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View Poll Results: How would you rate these genious'?
Itatchi is the best genious to date, there are no comparisons. 37 56.92%
Neji can compare to Itatchi, both are more of a genious than Sasuke. 21 32.31%
Sasuke can compare to Itatchi, both are more of a genious than Neji. 7 10.77%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-11-14, 14:10   Link #41
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s-class uchiha View Post
I don't really diagree although I'm not so sure about 6 months joining ANBU thing it does sound good though. I don't think its that your wrong, but mostly likely something Kishi didn't catch.
It could be Kishi not paying to much attention to what he Said, but I highly doubt it because Kishi reinforce us with Akatsuki comment about Oro leaving at Akatsuki when Itahci was 11 Years Old, So Itahci was in Akatsuki at 11 Years Old.

And I have this guideline so you can see the hints in he Flashback.

Itachi said to become Chunin at age 10:
Quote:
http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=930.0
Ninja Registration: 012110
Birthday: June 9th (18 Gemini)
Height: 175. 2cm , weight: 57.1 kg, bloodtype: AB
Personality: smart and cold
Specialties: Tchkuyumi, Amateras, Mangekyou Sharingan, fire jutsu

Graduated Ninja Academy: 7
Chunnin:10
Itachi Father said that 6 month has passed since he became Chunin:

This also state that The next Day There is a mission that will Make official Itachi acceptance to ANBU, this is the same day that Sasuke Joins the Academy


Spoiler:


Up to this point Itachi is around 10 Years and 6 month old

Then this state that 6 month has passed, as Sasuke gets his first semester scorecard

Spoiler:


this means Itahci is already around 11 Years old

The same night Itachi says he is not going to the Uchiha Meeting

Spoiler:


The day After The Uchiha cops come to Itahcis House they talk about the meeting Itachi did not go, and that Itachi had around 6 month since he joined ANBU.

Spoiler:



Independent of this Akatsuki said that Orochimaru left Akatsuki 7 Years ago.

Spoiler:


We all know that Oro left Akatsuki because of Itachi, So Oro left Akatsuki when Itachi was 11 Years old, meaning Manga Is saying that Itahci was stronger than Oro at 11 Years Old. I think there is no problem of Itachi doing double duties as an Akatsuki and as an ANBU at the same time.
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Last edited by Rurik; 2006-11-14 at 14:23.
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Old 2006-11-14, 14:24   Link #42
MobiuS
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Genius(<-- americanized spelling btw) Rank Order:

Haku > Neji > Yondaime > Itachi

Why?

Haku had noone to train him AND he was hated by his village. He was a fugitive since birth. What he achieved was in his spare time escaping death and basically surviving.

Neji had noone to train him but .. his conditions werent as bad as Haku. However he did master fully his bloodline, which is one step over Haku. But he did have time advantage.

Yondaime had no bloodline, but he still had time and support from teammates and such so ... time advantage.

Itachi had time AND people to train him. Genius, yes. But he had a lot more advantage than the others

Sasuke isnt a genius IMO. Hes just a sharingan user. He hasnt done anything impressive to me. Hes not fast, hes not strong ... and everything is "z0mg sharingay ftw". ~__~ I guess people respect him because there arent that many sharingans to compare him to.

And all the ones we have seen beat him really badly, save the one who was a crybaby failure.
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Old 2006-11-14, 14:44   Link #43
Dauthi
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Originally Posted by matsuno View Post
I can completely agree with that, and the idea of power levels was brought up after my original post in which I stated that saying the age of a person becoming a chuunin cannot be a measurement of their genious, because of circumstancial differences in the times they were brought up in.

So if any age should be used as a measurement, looking at when one becomes a Jounin is about the only way, if we are to use someting as a moniquer of accomplishment.
If it is completely true that there were no chuunin exams, and the system in which you were promoted was different back then, that does fudge up comparison by rank to the slightly older ninjas like kakashi.

This did not apply to Itatchi i am assuming however. So if chuunin exam is a direct test of intelligence/leadership, this factor can come into play when looking at Sasuke/Neji/Itatchi. Aparently Itatchi was very mature/intelligent at a young age, giving him leadership abilities. I think this is a good comparison to Sasuke/Neji who were too immature to pass at that time.

MobiuS --> Cant believe i have been spelling it wrong through my last couple discussions >.<. Didn't notice it looked funny.

Also Haku learned to use his bloodline amazingly well, when he had no clues what-so-ever to learn from. He truely invented his own bloodline abilities. Haku is definitely due some credit.

--- > general

When we grade a genius we should look at how quickly he advanced, because the faster they gained power the more it proves they were naturally gifted as a ninja. Remember Neji did have as much help from the village training as Sasuke, and Itatchi (seeing as how you cant actually "train" sharingan as far as we know".
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Old 2006-11-14, 14:50   Link #44
mid-nite
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no i don't think he's a super genious. he just plays it off like he is.
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Old 2006-11-14, 14:52   Link #45
Luminion Lancer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi View Post
Also Haku learned to use his bloodline amazingly well, when he had no clues what-so-ever to learn from. He truely invented his own bloodline abilities. Haku is definitely due some credit.
-True, very true. But for the sake of simplicity shouldn't we focus on the 3 characters that were there at the start: Itachi, Neji, Sasuke? But I can agree, Haku is certainly a genious, maybe even more so than Itachi. But, although he invented his Hyoton jutsu, was he not trained by the Mizu ANBU and Zabuza?
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Old 2006-11-14, 14:57   Link #46
Rurik
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Originally Posted by KatonMakai View Post
- But, although he invented his Hyoton jutsu, was he not trained by the Mizu ANBU and Zabuza?
Yes, Zabuza trained Haku at everything he knew.
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Old 2006-11-14, 14:57   Link #47
s-class uchiha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
It could be Kishi not paying to much attention to what he Said, but I highly doubt it because Kishi reinforce us with Akatsuki comment about Oro leaving at Akatsuki when Itahci was 11 Years Old, So Itahci was in Akatsuki at 11 Years Old.

And I have this guideline so you can see the hints in he Flashback.

Itachi said to become Chunin at age 10:


Itachi Father said that 6 month has passed since he became Chunin:

This also state that The next Day There is a mission that will Make official Itachi acceptance to ANBU, this is the same day that Sasuke Joins the Academy


Spoiler:


Up to this point Itachi is around 10 Years and 6 month old

Then this state that 6 month has passed, as Sasuke gets his first semester scorecard

Spoiler:


this means Itahci is already around 11 Years old

The same night Itachi says he is not going to the Uchiha Meeting

Spoiler:


The day After The Uchiha cops come to Itahcis House they talk about the meeting Itachi did not go, and that Itachi had around 6 month since he joined ANBU.

Spoiler:



Independent of this Akatsuki said that Orochimaru left Akatsuki 7 Years ago.

Spoiler:


We all know that Oro left Akatsuki because of Itachi, So Oro left Akatsuki when Itachi was 11 Years old, meaning Manga Is saying that Itahci was stronger than Oro at 11 Years Old. I think there is no problem of Itachi doing double duties as an Akatsuki and as an ANBU at the same time.

I haven't read it all yet, but yea I don't doubt he could double in both akat and anbu. But you still didn't address how he could leave Konoha at 11 and be ANBU capt. at 13.
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Old 2006-11-14, 15:03   Link #48
Rurik
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Originally Posted by s-class uchiha View Post
I haven't read it all yet, but yea I don't doubt he could double in both akat and anbu. But you still didn't address how he could leave Konoha at 11 and be ANBU capt. at 13.
Because Joinin Akatsuki (or been involved wiht Akatsuki), does not means he need to scape Konoha, rather, He Joined Akatsuki while still been an Active Konoha Nin. Hence why I said he could had been doing double duties in some point.

Lets not forget that

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-11-14, 15:05   Link #49
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS
Haku > Neji > Yondaime > Itachi

Why?

Haku had noone to train him AND he was hated by his village. He was a fugitive since birth. What he achieved was in his spare time escaping death and basically surviving.

Neji had noone to train him but .. his conditions werent as bad as Haku. However he did master fully his bloodline, which is one step over Haku. But he did have time advantage.
You could say that about Kimimaro as well, since he was locked up most of the time and didn't even train. Haku was trained by Zabuza after he found him as a child

But what Haku and Kimimaro did were a little different from Neji, in that the jutsu they learned were manifestations of their bloodlines. Creating ice and extending bones for users of these bloodlines is as natural as a Hyuuga gaining Byakugan or a Uchiha gaining Sharingan. Not to say that Mayko Hyo isnt an extremely talented technique. It's just that Haku took something that came instinctively to him and applied it in a unique and talented way. Which isn't the same as say Neji learning a technique like Kaiten, which is in no way a manifestation of Byakugan.

Also, how are Neji and Haku greater geniuses than Yondaime who developed 3 totally unique jutsu from scratch?
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Old 2006-11-14, 15:13   Link #50
Luminion Lancer
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...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Also, how are Neji and Haku greater geniuses than Yondaime who developed 3 totally unique jutsu from scratch?
-I guess some people don't consider "dead heroes" to be eligable. But if you include the Hokages (previous and current) then all are geniouses. Shodaime and Nidaime for obvious reasons, Sandaime knew every jutsu in Konoha (or so he claimed to Konohamaru's class when he called himself the "Professor") excluding Rasengan and Hiraishin. Yondaime you already mentioned and Tsunade (Godaime) but lately she seems to have been acting stupid (Niju Shotai anybody?).
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Old 2006-11-14, 15:20   Link #51
s-class uchiha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Because Joinin Akatsuki (or been involved wiht Akatsuki), does not means he need to scape Konoha, rather, He Joined Akatsuki while still been an Active Konoha Nin. Hence why I said he could had been doing double duties in some point.

Lets not forget that

Spoiler:
Ic ic...

Okay That puts him at 11 when theUchiha cops come to him right?

So are you saying that he is captain in 6 months? (I'd buy that)

second, are you saying that it is 2 years after the Uchiha cop meeting that Itachi destroys the clan. It really only seems like 2 days which would put him at 11.5 years old. NOT 13. - This is where its confusing. When I said escape/leave konoha I meant after the Uchiha massacre


I guess that's why I'm confused and seems like Kishi is wrong. I'd have to agree with everything you said so far, but from what I see either Kakashi was wrong about him becoming captain at 13, that his chuunnin exam age was wrong, or kishi and the databook are wrong.


I can see how he joined akatsuki early and scared off oro at 11, but this doesn't jive well w/ Kakashi "anbu capt. at 13 statement."

How do you see that statement? I still see it as a plot hole.
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Old 2006-11-14, 15:41   Link #52
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KatonMakai View Post
-I guess some people don't consider "dead heroes" to be eligable. But if you include the Hokages (previous and current) then all are geniouses. Shodaime and Nidaime for obvious reasons, Sandaime knew every jutsu in Konoha (or so he claimed to Konohamaru's class when he called himself the "Professor") excluding Rasengan and Hiraishin. Yondaime you already mentioned and Tsunade (Godaime) but lately she seems to have been acting stupid (Niju Shotai anybody?).

Funny you are mentioning this because some time ago a thread was created about geniuses:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=29884

You could say that this is one of the rare Thread of YF that really made some sense…but then again, we all know why He created a thread asking who is the greatest Genius =P

-----
Quote:
Originally Posted by s-class uchiha View Post
Ic ic...

Okay That puts him at 11 when theUchiha cops come to him right?
Yes

Quote:
So are you saying that he is captain in 6 months? (I'd buy that)
No as Kakashi said, He became Anbu Captain at age 13, So to put it like this: He was a Regular ANBU at age 10 1/2, Became involved with Akatsu at Age 11, and in this 2 Years he not only did things With Akatsuki, but HE also did well in ANBU, becoming a Captain 2 years later.

Quote:
second, are you saying that it is 2 years after the Uchiha cop meeting that Itachi destroys the clan. It really only seems like 2 days which would put him at 11.5 years old. NOT 13.

I guess that's why I'm confused and seems like Kishi is wrong. I'd have to agree with everything you said so far, but from what I see either Kakashi was wrong about him becoming captain at 13, that his chuunnin exam age was wrong, or kishi and the data book are wrong.
Yes it only seems like some days just passed after the Uchiha Cop meeting, and this is what Confuses (It still confuses me sometimes), but The only way we could tell that 2 years pass since that day is because the Manga before already stated that Itachi Became ANBU captain at Age 13 and that the same day of the Massacre, Sasuke had the same age as when Itachi Graduated the Academy, 7 Years,

And we know that Itahci and Sasuke have around 5 Years in difference,-taking in account that they do not have the same Birth Date (Sasuke was Born in July 23rd and Itahic in June 9th), this place Itachi at 13 Years old. While Sasuke at age 7, but almost turning 8


I used this timeline before:


- Achieved Sharingan (8)
- Became Chuunin (10)
- Became ANBU (10.5) - Sasuke entered Academy (5 - 6)
- Killled Shisui (11) -Sasuke Got his first semester grades (6)
- Became ANBU captain (13 ) -Sasuke Learned Katon (7-8)
- Killed clan (13)


Quote:
I can see how he joined akatsuki early and scared off oro at 11, but this doesn't jive well w/ Kakashi "anbu capt. at 13 statement.".
It goes well with that as I tried to explain it above, but how about Jiriaya saying that Oro left Akatsuki Just recently?

Dauthi, You should be happy this explanation only helps make Itahci look as the uber genius
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Old 2006-11-14, 15:51   Link #53
Dauthi
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Originally Posted by KatonMakai View Post
-True, very true. But for the sake of simplicity shouldn't we focus on the 3 characters that were there at the start: Itachi, Neji, Sasuke? But I can agree, Haku is certainly a genious, maybe even more so than Itachi. But, although he invented his Hyoton jutsu, was he not trained by the Mizu ANBU and Zabuza?
Yeah, he was taught basics and probably advanced mist jutsu. But like i said, his bloodline jutsus were completely and entirely created by himself. It wasn't a simplistic jutsu he created either, pretty complex and very effective. Same goes for Kimi, although he had time around his own people to see how to use his bloodline, and his techniques weren't as elegant/complex as Hakus (imo).

In any case, both are dead, so meh. =)

Rurik --->

What he accomplished is surely amazing. Like i said, even without sharingan its a possibility he could have beaten Neji/Sasuke in a fight (at the same age as them). That is mere speculation, and opinion though. It just doesnt seem that sharingan was what made him such a genious, but rather he was a rare prodigy out of the entire world. He mature/intelligent at age 10.. scared Oro, and defeated his entire clan.. it takes a lot more than a simple MS or sharingan to accomplish that much.
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Old 2006-11-14, 15:55   Link #54
Mr. Johnny 5
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That about Kimmimaro & Haku is an unfair statement when you compare that to Neji.

The first 2...Kimi & Haku were as little kids involved in battles beyond a genin lvl. Ofcourse they had powerfull allies beside them (Kimi had his bone defense) while Haku had Zabuza & his henchmen...

So their experience is extremely different compared to Neji...who had his first true combat (during missions probably)

I'd say Neji is probably the greatest genius (prodigy) born within Konoha borders.
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Old 2006-11-14, 16:02   Link #55
Dauthi
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
That about Kimmimaro & Haku is an unfair statement when you compare that to Neji.

The first 2...Kimi & Haku were as little kids involved in battles beyond a genin lvl. Ofcourse they had powerfull allies beside them (Kimi had his bone defense) while Haku had Zabuza & his henchmen...

So their experience is extremely different compared to Neji...who had his first true combat (during missions probably)

I'd say Neji is probably the greatest genius (prodigy) born within Konoha borders.
Only comparing bloodlines. Others are bringing up that Neji taught himself his own bloodline techniques (jyuuken). However he had to have knowledge of the name/brief description of what it did, and try to recreate it from there. He didn't have to teach himself Jyuuken im suspecting, as all hyuuga learn this.

Haku had nothing to work from. He had ice, and invented a truely unique bloodline technique himself.
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Old 2006-11-14, 16:25   Link #56
s-class uchiha
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post

Yes it only seems like some days just passed after the Uchiha Cop meeting, and this is what Confuses (It still confuses me sometimes), but The only way we could tell that 2 years pass since that day is because the Manga before already stated that Itachi Became ANBU captain at Age 13 and that the same day of the Massacre, Sasuke had the same age as when Itachi Graduated the Academy, 7 Years,

And we know that Itahci and Sasuke have around 5 Years in difference,-taking in account that they do not have the same Birth Date (Sasuke was Born in July 23rd and Itahic in June 9th), this place Itachi at 13 Years old. While Sasuke at age 7, but almost turning 8


I used this timeline before:


- Achieved Sharingan (8)
- Became Chuunin (10)
- Became ANBU (10.5) - Sasuke entered Academy (5 - 6)
- Killled Shisui (11) -Sasuke Got his first semester grades (6)
- Became ANBU captain (13 ) -Sasuke Learned Katon (7-8)
- Killed clan (13)

Yeah, I agree its the only way to make sense of it all, EXCEPT for the part where we are both confused. You might have missed it, but they Uchiha Police didn't come 2 years after, but right after with the "suicide note" and all. They found his body right afterwards and was investigating. The very natural reading of the Uchiha story places it like this, but I think we have to just let that little piece go and just assume that some time did pass.


Don't you think the suicide note and finding him dead was pretty much + the fact that right after this incident he killed everyone points to plot hole?! You gotta admit it!

Your explanation fo 10-11 is right on, but if he took the chuunin exam at the regular age ~12 or 13 all this fits - but than the chuunin exam age of 10 wouldn't fit!!!

argh! Better to stick w/ your explanation and then say there's a plot hole with a inadvertant statement by kakashi that Kishi didn't know the ramifications of.
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Old 2006-11-14, 17:28   Link #57
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I think it's hard to compare such a thing. Definitely since there's an infinite amount of knowledge...someone always knows something you don't so you really can't be *Genius* If you are not in fact super smarter than your peers. And seeing if he was smarter than Akatsuki Leader...he wouldn't be following this guy around now would he. sure at this point in time you can judge but later is always pending.

Also: jfkfjfjkfjkflsjlfjs I really don't like the poll answers we can do since ...not everyone would pick one of the 3.
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Old 2006-11-14, 18:31   Link #58
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i think there is no one that can be compared to itachi. yes everyone know that neji is a genius but he's only genius at the hyuuga clan's abilities. if there are some one who can be compared to itachi's level would be hokage, sannins and akatsuki members.

One of the reason that itachi is the super genius and strong that he killed his own clan by himself and everyone of them was sharingan user.
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Old 2006-11-14, 20:08   Link #59
Zu Ra
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What I dont get in this poll is why is Itachi put in the same league as Super Dweeb Sauckay and Neji ????? . I mean are they no better comparisions like Tsu Oro Jir are called genius ninja hence their titles .

Its an insult for Itachi to be compared to Sauckay and Neji . Shikamaru maybe but Sauckay
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Old 2006-11-14, 20:59   Link #60
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
What I dont get in this poll is why is Itachi put in the same league as Super Dweeb Sauckay and Neji ????? . I mean are they no better comparisions like Tsu Oro Jir are called genius ninja hence their titles .

Its an insult for Itachi to be compared to Sauckay and Neji . Shikamaru maybe but Sauckay

It's a comparison of their progression and accomplishments. We have fairly detailed information about how Sasuke, Itachi and Neji progressed through the ranks of ninja, what kind of training they had and when they gained their abilities. The pasts of the Sanin aren't very clear at the moment. The databook can tell us when they graduated the academy and how many missions they've accomplished but it can't tell us something like, oh say, when Jiraiya was first able to summon Gamabunta. All we really know is that Orochimaru progressed the fastest.
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