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View Poll Results: How would you rate these genious'?
Itatchi is the best genious to date, there are no comparisons. 37 56.92%
Neji can compare to Itatchi, both are more of a genious than Sasuke. 21 32.31%
Sasuke can compare to Itatchi, both are more of a genious than Neji. 7 10.77%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-11-13, 22:58   Link #1
Dauthi
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Is itatchi a "super genious" compared to others??

This isn't about power, but how much they progressed which most relate to how much of a "genious" you are.

My friend Rurik truely believes Neji is an equal level of genious as Itatchi, and Sasuke is below both of them. Does everyone believe this? How many people do?

Im interested to see the majority rule, because i always thought Neji was around Sasuke's level of genious and Itatchi was the ultimate "genious". (if they had levels i suppose).

Now i must figure out how to configure polls...

Last edited by Dauthi; 2006-11-13 at 23:10.
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Old 2006-11-13, 23:07   Link #2
Rachy
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I think Neji is a genius to have done what he's done, and in a way equal with what Itachi did yes.

But i don't think either are more genius than my Sasuke, no way.
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Old 2006-11-13, 23:18   Link #3
Sabaku Kyu
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Well I imagine that Rurik will argue that what the majority believes doesn't determine the truth, and he'd be right of course

But it seems Itachi has just been on a totally different level of growth than anyone in the series. He graduated the academy at 7 after only a year, became a chuunin at 10 and an ANBU captain at 13. If he'd hadn't left Konoha he'd probably would've become a jounin that same year. The 3rd, Oro and Yondaime are probably the only Konoha ninja that match Itachi in terms of sheer genius.

Neji's accompishments seem more on par with Sasuke's. Both were at the top of their respective classes and both are fairly advanced for their age.
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Old 2006-11-13, 23:24   Link #4
Dauthi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Well I imagine that Rurik will argue that what the majority believes doesn't determine the truth, and he'd be right of course

But it seems Itachi has just been on a totally different level of growth than anyone in the series. He graduated the academy at 7 after only a year, became a chuunin at 10 and an ANBU captain at 13. If he'd hadn't left Konoha he'd probably would've become a jounin that same year. The 3rd, Oro and Yondaime are probably the only Konoha ninja that match Itachi in terms of sheer genius.

Neji's accompishments seem more on par with Sasuke's. Both were at the top of their respective classes and both are fairly advanced for their age.
Ah thanks for that age/graduation info on Itatchi, i know it was very early, but forget how much so.

Indeed, it can only be an opinion of who you think was more accomplished, since there is no fact dictating "geniousity" i suppose. All i want to see is if others believe that Neji is as amazing as Itatchi, and if i am in a majority or minority =p
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Old 2006-11-13, 23:50   Link #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu
He graduated the academy at 7 after only a year, became a chuunin at 10 and an ANBU captain at 13.
Itachi had people to train him and secret scrolls to read, Neji had nothing. Itachi graduated in a different time i mean Kakashi is also someone who graduated very early and became a jounin at 14.

What makes Neji rival Itachi's genius is that Neji had nobody to teach him yet he still mastered all his clans techniques, better than any other hyuuga mind you which would be thought to be impossible.

Even so, both Itachi and Neji have limits, Sasuke really doesn't.

Basically what Itachi did isn't THAT great, so he graduated young, who cares? the sannin did, Kakashi did.

He became a anbu leader at 13, where as Kakashi was jounin at 14.

He mastered his sharingan but had his father and the clan to help train him.

Neji was all alone.

Last edited by Rachy; 2006-11-14 at 00:09.
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Old 2006-11-14, 00:17   Link #6
Wrath of the Uchiha
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He graduated the academy at 7 after only a year, became a chuunin at 10 and an ANBU captain at 13.
And killed the most feared clan in existance singlehandedly including scaring off the genius of the legendary Sannin before puberty? I prodigy I say. He's the pinnacle of the Uchiha's potential just as Neji is of the Hyuugas.
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Old 2006-11-14, 00:23   Link #7
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What Neji had accomplished on his own was amazing, but I dont really think it counts up to Itachi's genious.
However, they're definitely both more genious then Sasuke. The only reason Sasuke is strong as he is is because of the Cursed seal, and that he convinces Orochimaru to dope him even stronger. Neji who probably still is very equal has done most improvements by himself (With hiashi as guidance as lately)
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Old 2006-11-14, 00:31   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of the Uchiha
He's the pinnacle of the Uchiha's potential
Yet it's stated Sasuke has more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamme
The only reason Sasuke is strong as he is is because of the Cursed seal
That's probably holding him back from being as strong as he could be.
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Old 2006-11-14, 01:01   Link #9
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Give Neji a few years and he'll get a better Byakugan...big deal. For now, nobody compares to Itachi. Not even close. At least nobody living.
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Old 2006-11-14, 01:23   Link #10
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Umm... I can't believe Neji is getting compared to Itachi. 14 year old Neji would be facing an 8 year old Itachi if they were at the chuunin exam together...

Besides, guess who lost and didn't get upgraded to chuunin status - NEJI.

Itachi not only has genius fighting skills, but at the age of 8 he showed intellect and leadership skills that showed he was ready to lead a team. At age 13 he had the leadership and skills to lead Anbu. Honestly nobody in Naruto so far can rival his resume (not power) not even the sannin. Sarutobi might come close but that's it.

I think Neji is more of a genius than Sasuke, but the comparison should stop there. Neji will prb go on to be an elite jounin like kakashi and Gai, but Itachi is on the level of the Kages.

Someone also did mention an young Itachi (possibly at Neji's current age) took out all of the UChiha thats totally OMGWTFBBQSAUCE!!!

You want to compare neji to that??? Let's see if he could even beat his uncle, let alone the whole hyuuga clan... what a joke.
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Old 2006-11-14, 02:04   Link #11
matsuno
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Nobody compares to Itachi?

----------------------------------------------Kakashi vs Itachi Showdown---------------------------

Graduated Academy ----------------------- 5 -------------------- 7 ---------------------------------

Acheived Chuunin rank -------------------- 6 ------------------- 10 --------------------------------

Achieved Jounin rank---------------------- 13 --------------- (almost by 13) ---------------------

So whats this mean? It means that Kakashi was a better student, and many times more gifted than Itachi (achieving Chuunin rank younger than Itachi graduating from the Academy even). But there is more to be said of all this.

When Iruka starts complaining about hte Konoha 8 taking the Chuunin exam as too young, Kakashi at that point reveals how old he was when he took it, but that times had also changed. This is to say, they had been gravitating ot educating the ninja more highly in later years, to achieve the best efficiency out of heir graduates (which also plays into the fact that it was the first time in many years that a rookie achieved Chuunin rank).

Overall this can mean that all the top characters we have seen could of had many equivalent qualities to judge them as Geniouses. Whats more, because of the Sand/sound plot, there was an unfair judging of all the competitors of the fianal exam, so only Shikamaru got to really show his value. So, comparing the year of attaining Joinin level, I would say is the best guage of the Ninja, so unless from unforseen reasons (like not being able to test), a ninja acheiving Jounin status before 15 should be considered an elite genious.
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Old 2006-11-14, 02:06   Link #12
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Itachi is way to far ahead of neji and sasuke to even consider this at the moment i think sasuke will catch up eventually though but as of right now itachi is the strongest nin we have been introduced to so far we havent seen all that he can do yet and he has easily beat some the stongest nins around

also where the hell did neji come from he dosn't even have a shot (not because he isnt capable but he isnt a main character)

I cant wait for the vengence match were sasuke actually stands a chance. That is going to be one intresting fight.
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Old 2006-11-14, 02:52   Link #13
Dauthi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss rave View Post
Itachi had people to train him and secret scrolls to read, Neji had nothing. Itachi graduated in a different time i mean Kakashi is also someone who graduated very early and became a jounin at 14.

What makes Neji rival Itachi's genius is that Neji had nobody to teach him yet he still mastered all his clans techniques, better than any other hyuuga mind you which would be thought to be impossible.

Even so, both Itachi and Neji have limits, Sasuke really doesn't.

Basically what Itachi did isn't THAT great, so he graduated young, who cares? the sannin did, Kakashi did.

He became a anbu leader at 13, where as Kakashi was jounin at 14.

He mastered his sharingan but had his father and the clan to help train him.

Neji was all alone.
Well if you look at it, Itatchi was taught basic skills as was Neji. How can you teach sharingan? I dont think you can (excluding the possibility of MS, which is forbidden anyways). So both were taught fairly evenly im sure.

It is amazing Neji taught himself these advanced techniques still. The only thing you could say for Itatchi is if he had to train MS by himself as well, which we dont know for sure.

As for comparing Neji/Sasuke, i think after graduating they were both probably fairly even. Sasuke was very talented without sharingan (basically a simple genious ninja). Its hard to speculate on Neji because we never see him this young (graduating). I would imagine though a Sasuke who stayed at the village untill he was 14 (which i believe is Neji's age?) would show similiar talent and improvement.

Also everyone was surprised (besides those he trains with) to see Neji perform Kaiten/64 hands. This means he just recently perfected/completed these techniques more than likely (in the year he has over Sasuke).

Sasuke does very well for himself without the Sharingan. Also he impresses everyone similiarly as neji did. Even Oro was quite pleased when he first fought the young Sasuke.
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Old 2006-11-14, 04:59   Link #14
Xrayz0r
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi View Post
This isn't about power, but how much they progressed which most relate to how much of a "genious" you are.

My friend Rurik truely believes Neji is an equal level of genious as Itatchi, and Sasuke is below both of them. Does everyone believe this? How many people do?

Im interested to see the majority rule, because i always thought Neji was around Sasuke's level of genious and Itatchi was the ultimate "genious". (if they had levels i suppose).

Now i must figure out how to configure polls...
Yes, I agree with this.

I always liked to say Itachi is a genius multiplied (genius by himself + Sharingan = great results) whereas Sasuke is a genius just because of Sharingan. Itachi is a genius himself like Kakashi and Neji are, plus the Sharingan which greatly improves growth and whatnot hence he managed to get so far at a really young age. If we are just to be honest, Sasuke has never done anything really that outstanding before he aquired Sharingan.
I mean what did he do? Train like fucking hell just so he could show his dad his super grades in school? Next thing, train like fucking hell because he wished to some day defeat his brother. And still he was mediocre, imo, for someone classified as a genius.

Fact is, which no one can deny, Sasuke had to practice and train like fuck in order to get the rep he got at the end of his times in the academy, whereas Itachi was a natural genius and didn't seem to put any effort into stuff at all. And still, Itachi was considered a greater genius than Sasuke, by far.
In fact, if it wasn't for Sharingan, Sasuke would be a mere dropout like Lee and Naruto. A hardworker instead of a genius. Cause frankly that's what he used to be, a hardworker.

Now to the idiot Sasuke fans who will likely all jump on my throat for this, I'm not saying Sasuke sucks, or won't get just as strong. I'm saying he doesn't seem much of a genius, which isn't that important a feature (I mean just look at Naruto). Especially compared to Yondaime and Neji, who managed to come up with stuff by themselves. Their genius minds, capable of coming up with stuff of their own, whereas Sasuke needs / depends on Sharingan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamme
What Neji had accomplished on his own was amazing, but I dont really think it counts up to Itachi's genious.
Both inherited their clans ability apparently to the max. But, Sharingan is what makes you grow fast, not Byakugan. Byakugan's ability requires a lot of training still if you are to take advantage of it, Sharingan's ability is exactly what makes you skip training, so there's just a little difference. And it's in favor of Itachi.

That said, they're both equal geniuses, it's just Itachi's kekkei genkai is exactly what defines a genius, so it gives him a boost, unlike Byakugan for Neji. If we were just to think his additional "unfair" growth away, both would be fairly equal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86
Give Neji a few years and he'll get a better Byakugan...big deal. For now, nobody compares to Itachi. Not even close. At least nobody living.
Do you understand the difference between being a genius and being strong?

You're not necessarily 00ber if you're a genius, and you're not necessarily a weakling if you're not one. Even if Itachi is that strong at the moment, Kakashi could still be more of a genius. Yondaime as well. Perhaps Neji as well. The ability to come up with, and understand jutsu fast. A natural talent for jutsu. That's what defines a genius.

"Nobody comes close to Itachi" proves nothing so far as this topic goes. It just proves that he's really strong, just like Jiraiya. And is he a genius?

Quote:
Originally Posted by matsuno
Nobody compares to Itachi?

----------------------------------------------Kakashi vs Itachi Showdown---------------------------

Graduated Academy ----------------------- 5 -------------------- 7 ---------------------------------

Acheived Chuunin rank -------------------- 6 ------------------- 10 --------------------------------

Achieved Jounin rank---------------------- 13 --------------- (almost by 13) ---------------------

So whats this mean? It means that Kakashi was a better student, and many times more gifted than Itachi
Consider the fact that Kakashi grew up in wartime, whereas Itachi grew up in a peaceful village, smartass.

It was since after the 3rd great ninja war that the Chuunin exam went as it does now. Villages had to be balanced out, so they came up with a nice idea to be able to measure each others power and stay fairly equal so no village would become clearly stronger than others.

Itachi participated in a Chuunin exam way different from that of Kakashi. Fighting ninja from other villages instead of his own. Ninjas who don't give a shit whether you die or not. Plus the fact that during war, students are being rushed, grow up under high pressure and are forced to train a lot more, plus get promoted maybe before they would even be fit for a higher rank.

That said, we can't possibly compare Itachi to Kakashi based on their accomplishments back in their youth. It still seems to me Itachi's growth was way greater than that of Kakashi. Still, that was only after he aquired Sharingan, so it's unfair in a way.

Last edited by Xrayz0r; 2006-11-14 at 05:33.
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Old 2006-11-14, 05:55   Link #15
Electroguy
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Lmao.

There's nothing better than finding a thread debating who is the better "Genious".

I'd say we don't have enough info to go on in the anime.

Sasuke v Neji would be an evenish fight and Itachi is like 6-7*(?) years older than them so perhaps by the time they're his age they will be much stronger than he is now.

* Based upon loose visual comparison between Sasuke & Itachi during flashbacks.
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Old 2006-11-14, 08:05   Link #16
Geta
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I don't see why people even bother trying to talk to theese Sasuke fan douches. They'll believe what they will even after Naruto drops his nuts and sasuke crys uncle.

I think Kakashi and Itatchi are on somewhat the same level. Thing was Kakashi thought he could fight artificial sharingan vs real sharingan and come out on top, he was wrong. I'm sure he'll still try it again next time they meet.
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Old 2006-11-14, 08:20   Link #17
mid-nite
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acctualy i agree. with geta i mean.

i have a problem with this thing about saying sasuke is the best. he had a real wide losing streak if i remember correctly.
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Old 2006-11-14, 08:45   Link #18
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I voted for the second choice, as After Itachi reach 11 YO he gained the MS (which gaining MS the way he did does not has anything to do with Genius), which practically help him jump his level of strength and power, whereas Neeji, Get to create 2 Jutsu that already existed, that is as he invented them by himself.

For what Neeji did, I consider him to be above Itachi in terms of genius. and if of any Help, I consider also Yondaime, Orochimaru and Kakashi above Itachi in terms of genius.

-------


BTW, the results of a poll its not a reflection on Facts, why????

Quote:
Originally Posted by miss rave View Post
But i don't think either are more genius than my Sasuke, no way.
Rave could be the one Been right, and the one who is better genius is Sasuke.

Also, for those who joked about "what the majority believes doesn't determine the truth", look that it even has a definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Quote:
The argumentum ad populum is a red herring and genetic fallacy. It is logically fallacious because the mere fact that a belief is widely held is not necessarily a guarantee that the belief is correct; if the belief of any individual can be wrong, then the belief held by multiple persons can also be wrong.

This fallacy is similar in structure to certain other fallacies that involve a confusion between the justification of a belief and its widespread acceptance by a given group of people. When an argument uses the appeal to the beliefs of a group of supposed experts, it takes on the form of an appeal to authority; if the appeal is to the beliefs of a group of respected elders or the members of one's community over a long period of time, then it takes on the form of an appeal to tradition.

One who commits this fallacy may assume that individuals commonly analyze and edit their beliefs and behaviors. This is often not the case (see conformity).
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Last edited by Rurik; 2006-11-14 at 09:47.
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Old 2006-11-14, 10:02   Link #19
Xrayz0r
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Originally Posted by Rurik
Rave could be the one Been right, and the one who is better genius is Sasuke.
I demand you to back the f*ck up.
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Old 2006-11-14, 10:13   Link #20
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-Hehe, seems like the majority of people believe the 1st option to be true. I'm no different. Come on: it's Uchiha-freaking-Itachi. You know the guy even a snake-obsessed-pedophile-freakshow is scared of. I will say that sure Naji is a genious for the things he was able to accomplish on his own and that puts him on a higher level of genious than Sasuke in my book. But if you put Itachi in any comparison he's bound to come out the winner.
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