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Old 2007-05-07, 11:43   Link #541
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaerstan01 View Post
the thing is, kazuma and his dad are top notch mages, so putting them in the same league with those "average" or "typical" wind and fire users isn't really am appropriate thing to do.
Exactly! And this is why Kazuma is not a good reference for wind magic's attack potential (And neither is Ryuuya, him being posessed by a demon and all). So far the two investigators said that in general wind magic is not suitable for it. Since they seem to be experts in the field, i am willing to go by their judgment.

As far as the show goes, there is little to suggest that normally wind would be suitable for offense. And we have people, who are supposed to be knowledgeable in the field, stating the opposite. Kazuma / Ryuuya make it work because of their special circumstances. I would view their performance as exception, not the norm.
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Old 2007-05-07, 12:02   Link #542
lightbringer
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Plus the Wind Fang clan was only strong when they were relying on a Youma 300 years ago. As pure wind users, they only did recon work for the Kannagis...
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Old 2007-05-07, 12:20   Link #543
kaerstan01
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good thing we agree in some points i was just only defending/explaining the wind's true potential(even w/o the help of a contract w/ the spirit king) in this anime if fire can evolve, why not wind? and about kazuma and his dad having a fair fight as two of the most powerful spellcasters in the show
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Old 2007-05-07, 12:33   Link #544
Klashikari
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Actually, it would be gorgeous if Kazuma improve his power in such extent he can manipulate lightning ^___^ (that would be the ultimate form of the Air mastery)

again, this is a mere fantasy of a fanboy (since Air evolution to lightning isn't really a widespread convention in Elemental Magic, unlike Water => Ice and Earth => Gravity/Metal, which are almost universally accepted)
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Old 2007-05-07, 12:37   Link #545
Skyfall
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I think it would be quite hard to produce lightning if your abilities are limited to wind manipulation. Of course, he could use the wind to gather a lot of rainclouds (provided there are any in the nearest vicinity) and wait...
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Old 2007-05-07, 12:39   Link #546
kaerstan01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Actually, it would be gorgeous if Kazuma improve his power in such extent he can manipulate lightning ^___^ (that would be the ultimate form of the Air mastery)

again, this is a mere fantasy of a fanboy (since Air evolution to lightning isn't really a widespread convention in Elemental Magic, unlike Water => Ice and Earth => Gravity/Metal, which are almost universally accepted)
haha well, this is an anime, anything is possible and can be done as long as the author/scriptwriter permits it lol but wait, didn't that tornado that he summoned at a down burst level had lightning fragments in it? lol
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Old 2007-05-07, 12:45   Link #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
I think it would be quite hard to produce lightning if your abilities are limited to wind manipulation. Of course, he could use the wind to gather a lot of rainclouds (provided there are any in the nearest vicinity) and wait...
Well, again, this will depend on how elemental magic works in KnS (duh, always the same problem ~~).
In universes where the lightning is the evolution of wind, they are using the physic explanation behind this : being able to control the air allows the spellcaster to control the thin particles in the air.
Thus, with some skills, they can separate positive and negative particles (i will skip the boring details XD), and thus, create lightning.

Of course, clouds are a favourable factor, considering the influence of water particles (well, correct me if i'm wrong, my physics are kinda old XD).

but in "theory", it is possible, so why not in a fantasy world?

meh again, fanboy dream anyway XD (not as rampant and wild as nanoha's riot, but meh)
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Old 2007-05-07, 13:14   Link #548
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haha talking about kazuma "upgrading" into being able to turn his wind power into lightning gave me a thought...what if he were to master all the elements...

*narration voice*
"kazuma...the last air bender" XD

but technically he can produce a tornado with lightning sprouting out of it ~ the theory of particles and friction bla bla :3
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Old 2007-05-07, 13:45   Link #549
lightbringer
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Now we're getting into the fallacies of applying our physics concepts to elemental magic.

Given the existence of Spirit Lords (and while we're at it, why don't we assign them to the cardinal points of a wind rose), and the concept of "elemental spirits", a safe argument can be made for these being to be sentient or semi-sentient. Because we are now dealing with miniscule spirits (which looks like point/billboarded particles due to GONZO's poor animation budget, but might as well be sylphs, salamanders, gnomes, and undines), speculations grounded in "modern" physics start approaching the loony bin asymptotically

Furthermore, I propose the following theory: lightning is a mass marriage ceremony between gnomes and sylphs and requires the active collaboration of a wind user and an earth user.
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Old 2007-05-07, 13:57   Link #550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
haha talking about kazuma "upgrading" into being able to turn his wind power into lightning gave me a thought...what if he were to master all the elements...

*narration voice*
"kazuma...the last air bender" XD
Hahaha, nice! All I know is if he goes super saiyan I might be done with this anime

Man so many posts since I last logged in...and sensei posted!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by klashikari
yeah, Kazuma appears to be a "Kira" (only the "god-like" uberness, don't even compare their character XD), but the balance is rather well kept so far.
I dont really view him as a "Kira" since he doesnt have the whole "I am god, Im gonna change the world" thing about him...I just think he's a bit egocentrically and detest fire users But I see where youd get that from his personality.
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Old 2007-05-07, 14:36   Link #551
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Yeah I could see the Kira bit in terms of him being incredibly strong. He really took it to the enemy once he got going. For the comment about the demon not seeming that strong even in comparison to Ryuuya we have to think that he only won because he was fighting Ayano alone. If Kazuma had stuck around they probably could've finished him quick enough.

Figuring out the rules and limits of powers in the series is always pretty tough. Don't know if Kazuma is going to get any lightning moves, though admittingly that would be pretty cool. I'm sure he can become stronger through the series by simply showing off more contractor moves.
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Old 2007-05-07, 17:47   Link #552
shinigami2086
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This anime is on my top favs for the spring season at the moment. I enjoy the characters a lot also.
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Old 2007-05-07, 20:56   Link #553
usagijen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreSage View Post
It's one of the reasons that got me interested in Kazuma in the first place ...I just love witty characters. But Kazuma is more of a mix between our narcissist and his doppleganger. The best combination .
Kazuma's not just the "best of both worlds" (naru + his twin), he's even more of a badass than Naru (and more kickass =P). like kaerstan said, he also has those mido ban and alucard similarities + kira's drive to be strong (minus the emo-ness ;D) ...and those shimmering blue-eyes and smile of his! >o<

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That aside, I'm sure looking forward to seeing other combat strategies and forms both fire and wind can take up - and I'm also hoping to see other elements that may appear, if they appear at all in this story.
they'll certainly appear later on...
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-05-07, 21:05   Link #554
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Which "Kira" are you guys talking about? I get a sense that some of you are talking about Gundam Seed Kira (hence the emo comment), but that others are talking about Death Note's Kira/Yagami Light (like the "I am god" comments.) I don't really see Kazuma as being like either Kira though. Perhaps he has a certain amount of confidence like Light does, but he's obviously a much kinder person.
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Old 2007-05-07, 21:45   Link #555
PreSage
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Personally, I still see wind as having an offensive potential (and this is not because I'm a Kazuma fangirl by any means). Weaker? Well that's arguable. I mean, if you look naturally at tornadoes and hurricanes (where the wind is the key damage factor), they cause quite a lot of damage - and if that force was intentionally focused on an object it could certainly be lethal. Speaking of which, wind has a lot of potential force and where there is force there is an offensive power.

Also, since the element air surrounds us all, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that wind can actually manipulate all other elements? If you cause fast moving air, fire will not light well because you're actually creating a vacuum. Winds manipulate water surfaces in the form of waves. Now ice and earth, being solids, may be the only elements resistant to wind - within a short time period that is...over time, wind does erode both. So I'd say, the wind element should not be taken so lightly. Within skillful and intelligent hands, it's a pretty powerful and tricksy power.

I'm also wondering but could it be possible that the Wind Clan received their wind power not from an ancestral Wind Contractor but from that youma? Therefore, their strengths are much weaker than had their original source been from a Wind Spirit King via a Contractor like with the Fire Clan.

EDIT: Kaze no Stigma seems to be the unexpected underdog this season (regarding discussions at least). I'm surprised that the DtB thread isn't as active.
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Last edited by PreSage; 2007-05-07 at 21:59. Reason: Afterthought...
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Old 2007-05-07, 22:32   Link #556
lightbringer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreSage View Post
EDIT: Kaze no Stigma seems to be the unexpected underdog this season (regarding discussions at least). I'm surprised that the DtB thread isn't as active.
Probably due to the lackluster start. Honestly, I didn't care about this show at all after episode 1, but fell in love with it after episode 2. After the first it was way down on my list, near Tokyo Majin and Shining Tears. Now it's on top, together with DtB, sola, and RxJ. The production values are nothing to write home about, the OP song and first ED song are mediocre, but there are many good things about it after all (Kazuma, KxA, dialogue, plot). Now that things are picking up and word has spread that this series is worth watching, discussion has naturally increased
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Old 2007-05-07, 22:43   Link #557
usagijen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zalem View Post
Which "Kira" are you guys talking about? I get a sense that some of you are talking about Gundam Seed Kira (hence the emo comment), but that others are talking about Death Note's Kira/Yagami Light (like the "I am god" comments.) I don't really see Kazuma as being like either Kira though. Perhaps he has a certain amount of confidence like Light does, but he's obviously a much kinder person.
I think it's obvious that I was talking about Kira of GSeed... and the similarity I see in both of them is that aspect of...

Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by PreSage View Post
Also, since the element air surrounds us all, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that wind can actually manipulate all other elements? If you cause fast moving air, fire will not light well because you're actually creating a vacuum. Winds manipulate water surfaces in the form of waves. Now ice and earth, being solids, may be the only elements resistant to wind - within a short time period that is...over time, wind does erode both. So I'd say, the wind element should not be taken so lightly. Within skillful and intelligent hands, it's a pretty powerful and tricksy power.

I'm also wondering but could it be possible that the Wind Clan received their wind power not from an ancestral Wind Contractor but from that youma? Therefore, their strengths are much weaker than had their original source been from a Wind Spirit King via a Contractor like with the Fire Clan.

EDIT: Kaze no Stigma seems to be the unexpected underdog this season (regarding discussions at least). I'm surprised that the DtB thread isn't as active.
It's actually said that the Wind Contractor is someone to whom the Wind Spirit has "bestowed authority to utilize / control the entire atmosphere" (something like that)... so mentioning about taking control of the "entire atmosphere" shows just how much of a potential this has (encompassing simply the "wind" elements itself...)

And with regards to the Wind Fang clan, it's either that or they got it from other youmas (which they seem to have the ability to take control of)... o_O Not quite sure... I haven't read about the source of their Wind Abilities in the novel, but I'm also thinking it could be some 'learned' skill... like, through the years they've mastered the techniques to use the wind as their weapon
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Old 2007-05-07, 22:44   Link #558
Tiamat's Disciple
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I actually like the OP/ED of this series. more so than alot of other shows this season.

The Fuuga clan were the ones who got their power from the Youma. However im guessing the Youma Kazuma and Ayano faced was weakened since it had just been released. The clan head (i'll remember his name eventually) said they were only just able to win after they sealed away the source of their power, And they were already contracted then, so im guessing that while it probably wasnt equal to a wind lords contract, it was almost as good as. Certainly enough to put up a strong fight and only just loose.

I mean it took everything Ayano threw at him, including the strongest flame she had, and suffered only minor damage and the loss of a hand enraiha lopped off.

If Kazuma hadnt been there, well lets just say the Kannagi's would be heir less (pun intended )
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Old 2007-05-07, 22:47   Link #559
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All the elements I think can have offensive potential it really just depends on the skill of the user, and how they are able to make use of it. If the guy can only blow a light wind at someone well that's not very dangerous, same if a fire user can only throw an ember at you. Like PreSage demonstrated there are many ways wind can do damage. Of course in a fight your not going to do well if your attack takes a really long time.

You've got solid danger no matter how you look at it. Fire obviously burns which is a bad thing, add in that the smoke that can force you to suffocate. Water would clearly have the issue of drowning, if you can't swim it's not a good thing, good stream to the mouth you get water in the lungs its all bad. Earth probably does a good job at crushing people. Maybe I didn't have to look at all the elements but I got started and thus you got to the end of that.

Kaze no Stigma does seem to be a bit of an underdog it that respect. It took a few episodes to really get going, but now its going well.

The OP/ED really are a strength of this series. Liked the couple different endings, though I like the second one more. The youma certainly was tough in that it took two of them to finish it. One would have just gotten beat quickly, and the other wouldn't be able to use his big guns since they took time to prepare.

And yeah lets hope Kazuma doesn't come close to comparisons between him and Kira from Death Note. After all I'm liking Kazuma as a character.
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Old 2007-05-07, 22:55   Link #560
usagijen
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KnS is indeed such an underdog... many people didn't get to like it from simply watching the first episodes (it's either because they couldn't stand Ayano and dropped watching because of her, or they've already drawn conclusions that this is going to be yet another stereotype of what they already know, and such...)

but the many people who have seen through its flaws has certainly found this anime to be one of the best this season (I mean, just look at the heated discussions in this thread XD)
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