04-08, 21:15   Link #1245
deltakano
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Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
And that's exactly what the anime is somewhat demonstrating. At the very least, you can't help thinking that's what it seems to be doing. Moreover this "bias" is not irrelevant because such a view does exist. If it's irrelevant, no one would make mention of it nor question it.

The seahorse analogy is at best indirect. Views on gender roles in human societies are mostly prevalent and regulated by history, culture and institutions.
You're definitely right. "Irrelevant" isn't exactly the word that describes what I'm trying to say. I am trying to say that this bias should be irrelevant (in an idealistic world) but it seems that it won't change for decades to come.

Anyways, Seirei no Moribito was a good anime series. 8/10
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Old 2008-05-25, 21:50   Link #1246
incube
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I nice anime to watch.. it kinda made me remember Twelve Kingdoms but with a better story and animation. Specially the fighting scenes. I would give it a 7/10 since it lacks drama and build up tension during the show.

About the relationship between Tanda and Balsa... i personally dont think it can be called love. Maybe as Tanda says, at some point he loved her but after all those years it turned to be more of a friendship. It is more as a one sided love/admiration from Tanda in the female role.

I didnt quite get the summaries of the novels... What happens after Balsa returns to Kandal...
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Old 2008-07-17, 13:25   Link #1247
Rahan
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For those who have been waiting forever for the opening full version, the single will finally be released on august 27 !
It was about time. The anime started airing more than one year ago.
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Old 2008-07-18, 11:17   Link #1248
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yata!!!
at last i can hear the full version!
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Old 2008-07-19, 14:29   Link #1249
Spectacular_Insanity
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It was a good series, and I enjoyed it immensely. Due to the production value, I've probably watch it like 5 times already.

Anyway, I don't feel like giving a full review, so I'll just say I really enjoyed it. It had a good storyline, and an interesting mix of both ancient japanese and chinese cultures. There were probably other influences as well, but I don't know what those were. The fighting was a bit scarce, but the dynamics of each fight (and superb animation) more than make up for that. All in all, a near perfect series. At least close enough for me to give it a 10/10.
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Old 2008-08-24, 01:45   Link #1250
frubam
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Saw the 1st ep of AS, it was pretty solid; great artwork and great VAs. I didn't recognize Balsa's VA, which is a good thing, cause I really like her voice, esp her line when she beat up those two guys and pointed her spear at the third one . Can't say much about the story yet, since nothing really progressed other than the setup, but I think I actually might enjoy it.
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Old 2008-08-24, 02:19   Link #1251
Sci-Fi
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Adult swim is airing SnM tonight. Wonder how the dub voices compare...
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Old 2008-08-24, 02:35   Link #1252
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Sci-Fi View Post
Adult swim is airing SnM tonight. Wonder how the dub voices compare...
They won't be able to beat Chagum's VA. Debut performance and he was a real twelve year old boy, when you'd usually think a woman would play that part.
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Old 2008-08-24, 05:14   Link #1253
Sci-Fi
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
They won't be able to beat Chagum's VA. Debut performance and he was a real twelve year old boy, when you'd usually think a woman would play that part.
Mona Marschall isn't Chagum's VA?
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Old 2008-08-24, 05:21   Link #1254
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Sci-Fi View Post
Grown woman portraying a young boy? *Yawns* A young boy performing as a young boy and actually being good at it? That's actually notable.
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Old 2008-08-24, 07:45   Link #1255
SeijiSensei
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I'm sorry I missed this. I'd like to see an episode or two for comparison purposes. Since Andou Mabuki's work as Balsa was my choice for best female seiyuu performance in 2007, Ms. Robinson has some enormous shoes to fill.

I just reread this thread the other day after watching Seirei again with my daughter. Many of us thought [adult swim] a very unlikely venue for this show. I'll be very curious to see how it fares. If I were going to choose a Turner outlet for this show, I'd pick TNT, supposedly the "network for drama." Plus we'd get to watch it in HD.

I was struck while reading this thread again by the level of commentary and discussion that Seirei no Moribito show inspired. Sadly I can't think of any show's thread since that has reached these lofty heights.
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Old 2008-08-24, 08:53   Link #1256
mdauben
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I'm sorry I missed this. I'd like to see an episode or two for comparison purposes. Since Andou Mabuki's work as Balsa was my choice for best female seiyuu performance in 2007, Ms. Robinson has some enormous shoes to fill.
While I would certainly agree that Andou Mabuki's work in the original Japanese soundtrack is one of the strong points of the show, I think Cindy Robinson's work so far is very good. While not an exact match for the original seiyu, I think Cindy is a good match for the character, and her acting so far has been spot-on. I'm looking forward to hearing more of her work in the following episodes.

Quote:
Many of us thought [adult swim] a very unlikely venue for this show.
I'm not so sure. If Ghost in the Shell, with its strong female lead character, can be popular on [AS] I don't see why SnM can't work, too? Still, the thing I am happiest about isn't that it's on [AS] in particular, but that since it is on any US venue, that means R1 DVDs can't be far behind!

Quote:
I was struck while reading this thread again by the level of commentary and discussion that Seirei no Moribito show inspired. Sadly I can't think of any show's thread since that has reached these lofty heights.
True. In the world of silly comedies and shallow shounen fighting shows, Moribito really stood out as an example of what anime can be at it's very best.
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Old 2008-08-24, 11:31   Link #1257
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by mdauben View Post
I'm not so sure. If Ghost in the Shell, with its strong female lead character, can be popular on [AS] I don't see why SnM can't work, too? Still, the thing I am happiest about isn't that it's on [AS] in particular, but that since it is on any US venue, that means R1 DVDs can't be far behind!
Well, Balsa's actually a woman for one thing. The Major is in reality a bionic man with a pussy.
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Old 2008-08-24, 12:50   Link #1258
signorRossi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Well, Balsa's actually a woman for one thing. The Major is in reality a bionic man with a pussy.
This doesn't come around sarcastic, sorry.
If you have seen the 2nd Gig you should know that she was badly injured in a plane crash as a girl and therefore received a bionic body very early. And perhaps you remember when those soldiers in the armour suits almost got her and how she freaked out then, no man can get so angry (still feel the shivers).
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Old 2008-08-24, 13:54   Link #1259
Wesley84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signorRossi View Post
This doesn't come around sarcastic, sorry.
If you have seen the 2nd Gig you should know that she was badly injured in a plane crash as a girl and therefore received a bionic body very early. And perhaps you remember when those soldiers in the armour suits almost got her and how she freaked out then, no man can get so angry (still feel the shivers).
I don't care. The Major is irredeemable to me. I will never see her as a woman. Just some wanked to hell Mary Sue character.
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Old 2008-08-24, 15:48   Link #1260
kujoe
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Off topic:

The interesting is, you can come up with a discussion revolving Wesley's comment regarding the Major. In the anime, Motoko is asked why not just get a larger, male body for combat purposes, since that's what she mainly does anyway. Instead, Motoko chooses to use a female body, wear the same old wrist watch, and hold on to these things as marks of who she is.

In a world where machination poses existential questions on human identity and embodiment, it's actually very ironic that here is one woman who embodies who she is through artificial means which are also totally arbitrary (and thus arguably meaningless) in the world she lives in.
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