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Old 2007-05-05, 18:43   Link #441
lightbringer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezy View Post
Ayano can be a bit annoying at times, but she can be funny too.

I'm sure she'll mature later.
Also, anyone knows how many episodes this anime will be?
I hope to god there'll be more than 13 or 26..
26 according to ANN. Not sure where they got that number from though.
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Old 2007-05-05, 19:16   Link #442
kaerstan01
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ya, probably it would be 24 or 26 episodes, based on the info i gathered from you guys, if volume one ended in episode 4, knowing that there are 6 volumes all in all that had been released way back 2005, more likely it would be 4 episodes(atleast) per volume or so...

guys, am i the only one loving ayano here?? <3 i mean, based on experience, theyre the SWEETEST among the girls out there when tamed... trust me lol
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Old 2007-05-05, 19:39   Link #443
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Originally Posted by PreSage View Post
Been a while since I've posted on AS .

Funny how I share the majorities' view about Ayano: she's annoying. I don't really have anything against her personality aside from the fact that she doesn't use her head most of the time by jumping to conclusions based on what she sees immediately before her. That's what I find annoying - and her unjustified conceit.

I totally agree that Kazuma really does save this series - and the sole reason that I actually watch it at all. I prefer calm, intelligent lead characters as oppose to the witless characters that some anime protagonists are made out of these days .

I'm just waiting for Kazuma to kick Ayano's conceit out of her, along with the rest of the Kannagi family - except for the head, I'll spare him, since he's more understanding and open-minded.
He's already whooped his old man, and thats all he was interested in. Though with Ayano as the next head, the family is screwed anyway >.<
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Old 2007-05-05, 20:09   Link #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
He's already whooped his old man, and thats all he was interested in. Though with Ayano as the next head, the family is screwed anyway >.<
that's being quite judgmental... I mean, it's rare for people to have qualities of being a clan head at that age right? (only for exceptional people)... she has the abilties (as a flame wielder), just needs improvement on the wisdom + experience part

and regarding Kazuma... he's actually deeper than that. What he simply wanted to achieve when he fought with his father and see if he can finally surpass his father whom he looked up to. And of course there's more to his comeback than simply wanting to take revenge or anything like that
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Old 2007-05-05, 20:11   Link #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreSage View Post
Been a while since I've posted on AS .

Funny how I share the majorities' view about Ayano: she's annoying. I don't really have anything against her personality aside from the fact that she doesn't use her head most of the time by jumping to conclusions based on what she sees immediately before her. That's what I find annoying - and her unjustified conceit.

I totally agree that Kazuma really does save this series - and the sole reason that I actually watch it at all. I prefer calm, intelligent lead characters as oppose to the witless characters that some anime protagonists are made out of these days .

I'm just waiting for Kazuma to kick Ayano's conceit out of her, along with the rest of the Kannagi family - except for the head, I'll spare him, since he's more understanding and open-minded.
Agree with you there, PreSage ^^
The biggest point (?) of this series is indeed the male lead Kazuma. And I believe the reason why I don't dislike Ayano as much as I should be is because there's Kazuma... so it turns out that her annoyingness becomes quite funny when combined with the way he handles her brattiness
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Old 2007-05-05, 21:16   Link #446
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Originally Posted by usagijen View Post
that's being quite judgmental... I mean, it's rare for people to have qualities of being a clan head at that age right? (only for exceptional people)... she has the abilties (as a flame wielder), just needs improvement on the wisdom + experience part
Well, as he said, she's useless. Sure she has Enraiha, but she can barely use it. She cant control her flames properly. Right now she barely has the abilities, she dosent have control or understanding, both of which she needs, and both of which she wont get unless she has a HUGE personality change. Lukily Yagami is the guy to give her the personality change. Beat her up a few times and she'll get the point

Quote:
and regarding Kazuma... he's actually deeper than that. What he simply wanted to achieve when he fought with his father and see if he can finally surpass his father whom he looked up to. And of course there's more to his comeback than simply wanting to take revenge or anything like that
My comments were based on whats known now (its cheating using future eps or the books heheh). After he's beaten his old man he falls to his knees and asks (forgotten who he asks) whats he supposed to do now. That to me just screams that he's finished what he wanted to do, beat his old man, and is at a loss of what to do next.

I look forward to seeing just what he does from now on.
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Old 2007-05-05, 22:16   Link #447
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Whew. I'm not in the minority here. So many series have been major let-downs because of the main leads. I'm tired of the hot-headed, hot-blooded, clueless main characters. It's been beaten on worse than the harem genre. Where are all the anime with the cool, mysterious, badass guys who have a closet full of skeletons that need to be dug out? Much more interesting than watching someone angst over everything like an idiot.

Will
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Old 2007-05-05, 22:43   Link #448
lightbringer
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Whew. I'm not in the minority here. So many series have been major let-downs because of the main leads. I'm tired of the hot-headed, hot-blooded, clueless main characters. It's been beaten on worse than the harem genre. Where are all the anime with the cool, mysterious, badass guys who have a closet full of skeletons that need to be dug out? Much more interesting than watching someone angst over everything like an idiot.

Will
We've pretty much established consensus that this series rocks hard because Kazuma is a badass lead Cool and collected, with wisdom to pass down to Ayano but still with a whole bunch of existential issues to deal with. I'll also add my voice to the others saying Ayano is very tolerable in combination with Kazuma. The part in episode two where she was going psycho at the cake cafe was also very much fun to watch Anyway, she's already going deredere and I'm sure it'll only get better from here on out.

I'm also having high expectations of Ren, who might well complete the combat trio... or at least provide competent backup against unnamed mobs
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Old 2007-05-05, 23:04   Link #449
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Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by usagijen View Post
that's being quite judgmental... I mean, it's rare for people to have qualities of being a clan head at that age right? (only for exceptional people)... she has the abilties (as a flame wielder), just needs improvement on the wisdom + experience part
Well, as he said, she's useless. Sure she has Enraiha, but she can barely use it. She cant control her flames properly. Right now she barely has the abilities, she dosent have control or understanding, both of which she needs, and both of which she wont get unless she has a HUGE personality change. Lukily Yagami is the guy to give her the personality change. Beat her up a few times and she'll get the point
Ayano is annoying right now (but hopefully she'll mature out of it later ) and her abilities are limited at present as well. I think her calibar would be higher if she hasn't been so spoiled. It's obvious from her over-confident attitude of her ability that the Kannagi family gave her only praise and never really criticize her - a big mistake for a fledgling of any kind in any field. Criticism, although painful at times, can be a great motivation to be better. So she should consider her encounter with Kazuma a blessing, since his criticism and clearly superior skills will force her to better herself in order to match him. However, if she doesn't get this...then the Kannagi family is truly doomed .

Kazuma is as good as he is because of the putdowns he received since he was young (I'm not saying this is always a good thing to be stronger ). The feeling of anger and desire to prove himself to those who looked down upon him drove him to succeed. But I have to say that Kazuma was and has always been a smart kid - he chose to put his anger at his family in a productive way instead of being hateful or fall into depression. The Kannagi family, in their blinded discrimination, have booted out the better of the two potential leaders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by usagijen View Post
and regarding Kazuma... he's actually deeper than that. What he simply wanted to achieve when he fought with his father and see if he can finally surpass his father whom he looked up to. And of course there's more to his comeback than simply wanting to take revenge or anything like that
My comments were based on whats known now (its cheating using future eps or the books heheh). After he's beaten his old man he falls to his knees and asks (forgotten who he asks) whats he supposed to do now. That to me just screams that he's finished what he wanted to do, beat his old man, and is at a loss of what to do next.

I look forward to seeing just what he does from now on.
Although proving himself to his former family is definitely a sentiment he harbours, I also don't think it is all he thinks about. Upon his return, Kazuma didn't really seek the Kannagi clan out to prove his powers - he only showed his ability when given the opportunity upon meeting his father again. It is most likely that he returned for another reason as well. The most obvious of what he thinks about the past and about the Kannagi family in general was best seen when he talked to the Kannagi Head about why the Wind clan rebelled - basically, because of the power monopolizing and prejudice attitude of the Fire clan. I think, in a way, Kazuma wants to reveal this unacceptable side of the Kannagi family to the Kannagi family - much like what the current Head is trying to do now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
He's already whooped his old man, and thats all he was interested in. Though with Ayano as the next head, the family is screwed anyway >.<
If Ayano doesn't change...yes, the Kannagi family is most likely doomed . Although as annoying as she is now, I can see an underlying strength in her; that she is probably smart enough to learn and change (hopefully) - just hoping that change to be soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Whew. I'm not in the minority here. So many series have been major let-downs because of the main leads. I'm tired of the hot-headed, hot-blooded, clueless main characters. It's been beaten on worse than the harem genre. Where are all the anime with the cool, mysterious, badass guys who have a closet full of skeletons that need to be dug out? Much more interesting than watching someone angst over everything like an idiot.

Will
I know what you mean. I roll my eyes whenever I chance upon such lead characters before deleting the series. But currently there are a few strong characters. Have you seen Darker than Black or Ghost Hunt? Hei and Naru are far from hot-blooded and clueless . For female protagonists, currently I'd say Clare from Claymore and Balsa from Seirei no Moribito. Thank goodness for strong characters likes these that I have something to watch
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Last edited by PreSage; 2007-05-05 at 23:15.
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Old 2007-05-05, 23:44   Link #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreSage View Post
Ayano is annoying right now (but hopefully she'll mature out of it later ) and her abilities are limited at present as well. I think her calibar would be higher if she hasn't been so spoiled. It's obvious from her over-confident attitude of her ability that the Kannagi family gave her only praise and never really criticize her - a big mistake for a fledgling of any kind in any field. Criticism, although painful at times, can be a great motivation to be better. So she should consider her encounter with Kazuma a blessing, since his criticism and clearly superior skills will force her to better herself in order to match him. However, if she doesn't get this...then the Kannagi family is truly doomed .

Kazuma is as good as he is because of the putdowns he received since he was young (I'm not saying this is always a good thing to be stronger ). The feeling of anger and desire to prove himself to those who looked down upon him drove him to succeed. But I have to say that Kazuma was and has always been a smart kid - he chose to put his anger at his family in a productive way instead of being hateful or fall into depression. The Kannagi family, in their blinded discrimination, have booted out the better of the two potential leaders.



Although proving himself to his former family is definitely a sentiment he harbours, I also don't think it is all he thinks about. Upon his return, Kazuma didn't really seek the Kannagi clan out to prove his powers - he only showed his ability when given the opportunity upon meeting his father again. It is most likely that he returned for another reason as well. The most obvious of what he thinks about the past and about the Kannagi family in general was best seen when he talked to the Kannagi Head about why the Wind clan rebelled - basically, because of the power monopolizing and prejudice attitude of the Fire clan. I think, in a way, Kazuma wants to reveal this unacceptable side of the Kannagi family to the Kannagi family - much like what the current Head is trying to do now.



If Ayano doesn't change...yes, the Kannagi family is most likely doomed . Although as annoying as she is now, I can see an underlying strength in her; that she is probably smart enough to learn and change (hopefully) - just hoping that change to be soon.



I know what you mean. I roll my eyes whenever I chance upon such lead characters before deleting the series. But currently there are a few strong characters. Have you seen Darker than Black or Ghost Hunt? Hei and Naru are far from hot-blooded and clueless . For female protagonists, currently I'd say Clare from Claymore and Balsa from Seirei no Moribito. Thank goodness for strong characters likes these that I have something to watch
Naru rocks. End of story. I consider him a less combat version of Kazuma in a way.
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Old 2007-05-06, 00:18   Link #451
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I agree Clare and Balsa are awsome female leads. Balsa has the edge for me though, she's not a gloomy brooding the world hates me character. She's just a kick ass woman Not that i have anything against clare, im just get bored with the same old char personalities, ditzy scatter brained, or dark brooding and slightly evil. Balsa is a refreshing change, and she's drawn awsomely

One thing i do hope for this show is that they go into the contract a bit more. What it is exactly, what he had to give or will give to become one (since they seem to be rare), and just what it gives him.

I also hope Ren becomes a bit more of a main character. Not only is he cute, but he has a spine and kicks demon butt with the best of them
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Old 2007-05-06, 00:49   Link #452
Mentar
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I wonder what's with Kaze no Stigma that it attracts so many poor judges of characters?

Excuse me? Clare dark brooding and slightly evil (she obviously isn't ditzy scatter-brained)? You can't be serious. Dark - maybe. Brooding certainly not, but slightly evil?? Lord.

Also, I sense a significant testosterone overload in my Kazuma-avatar wielding anime colleagues. Guys, have you really missed Ayano's function as Kazuma's polar opposite? In other words, Kazuma couldn't come over as half as kakkoi if it weren't in contrast to Ayano. If you marvel at a great shadow, it's quite a bit silly to complain about the strong light. Because you can't have one without the other.

This show is a romantic action comedy, not Berserk 2 to live out male domination dreams
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Old 2007-05-06, 01:25   Link #453
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Clare has a brooding side, and you also get to see her slightly evil side later on. By evil i dont mean wiping out the world sort of thing. Just the way she acts. Most of the Claymores have a slightly evil taint, Teresa is a perfect example of it. I'm guessing it comes from the way they become claymores aswell as the youma influence.

Also i think your mistaking our complaints, Ayano (at the moment) wouldnt be really missed from the show. The first 4 eps could easily have been done without her, and i wouldnt consider her a polar opposite of Kazuma either to be honest.

The first ep alone showed he didnt need her to strut his funky stuff he did quite well on his own

As for it being Berserk 2, if it even remotly resembled that id of stopped watching within a few minutes. Personally i dispised Berserk in both manga and anime formats. And it's certainly not about wanting to live out my 'male domination dreams'. Since, frankly, i dont have any like that lol.

To be honest you could easily pair up Kazuma with say Balsa, and you' still have an awsome show (im talking personality here, not actual character). Actually it would probably be even better

Characters like Balsa who know what their skills are, can use them fully and arent either ditzzy surviving through flukes, or so dark they swallow all light, are rare. Characters like Ayano are a dime a million. and after all this time, getting quite boring.

I'll still be keeping my fingers and toes crossed hoping Ayano develops an actual personality and grows though
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Old 2007-05-06, 01:53   Link #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
I wonder what's with Kaze no Stigma that it attracts so many poor judges of characters?

Excuse me? Clare dark brooding and slightly evil (she obviously isn't ditzy scatter-brained)? You can't be serious. Dark - maybe. Brooding certainly not, but slightly evil?? Lord.

Also, I sense a significant testosterone overload in my Kazuma-avatar wielding anime colleagues. Guys, have you really missed Ayano's function as Kazuma's polar opposite? In other words, Kazuma couldn't come over as half as kakkoi if it weren't in contrast to Ayano. If you marvel at a great shadow, it's quite a bit silly to complain about the strong light. Because you can't have one without the other.

This show is a romantic action comedy, not Berserk 2 to live out male domination dreams
I have alot of respect for you, and for all you've done for the anime community. But alas, I think it's actually you that is a poor judge of character.

It's nothing about testosterone so much, as longing for characters with actual maturity. I'm tired of the angsty teenagers. I want the opposite of the model of character growth you seem to enjoy. I think much of it has to do with my age and maturity level. I cant relate to teenagers anymore(actually I never could to begin with ) So I want mature 20-30 year old characters with pasts that need to be revealed and the wounds of their hearts/minds/ whatever, healed.
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Old 2007-05-06, 01:56   Link #455
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Originally Posted by kaerstan01 View Post
guys, am i the only one loving ayano here?? <3 i mean, based on experience, theyre the SWEETEST among the girls out there when tamed... trust me lol
Nop, unlike most, i don't have any problems with her. It is very easy to see why she acts the way she does, and her initial anger at Kazuma is not without justifaction based on what she knew.

As for experience - i am sure she will get some. After all, there is limited amount of actual combat experience you can gain when you are the 3rd strongest fire user. At least up until now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PreSage
Kazuma is as good as he is because of the putdowns he received since he was young (I'm not saying this is always a good thing to be stronger ). The feeling of anger and desire to prove himself to those who looked down upon him drove him to succeed. But I have to say that Kazuma was and has always been a smart kid - he chose to put his anger at his family in a productive way instead of being hateful or fall into depression. The Kannagi family, in their blinded discrimination, have booted out the better of the two potential leaders.
Actually, as far as i understand, Kazuma is as strong as he is because he is a Contractor, not because of some 1337 training or whatever. While the power is undeniable, i doubt that making a contract with the wind spirit is worthy of so much praise as he seems to get.
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Old 2007-05-06, 02:15   Link #456
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I'm not so sure Skyfall. If contractors weren't all that, why arent there more of them running around? From what i picked up from the eps it seems to be a very special thing, the first Kannagi was a contractor, which is why they're able to use the fire spirits.

I doubt it was a case of spending sometime reading a few scrolls and chanting a few words to become a contractor, If it was that simple then everyone would be becoming contractors.

Also i think he probably has undergone some intensive trainning, since he wants to surpass his family, he wants to do it through his own power, not just restting on someone elses. Sure the contractor thing most likely gives him a power boost, and access to some stuff normal wind users probably cant. But to use the really powerful stuff takes time (see ep4).

That said, all of the families powers come from contractors, including the Kannagi. The only reason they can use it is because the first family head made a contract with the Fire King.

I also think they made the mistake of kicking him out, but then the family head already understands that, and regrets it. Yagami's old man has a similar attitude to Ayano's, in that he feels that fire is the best and anything else is useless.

I'm looking forward to how these conflicting beliefs are going to play out to be honest.
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Old 2007-05-06, 02:17   Link #457
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
It's nothing about testosterone so much, as longing for characters with actual maturity. I'm tired of the angsty teenagers. I want the opposite of the model of character growth you seem to enjoy. I think much of it has to do with my age and maturity level. I cant relate to teenagers anymore(actually I never could to begin with ) So I want mature 20-30 year old characters with pasts that need to be revealed and the wounds of their hearts/minds/ whatever, healed.
lol. Yes, as one gets closer to 30 it's harder to relate to loud boisterous teen characters or overly emo ones. Not that I mind character development...I love seeing characters grow. However, Ayano is a bit too much at times.

Quote:
Guys, have you really missed Ayano's function as Kazuma's polar opposite? In other words, Kazuma couldn't come over as half as kakkoi if it weren't in contrast to Ayano. If you marvel at a great shadow, it's quite a bit silly to complain about the strong light. Because you can't have one without the other.
Not really. She could be missing and I would still watch. In fact, I'd probably enjoy it more. She actually almost made me drop the show completely. I stick to it because Kazuma intrigues me and I am hoping for some growing up on her part.
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Old 2007-05-06, 02:30   Link #458
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Hmm...I'm kinda confused about the whole contractor thing...anyone care to explain again?
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Old 2007-05-06, 02:56   Link #459
Mentar
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Since age seems to be becoming an issue... *turns it on*

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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
It's nothing about testosterone so much, [...]
I'm glad that you had the honesty to add "so much" ... sorry js, but I remember your feedback also from other shows very well. Also, look at your signature...

Quote:
...as longing for characters with actual maturity. I'm tired of the angsty teenagers. I want the opposite of the model of character growth you seem to enjoy. I think much of it has to do with my age and maturity level. I cant relate to teenagers anymore(actually I never could to begin with ) So I want mature 20-30 year old characters with pasts that need to be revealed and the wounds of their hearts/minds/ whatever, healed.
If it were only about a wish for more mature characters and character settings, I'd wholeheartedly agree. Too many shows wallow in the immature setting for too long. I was more reacting to the constant and increasingly annoying whining of what I called and still call the "testosterone" front who demand a certain kind of "cool", "mature", "kickass" leads, completely ignoring the setup and intention of the story. That's what I'm commenting on. Guys, Kaze no Stigma is no male-domination poser show, it's not in the beginning, and it won't be like this in the end. If you can't live with this without plastering Ayano moaning all over the thread after every single episode - alas, it's your prerogative. Just like it's mine to point out that your repetitive annoyance is an annoyance to others aswell - me included.

Why don't you take Ayano just the same way Kazuma takes her (and I do 100% aswell, by the way): With a good degree of amused tolerance? He doesn't hate her at all, and he's hardly annoyed. He loves to tease the heck out of her, and in fact his character interactions with her have gone a long way to define his character in the first place. That's why I actually like BOTH characters alot: I can identify with Kazuma's reactions pretty well, and Ayano's antics are both funny IMHO (especially her SD moments) and understandable to me. The backbone of the story is (and will be) the interaction between these two. I'd suggest to get used to it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taliesin
Clare has a brooding side, and you also get to see her slightly evil side later on.
Oh, that's interesting. I doubt that you'll know the show any better than I do, but I'm always willing to learn. Please spoiler-tag me which would be her "evil" side later on. The maximum I'd be willing to concede is that she's driven by a less-than-honorable (but perfectly understandable) motive. But "evil" is something entirely different.

Quote:
Also i think your mistaking our complaints, Ayano (at the moment) wouldnt be really missed from the show. The first 4 eps could easily have been done without her, and i wouldnt consider her a polar opposite of Kazuma either to be honest.
I'd say she is. Where Kazuma is calm and calculating, she's fiery and impulsive. Where he's a loner outcast, she's firmly enrooted in her family and friends, as heir to the Enraiha. Where his specialties are evasion, surveillance and defense, her specialty is the frontal assault. His displayed materialism is matched by her idealism. And and and...

They are the two main characters, whether you want that or not. Could you have told the story without Ayano? Yes, but it would have made the show very unidimensional. Returning outcast gets framed, forced into a conflict with his former clan, kicks the tar out of them and eventually rescues his small brother abducted by evildoers, whacking medium boss 1. Dup de doo. Also, with Ayano, basically all of the humor would be lost aswell. I strongly doubt that this could keep my interest, and it would DEFINITELY be much less diverse.

Quote:
I'll still be keeping my fingers and toes crossed hoping Ayano develops an actual personality and grows though
Oh, she already HAS an actual personality. If I were you, I'd prepare for seeing gradual changes in Kazuma aswell, _caused_ by Ayano. Recoiling in horror yet?

Seriously, I'd say that this is what the show is gonna be about. Kazuma will help Ayano to gradually get rid of her current naivete (the "growing up" part) and will cause her to develop more self-restraint. Ayano will change Kazuma in that he will gradually open up to people more, and to overcome his isolated materialistic bitterness (and assist him in his hidden personal agenda). Remove one of either, and you'll have a completely different show.
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Old 2007-05-06, 03:03   Link #460
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
I have alot of respect for you, and for all you've done for the anime community. But alas, I think it's actually you that is a poor judge of character.

It's nothing about testosterone so much, as longing for characters with actual maturity. I'm tired of the angsty teenagers. I want the opposite of the model of character growth you seem to enjoy. I think much of it has to do with my age and maturity level. I cant relate to teenagers anymore(actually I never could to begin with ) So I want mature 20-30 year old characters with pasts that need to be revealed and the wounds of their hearts/minds/ whatever, healed.
lolz...well you do know that 90% of series catered for teenages contain characters that are totally not mature? saying that you want 20-30 yr olds is impossible nowdays...its stuck with teens or nothing ofc there are exceptions but the better half is that most are naive teenagers (some wat like ayano but not to that extreme...) ~ but i have to say that kazuma is pretty mature in his own rights...and hes got the backdrop to prove it (so youll probably love his type of characterization :3)...id say its a good balance between series (kazuma) and "funny" (ayano)...what a perfect couple

and i have to disagree with clare being evil...guys look! she isnt...shes just suffering from the lack of family warmth and thus comes across as coldblooded...and a killing machine O.o
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwArD View Post
Hmm...I'm kinda confused about the whole contractor thing...anyone care to explain again?
well its hasnt been explained much but a contractor is supposidly the head person of the clan gaining a contract of an element spirit to enable him/her to use its powers and thus allowing the following mambers to do the say (though they dont have the contract so they wont have haxx skills) ~ kazuma is different but thats to be revealed...
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