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Old 2008-04-22, 12:23   Link #1421
JMvS
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
These things are more relevant to a Japanese than most things the US does, because frankly with only the JSDF, Japan has no means to participate in the War on Terror anyway.
Budget-wise, JSDF is the second army in the world, but being solely a Self-Defense Force, they barely have any projection power as military world power like the U.K or France retain.
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Old 2008-04-22, 12:30   Link #1422
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMvS View Post
Budget-wise, JSDF is the second army in the world, but being solely a Self-Defense Force, they barely have any projection power as military world power like the U.K or France retain.
That's what I mean. They can't do anything at all not because they can't, but because they aren't allowed to.
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Old 2008-04-22, 13:18   Link #1423
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
That's what I mean. They can't do anything at all not because they can't, but because they aren't allowed to.
One important thing is that it's now changing and is a noticeable debate subject among japanese opinion and politics.

Since 1992, a law allowed participation in peacekeeping missions, and since 2004 they are present in Iraq for reconstruction, but "unarmed" and under the protection of other country's troops: the latter deployment is considered illegal by part of the opinion.

Aside from CG, questions about the role of JSDF has quite develloped these past few years in both anime and manga.

What concern me about this evolution, is that my country faced a quite similar controversy recently: I live in Switzerland, a country emphasizing neutrality and whose militia army has been dedicated to sole self defense for about 400 years.

We are not part of NATO and until recently weren't part of UN, so our only foreign military deployment was our only general sitting in an office in the DMZ between the two Koreas.
But after the end of the Kosovo War in 1999, our politics decided to deploy the Swisscoy: a rebuilding-aid volunteers contingent.
This triggered a significative controvery in our country, as our Constitution forbide armed troops deployment abroad. So there were considerable debates between those who criticized the Swisscoy idea, the deployment of unarmed swiss citizens in a conflict zone and the supporters of international cooperation.
The conclusion was something similar to the paradox of JSDF deployed in Iraq: soldiers tagged unarmed altough carrying their personal weapon, and protected by other country's armed (with armed vehicles thus) troops.

Hopefully I will never be asked to go, as these missions are only for volunteers
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Old 2008-04-22, 14:55   Link #1424
SuperKnuckles
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Japan also seems to fashion itself after relative pacifism so I don't think they really have the means otherwise in terms of their overall international philosophy. Even if they truly want to militarize again, I think that might create a lot of problems internationally. Then again, JSDF and the relative ruse of being a defense only force is working. For now anyway.

Also, such pacifism is probably their subconscious (or may as well be fully intentional) acknowledgment that their people can't handle major wars and they made quite a share of international trouble by it.

Really, in the Geass world, I don't think that kind of self-restriction really carries over unless they did the whole 'keep Korea under lock and key for 50 years' thing.
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Old 2008-04-22, 15:21   Link #1425
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Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Japan also seems to fashion itself after relative pacifism so I don't think they really have the means otherwise in terms of their overall international philosophy.
Pacifism is here a key world: the -ism connotes a will of promoting peace abroad, not only in conferences, but also by meddling in conflicts, either active or passive, generally using military power.
The thing I think japanese people are attached is more like neutrality, but it seems that, like in my country, some politicians are eagering to play a role in The Great Game of international politics, thus discarding the previous neutrality their country have maintained.

Thus there is a pressure in neutral countries who had purely defense oriented armies during the Cold War to develop projection forces for such peace promoting operations.
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Old 2008-04-22, 15:32   Link #1426
Anh_Minh
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I wouldn't call you much of a pacifist if you enforce your ideals, no matter what they are, with military power.
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Old 2008-04-22, 15:58   Link #1427
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I wouldn't call you much of a pacifist if you enforce your ideals, no matter what they are, with military power.
Well being pacific and promoting pacifism are alas two different things in our world.
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Old 2008-04-22, 16:18   Link #1428
Anh_Minh
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I don't think many people are that confused. You see, just saying "stop fighting", or "let's not fight" isn't pacifism, and can be enforced with military might.

But you can't be a pacifist if you fight.
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Old 2008-04-22, 18:02   Link #1429
4Tran
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Pacifism is the disavowal of the use of violence in order to pursue a goal; hence, any action that involves the use of violence is not a pacifistic one. Not liking the use of force isn't particularly unusual, and it certainly does not qualify one as a pacifist. Even taken to an extreme (but still short of a disavowal of the use of violence), the character can be said to have pacifistic tendencies, but he would still not be a pacifist. In fact, the only character in Code Geass that comes to mind as a pacifist is Euphemia.
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Old 2008-04-22, 19:06   Link #1430
Witacume
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Pacifism is the disavowal of the use of violence in order to pursue a goal; hence, any action that involves the use of violence is not a pacifistic one. Not liking the use of force isn't particularly unusual, and it certainly does not qualify one as a pacifist. Even taken to an extreme (but still short of a disavowal of the use of violence), the character can be said to have pacifistic tendencies, but he would still not be a pacifist. In fact, the only character in Code Geass that comes to mind as a pacifist is Euphemia.
Well Euphemia would be the closest to being pacifist that we got so far. Yet she still allows for Suzaku to defend people. like when they are in the island. Pacifism is something that is grand and really only accomplish by a elite few. (Ghandi)
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Old 2008-04-23, 02:04   Link #1431
SuperKnuckles
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I wouldn't call you much of a pacifist if you enforce your ideals, no matter what they are, with military power.
Except it's a necessary evil. Note how I said "relatively pacifistic". Compared to armies with full offense capabilities and a mandate that lets them invade other nations in an offensive act, that is QUITE different from an army that at least fashions itself more as a police force than a real army. Even the most neutral nations do have armies not to fight but to defend itself in case of outside intervention.

Really, there is really no such a thing as true neutrality or true pacifism. It's about the relative amount you put in practice in terms of moderation. Japan, for being a 1st world power, is definitely more of a pacifistic type of force than most.

I mean, besides full blown wars and other acts of violent subjugation asides, the military usage in a defensive manner as it is for vast majority of cases. You don't see all militaries go all out and fight all the time. Even the US forces have a large peacekeeping contingency.

I think correlating passive military usage to the general train of political thought is different. Sure, it's not a pure ideology but if it's close enough, that's what you'd generally call it. Like how America isn't a total capitalistic society due to its heavily socialistic tax applications and how China isn't a total control state anymore.
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