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View Poll Results: Favourite Code Geass Characters Poll (Multiple Choice!)
Lelouch Lamperouge / Zero 945 67.50%
Suzaku Kururugi 223 15.93%
C.C. 812 58.00%
Karen Stadtfeld 536 38.29%
Nunally Lamperouge 167 11.93%
Shirley Fenete 208 14.86%
Milly Ashford 174 12.43%
Rivalz Cardemonde 44 3.14%
Nina Einstein 26 1.86%
Lloyd Asplund 213 15.21%
Cecile Croomy 105 7.50%
Cornelia Li Brittania 190 13.57%
Euphemia Li Brittania 210 15.00%
Jeremiah Gottwald 120 8.57%
Viletta Nui 104 7.43%
Diethard Lied 74 5.29%
Shinichirou Tamaki 22 1.57%
Sayoko 74 5.29%
Kyoushirou Toudou 62 4.43%
Clovis La Britannia 38 2.71%
The Emperor 52 3.71%
Authur (the cat) 165 11.79%
Kaname Ougi 40 2.86%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 1400. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-06-17, 10:53   Link #521
Dann of Thursday
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Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Main =/= only. Thanks.
What is your problem? Main implies there can be sub goals. Only means only. And it was confirmed that his main goal was that.
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Old 2008-06-17, 10:53   Link #522
Amray
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I actually prefer Suzaku now. For some odd reason about half way through the series I started seeing things from his perspective and started seeing him as a good guy. Not sure why. I liked the story between him and Euphimia, it was truely epic. (Euphie was so figgin' hot!)
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Old 2008-06-17, 10:54   Link #523
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
I think the thing that irritates some about Suzaku is that he talks about wanting to help people, but is really only interested in becoming a martyr to make himself feel better. And this is the truth about how he was in season 1.
The fact that he wanted to die doesn't mean that he didn't believe in what he was doing
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Old 2008-06-17, 10:55   Link #524
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
What is your problem? Main implies there can be sub goals. Only means only. And it was confirmed that his main goal was that.
My problem is that people keep interpreting "main" as "only". Which is what you did a few posts ago.
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Old 2008-06-17, 10:58   Link #525
Dann of Thursday
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The fact that he wanted to die doesn't mean that he didn't believe in what he was doing
Except it he didn't really believe in what he was doing all that much. It was for the most part just to make himself feel better.

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My problem is that people keep interpreting "main" as "only". Which is what you did a few posts ago.
I did, did I? I don't recall trying to mean that.
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Old 2008-06-17, 10:58   Link #526
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Except this was confirmed by the staff about Suzaku. And I don't hate Suzaku either. His season 1 form annoys me is all. And yes, Lelouch does want to restore Japan. And his main goal is to create a peaceful world for his sister which is something people seem to forget sometimes.
You see, I think that he is using Nunnally as an excuse for what he is really doing this for. Why do I say this? Because he has been planning to destroy Britannia since before he even got the Geass. Heck, he wanted it destroyed right after his mother was killed. Also, Nunnally didn't make that wish till about Episode 3, by then Clovis was already dead and he was already set on destroying Britannia with the help of his Geass.

As for Suzaku's selfishness with wanting to be a martyr, I thin that didn't end in Season 2, I think it ended the moment he decided to help Euphie out and took back his title of being her knight. Also, I think he really DOES want to help people (remember when he saved that falling mother and her child while chasing down Lelouch in Ep. 2?) He may want to be a martyr, but he is still a person that doesn't like to see people hurt.

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He did, but if you watched the episode you would see he abandoned that plan.
Only because Euphie said she gave up her position for taking the crown. HE would have gotten something out of it.

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And Lelouch is at least honest about his actions being evil at times. He's acknowledged that several times unlike Suzaku. That's been a reason I have seen for people being less critical on him.
He may be honest about it to himself, but that doesn't stop him from continuing doing it now does it?
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:00   Link #527
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
I did, did I? I don't recall trying to mean that.
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
I think the thing that irritates some about Suzaku is that he talks about wanting to help people, but is really only interested in becoming a martyr to make himself feel better. And this is the truth about how he was in season 1.
"Only". You did.
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:06   Link #528
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You see, I think that he is using Nunnally as an excuse for what he is really doing this for. Why do I say this? Because he has been planning to destroy Britannia since before he even got the Geass. Heck, he wanted it destroyed right after his mother was killed. Also, Nunnally didn't make that wish till about Episode 3, by then Clovis was already dead and he was already set on destroying Britannia with the help of his Geass.

As for Suzaku's selfishness with wanting to be a martyr, I thin that didn't end in Season 2, I think it ended the moment he decided to help Euphie out and took back his title of being her knight. Also, I think he really DOES want to help people (remember when he saved that falling mother and her child while chasing down Lelouch in Ep. 2?) He may want to be a martyr, but he is still a person that doesn't like to see people hurt.

He may be honest about it to himself, but that doesn't stop him from continuing doing it now does it?
Except he isn't. And of course he wanted to destroy them? He wanted a world where Nunnally wouldn't be cast aside because of what happened to her. And when did he want it destroyed after his mother got killed. He didn't say such a thing until he saw an entire country be conquered by them, which was the country of his friend.

And how do you know that was the first time she ever said such a thing? That may have been the first time she ever had them make a promise, but that doesn't mean it was the first time she ever said it.

That incident in season 1 doesn't mean much. He could have died while doing that too while in the process of saving her.

So Lelouch likes to see people get hurt then?

Does he have a choice, but to continue? Nothing is ever going to change just sitting around.

And you really think the only reason he stopped was because she gave up the crown? Really?
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:13   Link #529
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All I remember is him saying that he wanted a world where his sister could live happily. That could mean anything. He just wants to destry Britannia mainly because of his father. He is the main enemy and target for lelouch. You could see that by the evil looks he gave him when he was saying that speech, and also in the flashbacks because he ticked him off saying that he was a brat that did not matter, nor did Nunally or the death of their Mother matter to him.

lelouch is just angry with his Father, it was all him to begin with. Nunally is (hot) just a side-quest, although he still wants her safe and still loves her. He also just plain hates what the Empire did to his life, AKA ruining it twice.
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:13   Link #530
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Except he isn't.
Why do you say this?

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And of course he wanted to destroy them? He wanted a world where Nunnally wouldn't be cast aside because of what happened to her.
You see, that is not really on anybody but his father. I don't even think most of the Royal Family thinks along the same lines as the Emperor does with only the strong survive bull.

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And when did he want it destroyed after his mother got killed. He didn't say such a thing until he saw an entire country be conquered by them, which was the country of his friend.
Ah yes. My bad on that part.

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And how do you know that was the first time she ever said such a thing? That may have been the first time she ever had them make a promise, but that doesn't mean it was the first time she ever said it.
If that was the case, why would Lelouch ask what her wish was if he already knew?

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That incident in season 1 doesn't mean much. He could have died while doing that too while in the process of saving her.
And that would be grasping at straws. Try again.

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So Lelouch likes to see people get hurt then?
I don't know, lets compare Lelouch's actions to Suzaku's... Does he want to see people close to him hurt? I would have to say no. But does he honestly care about anybody else? His actions say no.

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Does he have a choice, but to continue? Nothing is ever going to change just sitting around.
That is true. But he can change the way he operates. Which eh doesn't.

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And you really think the only reason he stopped was because she gave up the crown? Really?
Since he wanted to go through with it till she said that, yes.
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:21   Link #531
Dann of Thursday
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Originally Posted by Amray View Post
All I remember is him saying that he wanted a world where his sister could live happily. That could mean anything. He just wants to destry Britannia mainly because of his father. He is the main enemy and target for lelouch. You could see that by the evil looks he gave him when he was saying that speech, and also in the flashbacks because he ticked him off saying that he was a brat that did not matter, nor did Nunally or the death of their Mother matter to him.

lelouch is just angry with his Father, it was all him to begin with. Nunally is (hot) just a side-quest, although he still wants her safe and still loves her. He also just plain hates what the Empire did to his life, AKA ruining it twice.
Really and how do you know? And he was giving those looks because his embodies what is wrong with this world in Lelouch's eyes and what gives Nunnally no real chance in this world.

No it wasn't. His mother was killed, his sister was paralyzed and he watched as she was disregarded because she was considered weak. Then he watched this happen to a whole country.

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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Why do you say this?

You see, that is not really on anybody but his father. I don't even think most of the Royal Family thinks along the same lines as the Emperor does with only the strong survive bull.

If that was the case, why would Lelouch ask what her wish was if he already knew?

And that would be grasping at straws. Try again.

I don't know, lets compare Lelouch's actions to Suzaku's... Does he want to see people close to him hurt? I would have to say no. But does he honestly care about anybody else? His actions say no.

That is true. But he can change the way he operates. Which eh doesn't.

Since he wanted to go through with it till she said that, yes.
Because comments by FO and the staff make be believe it as such along with what I see in the show itself.

Is it? We've seen several people who believe the same things and it seems rather common for people to believe in that survival of the fittest. Some people may not think this way, but the majority probably do and info suggests that several do think this way.

Just to reaffirm it. They had to have a scene like that after all to present to the audience his main goal.

I could say the same of you explanation.

How is he supposed to change? Any plausible suggestions that would guarantee the same results?

That was simply the part that caught him off guard enough for her to explain everything. Doesn't mean it was the only reason he didn't do it.
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:28   Link #532
Orga777
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Because comments by FO and the staff make be believe it as such along with what I see in the show itself.
Well, from what I have seen so far, I have to disagree. It may be a small reason, but his main goal is for himself, not Nunnally. Just as people say Suzaku is using his help for others to make himself feel better, Lelouch used Nunnally as a crutch to do all that he is doing. It is jsut how it comes off.

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Is it? We've seen several people who believe the same things and it seems rather common for people to believe in that survival of the fittest. Some people may not think this way, but the majority probably do and info suggests that several do think this way.
I have to disagree. It is evident that Charles prefers conflict. Even Schneizel prefers negotiation (like with the EU and CU.)

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I could say the same of you explanation.
You can, but it isn't as bad as that. Seriously now. That was just grasping at something so far out there that it just isn't a probability.

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How is he supposed to change? Any plausible suggestions that would guarantee the same results?
How could he change? By NOT being a jerk maybe? Instead of blowing up everything in site, shooting people in the face, and going around manipulating every little detail in the most blood-spilled way possible he can go a different route.

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That was simply the part that caught him off guard enough for her to explain everything. Doesn't mean it was the only reason he didn't do it.
If you want to think that, all the power to you. But I have to disagree.
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:29   Link #533
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No it wasn't. His mother was killed, his sister was paralyzed and he watched as she was disregarded because she was considered weak. Then he watched this happen to a whole country.

Yes, hence the "Ruined his life twice" part.

First he was seen as a waste of time, which is how the emperor also saw Nunally as too, as she was disabled. That really ticked him off as we all know because he stormed out and refused to be the future ruler. He was then banished to some random country that he was probably too young to know existed along with his blind sister, and THEN, just as he had adapted to the country the same people that ruined his life to begin with take the whole place under their control.
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:32   Link #534
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*sigh* This is a waste of time. Nothing is going to change from all this. Suzaku will still be something akin to the paragon of good and Lelouch will still be the epitome of evil and selfishness despite things being said to have been different on Lelouch's side of things. That black and white way of looking at things can be hard to get rid of.
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:34   Link #535
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Well, what can I say? Lelouch is an Anti-Hero. He does bad things for a good cause. Well....from his point of view.
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:36   Link #536
Dann of Thursday
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Well, what can I say? Lelouch is an Anti-Hero. He does bad things for a good cause. Well....from his point of view.
And from the Director's.
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:38   Link #537
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And from the Director's.
Naturally. They are Elevens after all.
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:39   Link #538
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Well, I mean that Taniguchi's intention is for Lelouch to be like that. He did say Lelouch will become more likable to viewers, though that will never change things for some people. I wonder if he might even make Lelouch the villain in the end and switch to making Suzaku the next Kira Yamato.
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:40   Link #539
Orga777
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*sigh* This is a waste of time. Nothing is going to change from all this. Suzaku will still be something akin to the paragon of good and Lelouch will still be the epitome of evil and selfishness despite things being said to have been different on Lelouch's side of things. That black and white way of looking at things can be hard to get rid of.
Now I am not demonizing Lelouch here nor am I going to hold Suzaku on a pedestal of good. I am just making a point that if people hate one character because of certain flaws, then they should hate the other one that has the same problems. That is all I am trying to do here because it doesn't make sense when people hate Suzaku when Lelouch is just as badly flawed if not more so than Suzaku is.

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And from the Director's.
Ok, I am not so sure of this at all. The director is CLEARLY making it so that the viewer decides on their own who they think is good/evil. It isn't clear cut at all (which is what makes this anime so interesting.)
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:41   Link #540
Dann of Thursday
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I don't see all the same problems present in Suzaku present in Lelouch and vice versa.

Taniguchi does do that, but he has made it clear what his position on things is.
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