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Old 2006-11-30, 17:01   Link #41
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
This means that only two permutations of element usage are possible, two in a row or skipping over one in the sequence. There are approximately an equal number of both occuring, so far as I can tell:

Two in a row: Asuma(Fire, Wind); Yamato/First Hokage(Earth, Water)

Skipping one: Sasuke(Fire, Lightning); Haku(Wind, Water); Sarutobi(Fire, Earth)
Not exactly that simple. There are also the yin and yang chakra categories. Whether or not these can be considered elements or not isn't exactly clear. Neither is it clear whether or not they can be used along with nature elements. But still, chakra usage is more complicated than just the five nature elements.
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Old 2006-11-30, 17:06   Link #42
Suna no tate
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Something is not right here. How is kakuzu able to manipulate his arm underground? Shadow bind jutsu is still in effect. You can't move anything (unless if you're just phenomenally strong somehow). Nothing. If I have 8 arms and 16 legs and shika uses his shadow bind, or his new "shadow stitch" jutsu, I can't move any of my arms or legs even if they're underground or in water or under clothing. So I don't really see how kakuzu escaped...

I'm also bothered that Ino so far hasn't done anything. I figured he'd use her as soon as someone is bound for further immobilization. Her technique is even more useful than his when it comes to tying up opponents. it just seems the logical thing to do and it is out of character for shikamaru to not have used her already.

my final issue is that shika makes hidan attack kakuzu with his scythe. Why? That is in no way what I would have done, especially since shika knows that kakuzu is made of threads...

I also think the elemental weakness thing is stupid. I mean come on... wind is strong against lightning? WTF? Lightning is strong against earth? They don't even have it right! And how does it come into play when you use techniques that mix elements? I mean yamato's wood release skills mix earth and water. Is wood strong against fire? WTF mates? WTF? And how useful is that knowledge anyway? Is it really useful? I mean we've been through a lot of crazy fights and just now elemental weakness comes up? You'd think that if it was all that important kakashi might have said something about it to sasuke, or asuma to naruto. I mean, I personally think it was something that was just recently made up and not well thought out...
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Old 2006-11-30, 17:10   Link #43
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
my final issue is that shika makes hidan attack kakuzu with his scythe. Why? That is in no way what I would have done, especially since shika knows that kakuzu is made of threads...
Who knows? Maybe Shika was plainig to do the Curse on Kakuuzu.


And for the shadow bind, I could guess that if the Limb is separated from the body, then is not bound by the Kage Mane.
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Old 2006-11-30, 17:17   Link #44
0TaKu0
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Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
Nice chapter overall, though I think Kishimoto could start to let Naruto seem at least a bit smarter after all this time. The way he looked, I thought he was at the very limit of his abstract thinking capabilities. Kishimoto could have let Naruto make some more of those conclusions instead of getting everything explained to. Concernig the rock-paper-scissor principle, I'm looking forward to the upcoming "Nen" battles.
Hmm, well this is how I feel. I had a small epiphany of Naruto's stupidity and I realized its not that Naruto is stupid, his character is made that way to provided explanations for people who don’t understand and need a farther/better explanation. Remember this is a Shounen Manga when Naruto asks "How come?" (How come wind is weaker then fire and water is stronger then fire) Is it because Naruto is stupid? Yes, but his character is like this because this provides the viewer's who don’t know the answer, AN answer and does not make THEM feel stupid, makes Naruto look stupid.

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Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
So, Wind enhances Fire. Do I smell a "combined power double whopper Naruto&Sasuke final ultimate with sugar on top beat the uber bad guy no jutsu"?
That sounds awsome, but it could also be. "Naruto: The only power that can save a fire from dying ad give it even more power is wind." >_> This says to me Sasuke will get stronger by batteling Naruto, good! Means the manga wont be ending any time soon and Naruto will keep coming up with more shit possibly even find out his second element is water.

"Your wind-element jutsu will lose against Sasuke's fire-element jutsu. The only way to beat fire is water." I think this foreshadows that Naruto's 2nd element might be water (assuming he has one) I say this because a while back when the whole element stuff was reviled I mentioned the only element left for Naruto is really Water, due to all the others being taken by other Konoha Ninja and becoming something special to them and perhaps their clan EX: Sasuke/Uchiha fire.

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
so amazed how Kakuzu can still talk or even stand after getting raikiri through he heart -_______-||| and again he might be an immortal, woopdy doo
I honestly dont think Kakuzu was struck in the heart, or that he will die, did you consider this? I typed this in the 332 discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0TaKu0 View Post
Considering his body part's are kind of tied together by string's, I wouldn’t be surprised if he can move them around on the Inside as well. In any case, no way Kakauzu will die that quick, because when it comes to Naruto its always a "I show you mine, you show me yours we both surprise each other" kind of deal. Next (in 334 obviously 333 is Kakashi's stage) it's Kakashi's turn to be impressed, by something that Kakuzu does.
The other thing that makes me think Kakuzu is not dead is "Text: He sees through everything...he breaks through everything! Kakashi displays his true abilities once again!" If Kakuzu is dead, kakashi cant really show off because Hidan is a lame ass ^_^.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
But Water > Fire was pretty obvious....
3rd Hokage: Katon Karyuu Endan!!
2nd Hokage: Suiton Sujin Heki! (and Sandaimes attack was useless instantly)
True, but I dont think this is correct cause remember "So if you countered Sasuke's fire jutsu with a wind jutsu of the same strength you'd only make the fire stronger" In other words if Naruto's new jutsu over power's sasuke's fire jutsu the wind weakness does not apply.

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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Interesting Chapter.
Kakkuzu: I actually Think, unlike my partner.

Hidan pissed of: What the heck was that “unlike my partner” BS?

Hilarious
Totally Hidan's foul mouth humor is what I love about the guy, he has the look for it as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamme View Post
*correction*
Actually, it was Kakuzu's arm that lifted the blade up, not the shadow.
Was it? The first Chakra Blade was the one holding Hidan because you can see another shadow connected to the head because that was after Shikamaru connected his shadow to Hidan then used his shadow tentacle (the thing he used during the first time they went up against Hidan and Kakuzu) to remove the Chakra Blade. At least that’s what it seemed like to me, the 2nd one was definitely Kakuzu's hand. I could be wrong however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viceroy View Post
not sure it wasnt planned afterall it would seem kinda retarded for shika to come out and say" ok kakashi your turn to strike" seems a bit retarded. afterall i think the original intent or plan this whole time was to find out what all kakuzu was capable of doing. once they found out for sure that he hardens to steel and becomes immune to physical attacks that was kakashis queue to step in finally.
I think what Kakashi did was planned, remember Kakashi is an ANBU member, he’s an assassin. My point is Shikamaru didn’t have to tell Kakashi "Now Kakashi" or "Your turn Kakashi". All Shikamaru had to do was tell Kakashi ahead of time "When you see a opening, do your job. We are going for Kakuzu (Mr.Fix It, who’s always fixing Hidan) first". Something like that ^_^.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
Something is not right here. How is kakuzu able to manipulate his arm underground? Shadow bind jutsu is still in effect. You can't move anything (unless if you're just phenomenally strong somehow). Nothing. If I have 8 arms and 16 legs and shika uses his shadow bind, or his new "shadow stitch" jutsu, I can't move any of my arms or legs even if they're underground or in water or under clothing. So I don't really see how kakuzu escaped...
Your wrong, I was troubled by this as well but look. Kakazu didn’t find out how to break from Kage Mane because the thought of that pissed me off, he let one of his arm's go underground right after the first pair of tag's exploded, so I'm glad that you cant beat the Kage Mane. Look back carefully Shikamaru explains it, "So he let one of his arm's go underground in the midst of the smoke from the first pair of explosive tags" those are not the exact words, but similar. So Kakuzu sent one of his arm's underground even before he got hit with Kage Mane, he has experience from the last time he faught Shikamaru.

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Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
I'm also bothered that Ino so far hasn't done anything. I figured he'd use her as soon as someone is bound for further immobilization. Her technique is even more useful than his when it comes to tying up opponents. it just seems the logical thing to do and it is out of character for shikamaru to not have used her already
Its probably because her roll in Shikamaru's plan has not been activated yet (Chouji didn't move an inch till Shikamaru said so), OR she's Mind transfer, she's probably the "Safety play".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
my final issue is that shika makes hidan attack kakuzu with his scythe. Why? That is in no way what I would have done, especially since shika knows that kakuzu is made of threads...
What else did Shikamaru had to use? the Scythe had the longest reach, and I think his plan was to get Kakuzu by the tree so Chouji could own his ass, he was only using Hidan because he knew Kakuzu couldn’t "fight" back in a way, and if he did he would be hitting his own partner.
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Old 2006-11-30, 17:58   Link #45
Arti
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Kakashi is a badass.
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Old 2006-11-30, 18:37   Link #46
Syaoran
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I added the complete summary now. Sorry for leaving it half done for so long. I got very bad news and returned home urgently... I'll see if I can find the desire to make one. Naruto gave me a way to change my mind this evening.

Very good chapter, although I cannot say I enjoyed it today the way I usually do. Kakashi is really living up to my expectations, probably growing towards the legendary Konoha's White Fang level.
Nice job done by Naruto. Cannot wait to see the completed jutsu.

Don't you think he has a special way of thinking about Sasuke ? I mean... it sounds like he's prepared to do something that could be harmful to himself, just to save him.
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Old 2006-11-30, 18:37   Link #47
Missilebuster
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aight i am decently sure that kakuzu is dead, it has a little not at the end about him falling. Although when he was pierced i didnt see much blood....
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Old 2006-11-30, 18:47   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0TaKu0 View Post
I honestly dont think Kakuzu was struck in the heart, or that he will die, did you consider this? I typed this in the 332 discussion.
Spoiler:



Quote:
Originally Posted by 0TaKu0
"Your wind-element jutsu will lose against Sasuke's fire-element jutsu. The only way to beat fire is water." I think this foreshadows that Naruto's 2nd element might be water (assuming he has one) I say this because a while back when the whole element stuff was reviled I mentioned the only element left for Naruto is really Water, due to all the others being taken by other Konoha Ninja and becoming something special to them and perhaps their clan EX: Sasuke/Uchiha fire.
i don't think he plans on finding his "other" element, and i highly doubt it would be water. it has to be the same element that Yondaime has.
Also if you missed this part, Naruto said something like this " The only thing that can save a fire from dying and give it even more power is wind" meaning that he is just sticking with his wind element.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0TaKu0
Was it? The first Chakra Blade was the one holding Hidan because you can see another shadow connected to the head because that was after Shikamaru connected his shadow to Hidan then used his shadow tentacle (the thing he used during the first time they went up against Hidan and Kakuzu) to remove the Chakra Blade. At least that’s what it seemed like to me, the 2nd one was definitely Kakuzu's hand. I could be wrong however.
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Old 2006-11-30, 18:59   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Spoiler:





i don't think he plans on finding his "other" element, and i highly doubt it would be water. it has to be the same element that Yondaime has.
Also if you missed this part, Naruto said something like this " The only thing that can save a fire from dying and give it even more power is wind" meaning that he is just sticking with his wind element.

Never know in the Narutoverse... Just look into the Hokuto no Ken series, forgot the name of that blond dude but his internal anatomy was all reversed (ie: heart was on the right side).
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Old 2006-11-30, 19:17   Link #50
kxnaruto
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Does this mean that Suske's Chidori is more of an ultimate jutsu than Naruto's Rasengan? Lets assume for a second that these two techniques balance each other (Naruto and Suske blown away when they hit each other with them). Given that lighting is weak against Wind, Suske must have been putting more power into the Chidori than Naruto into the Rasengen for them to balance. Or Maybe Chidori is as far as it gets in lighting jutsus. It makes sense since Suske can perform 2 Chidros (pre-timeskip) and Naruto many Rasengans.
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Old 2006-11-30, 19:19   Link #51
0TaKu0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Spoiler:
Wow, ok you didn’t read the rest, you just read that one line. It's pretty obvious he was struck where his heart belongs... but if you read the rest of it, read the quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0TaKu0 View Post
Considering his body part's are kind of tied together by string's, I wouldn’t be surprised if he can move them around on the Inside as well. In any case, no way Kakauzu will die that quick, because when it comes to Naruto its always a "I show you mine, you show me yours we both surprise each other" kind of deal. Next (in 334 obviously 333 is Kakashi's stage) it's Kakashi's turn to be impressed, by something that Kakuzu does.

The other thing that makes me think Kakuzu is not dead is "Text: He sees through everything...he breaks through everything! Kakashi displays his true abilities once again!" If Kakuzu is dead, kakashi cant really show off because Hidan is a lame ass ^_^.
Meaning, maybe Kakuzu can move around his internal organ's so he does not take a critical hit. Like moving his heart all the way down to his leg. Of course I know where the human heart is, don’t be silly I just meant just because Kakuzu got hit on the left side of his chest does not mean it hit his heart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
i don't think he plans on finding his "other" element, and i highly doubt it would be water. it has to be the same element that Yondaime has.
Sure, its a possibility that Naruto will only have one element allowing him to only concentrate on that and make it stronger, maybe even so strong that it will over power Sasuke's fire element jutsu. "So if you countered Sasuke's fire jutsu with a wind jutsu of the same strength you'd only make the fire stronger" In other words if Naruto's new jutsu over power's sasuke's fire jutsu the wind weakness does not apply.

No one said, Naruto's element HAS to be what Yondaime had, that’s what you want it to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Also if you missed this part, Naruto said something like this " The only thing that can save a fire from dying and give it even more power is wind" meaning that he is just sticking with his wind element.
No, I didn’t miss it, the "only thing that can save fire" part I did comment on it, look at quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0TaKu0 View Post
"Naruto: The only power that can save a fire from dying and give it even more power is wind." >_> This says to me Sasuke will get stronger by batteling Naruto, good! Means the manga wont be ending any time soon and Naruto will keep coming up with more shit possibly even find out his second element is water.
Of course it could also mean, sometime in the future Naruto and Sasuke will fight side by side, and they will deliver some kind of combined Jutsu to who ever it maybe, Oro, Itachi w/e.

As for the water thing element thing, I was just saying it might be a possibility,

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0TaKu0 View Post
"Your wind-element jutsu will lose against Sasuke's fire-element jutsu.The only way to beat fire is water. " I think this foreshadows that Naruto's 2nd element might be water (assuming he has one)
The only reason I even say water is because IF in the future it show's that Naruto has a second element its a good chance it will be water, because in Narutoverse things are sort of exclusive to people that’s what makes them special, Ex: Fire Sasuke/Uchiha, Lightning: Kakashi, Earth: Yamato, so far I don’t see anyone who has taken water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Spoiler:
I know the SECOND chakra blade was taken off by Kakuzu's hand which I mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0TaKu0 View Post
Was it? The first Chakra Blade was the one holding Hidan because you can see another shadow connected to the head because that was after Shikamaru connected his shadow to Hidan then used his shadow tentacle (the thing he used during the first time they went up against Hidan and Kakuzu) to remove the Chakra Blade. At least that’s what it seemed like to me, the 2nd one was definitely Kakuzu's hand. I could be wrong however.
I was speaking of the first one there was two, one was holding down Kakuzu other was holding down Hidan. Look at this pic,

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-11-30, 19:35   Link #52
Mr. Johnny 5
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I'd be very happy if Kakashi eventually (maybe within 5 years) receives a special title...like the Sannin..and also be respected on the same lvl...like the White Fang was...

The 4th was probably aswell on the same lvl but not in terms of respect...(he wasnt that known...by face atleast...)
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Old 2006-11-30, 19:45   Link #53
Justice Knight
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wat happen to kakashi's right eye, anti-itachi FTW?
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Old 2006-11-30, 19:56   Link #54
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The ending is pretty good as Kakashi owning Kakuzu so easily. Kakashi was indeed freakin awesome.
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Old 2006-11-30, 20:16   Link #55
rasedori
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have u guys noticed that kakuzu's face isnt dark anymore
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Old 2006-11-30, 20:35   Link #56
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So looks like Naruto can never beat sasuke.
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Old 2006-11-30, 20:44   Link #57
Zu Ra
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Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
I also think the elemental weakness thing is stupid. I mean come on... wind is strong against lightning? WTF? Lightning is strong against earth? They don't even have it right! And how does it come into play when you use techniques that mix elements? I mean yamato's wood release skills mix earth and water. Is wood strong against fire? WTF mates? WTF? And how useful is that knowledge anyway? Is it really useful?

Priceless Only logical explaination .. Kishi was like really really bad in Science
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Old 2006-11-30, 20:56   Link #58
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this is by far the best chapter in many chapters! incredible! I knew kakshi was hiding to find out kakuzus sharingan. Oh and narutos jutsu...incredible. I can't believe the level he is at! He created that huge crater and even yamato an s-ranked jounin/anbu was amazed. this is incredible. Shikamaru had his plan broken however with kakashi in their everything went smooth. What an incredibly good chapter this is the action we've all been waiting for. RAKIRI RIGHT IN THE SMACKER!
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Old 2006-11-30, 21:00   Link #59
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Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
I'm also bothered that Ino so far hasn't done anything. I figured he'd use her as soon as someone is bound for further immobilization. Her technique is even more useful than his when it comes to tying up opponents. it just seems the logical thing to do and it is out of character for shikamaru to not have used her already.
I don't think we know much of Ino's other jutsus that could be useful. If she takes over another body, she's completely vulnerable. Add to that, whatever damage the body she takes over has, she also takes that damage. It would just be a waste of the team's resources.
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Old 2006-11-30, 21:02   Link #60
IVIavrick
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Originally Posted by kxnaruto View Post
Does this mean that Suske's Chidori is more of an ultimate jutsu than Naruto's Rasengan? Lets assume for a second that these two techniques balance each other (Naruto and Suske blown away when they hit each other with them). Given that lighting is weak against Wind, Suske must have been putting more power into the Chidori than Naruto into the Rasengen for them to balance. Or Maybe Chidori is as far as it gets in lighting jutsus. It makes sense since Suske can perform 2 Chidros (pre-timeskip) and Naruto many Rasengans.
I believe you are getting confused about something..

Rasengan is NOT a wind-jutsu. This is the whole reason Naruto is going through this wind training; in order to apply wind to Rasengan. So it would be wrong to say that "Given that lighting is weak against Wind, Suske must have been putting more power into the Chidori than Naruto into the Rasengen..."
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