AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Naruto

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2006-12-04, 14:42   Link #61
Dauthi
Searching for the Cure
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
Though Nidaime created the actual jutsu out of nowhere, right at the spot, unlike Kisame who first had to create a water source to be able to use it for jutsu later on.


That lake was created by him, in the middle of a desert.
If it is true he used a jutsu to create a lake, thats a huge difference. Using a jutsu to gather the surrounding water, is not that spectacular. Like you say, creating a jutsu from no body of water on the spot is spectacular.

Since the mist utilize surrounding water to enhance their techniques, of course they would have jutsu that gathers water for them to use.
__________________
Unlocking the Sound 5 is so unbelievably annoying.

Dauthi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 14:43   Link #62
0TaKu0
Tesseract Enigma
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sunset Park Neighborhood, Brooklyn, Newyork.
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to 0TaKu0 Send a message via MSN to 0TaKu0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi View Post
Ill have to look at it again, it's been awhile (if you have a chapter # that would be helpful). I would assume though that the surrounding terrain had water (even in soil), while a rooftop has absolutely none.

The second was known for his water jutsu, he was a hokage, thus i would think his abilities excede Kisame's.
Chapter 256, I can post the scans if you like. The place looks pretty dry to me (sure there could have been an underground spring), the water came out of his mouth.
__________________
0TaKu0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 14:45   Link #63
Rachy
Disabled By Request
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: sasuke's lap
Ooo i thought they fought on a lake to begin with. Ty for clearing that up.
Rachy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 14:46   Link #64
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0TaKu0 View Post
Chapter 256, I can post the scans if you like. The place looks pretty dry to me, the water came out of his mouth.
Exactly, there were No Water in the Surroindings, Remeber that not only Kisame appear from The Ground wiht his sword, but Pakkun could detect His scent before Neeji could detect him.

and The Water came from Kisames Body, Given Kisames Huge Chakra capaccity and the fact there was no water, that Lake was not made from Surroinding Water, but From Kisames Chakra.
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 14:46   Link #65
Dauthi
Searching for the Cure
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0TaKu0 View Post
Chapter 256, I can post the scans if you like. The place looks pretty dry to me (sure there could have been an underground spring), the water came out of his mouth.
Ah i probably do need scans, from his mouth? Must be a specialized technique from being a wierd fish guy....
I can imagine a mist ninja would be a lot more powerful if they could spit out massive amounts of water they need for jutsu.
__________________
Unlocking the Sound 5 is so unbelievably annoying.

Dauthi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 14:53   Link #66
Xrayz0r
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
It only makes sense, since suiton manipulation is supposed to enable you to convert chakra to water. It really isn't that spectacular as Kisame just spit it out of his mouth, and most katon jutsu work the same way.

Nidaime unlike Kisame actually created a water jutsu right out of the nowhere, absolutely nowhere. Kisame makes up for not being able to do this by creating a huge lake to use as a source for suiton jutsu to use later on, which Nidaime doesn't need.
Xrayz0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 14:57   Link #67
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
It only makes sense, since suiton manipulation is supposed to enable you to convert chakra to water. It really isn't that spectacular as Kisame just spit it out of his mouth, and most katon jutsu work the same way.

Nidaime unlike Kisame actually created a water jutsu right out of the nowhere. Kisame makes up for not being able to do this by creating a huge lake to use as a source for suiton jutsu to use later on, which Nidaime doesn't need.
Ermm. When we all are talking abaout a Jutsu as strong as Nindaime, we are talking abaout the one that Created the Lake, and not the Water Clones or water Prison Jutsus.

Gven there were no Water at hand, the Water was created from Elemental Alteration. In other words, Kisame did the same as Nindaime.
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:02   Link #68
Xrayz0r
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Ermm. When we all are talking abaout a Jutsu as strong as Nindaime, we are talking abaout the one that Created the Lake, and not the Water Clones or water Prison Jutsus.

Gven there were no Water at hand, the Water was created from Elemental Alteration. In other words, Kisame did the same as Nindaime.
We see people blowing fire from their mouths.


We don't see people creating fire like out of nowhere at a spot far away from their body.
Xrayz0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:02   Link #69
0TaKu0
Tesseract Enigma
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sunset Park Neighborhood, Brooklyn, Newyork.
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to 0TaKu0 Send a message via MSN to 0TaKu0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauthi View Post
Ah i probably do need scans, from his mouth? Must be a specialized technique from being a wierd fish guy....
I can imagine a mist ninja would be a lot more powerful if they could spit out massive amounts of water they need for jutsu.
Ok, I patched together a couple of pages and some from the previous chapter so you can get a good look at the land as well. Oh yes like Rurik mentioned he did come out of the ground, in fact he had the image of a "Shark" because his sword (Samehada) was sticking out of the ground which resembled a Shark's fin as he tunneled through the ground behind them, before exploding out. (Like a shark jumps out of the water)

Spoiler:
__________________
0TaKu0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:04   Link #70
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
We see people blowing fire from their mouths.


We don't see people creating fire like out of nowhere at a spot far away from their body.
So? this still does not take away that Kisame Created a lot of water out of nowhwere, as the same as Nindaime, which was the point to beggin wiht.
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:07   Link #71
Xrayz0r
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
So? this still does not take away that Kisame Created a lot of water out of nowhwere, as the same as Nindaime, which was the point to beggin wiht.
Never mind.

As I recall, Nidaime created the jutsu out of nowhere in the anime, while in the manga he did exactly the same Kisame did (I just checked).


Though, if it indeed were true, then there's no such thing as "which was the point to begin with" because then we would've had two extremely different cases. You don't compare creating something out of nowhere to spitting it out, meaning chakra was controlled within the body and simply converted to water. Doesn't seem such a difficult task for a Suiton user.
Xrayz0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:09   Link #72
Suna no tate
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Around chapter 256, kisame makes a lake in the middle of nowhere. Thats also where you'll find gai's flaming pea cock and all that good stuff.

Actually so far, i'm sure suitons are different from other jutsus in that you don't convert chakra into water (as you would with fire or lightning). Instead you just use chakra to manipulate it. This is sort of the limit to it. While they are very powerful (huge waves, huge water dragons,) since they are physical things with mass, you kinda need water around to manipulate. So far whenever kakashi does a water jutsu he has to be around water and kakashi is a very very high level jounin. I think he'd set the bar for jounin level mastery of water jutsu. Seems when you get past the water restriction you are now approaching total mastery of the jutsus. (I bet at that level you're really just pulling out moisture from the air still...). Nonetheless its absolutely amazing what kisame did. I think it rivals gaara's abilities in that he created an absolutely immense volume of sand (literally 2 football fields deep) from just the amount in that gourd. (that'd be an interesting fight. all that water gets absorbed by the sand. who would win?! gaara of course!)

Anyway, I have an interesting question. If kisame does his water clone jutsu, are the duplicated swords still sentient?

Also, I'm pretty sure in the itachi clone encounter naruto did a one handed rasengan that hit itachi (but it turned out to be a genjutsu that made naruto attack sakura in reality). But it was one handed! I'm sure!
__________________
Suna no tate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:09   Link #73
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
Never mind.

As I recall, Nidaime created the jutsu out of nowhere in the anime, while in the manga he did exactly the same Kisame did.
hmmm...Yeah you are right ( I was not even recalling NIndaime Jutsu...)...ohh well...the fun had to end sometime
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:21   Link #74
Xrayz0r
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
Also, I'm pretty sure in the itachi clone encounter naruto did a one handed rasengan that hit itachi (but it turned out to be a genjutsu that made naruto attack sakura in reality). But it was one handed! I'm sure!
The jutsu is self sustaining, so he can attack with it one handed.

It doesn't mean that he didn't need a clone to actually form it.
Xrayz0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:23   Link #75
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
The jutsu is self sustaining, so he can attack with it one handed.

It doesn't mean that he didn't need a clone to actually form it.
Or his two hands, which could had been the case against Itachi Clone.
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:24   Link #76
Suna no tate
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
And yes the 2nd did use a water jutsu without water around. Look below.
Spoiler:


So does naruto need a bunshin to do rasengan now or doesn't he? Because I believe he doesn't since I think I saw him do it one handed against itachi... And you gotta love those ANBU guys... bloody useless at times...
__________________
Suna no tate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:29   Link #77
0TaKu0
Tesseract Enigma
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sunset Park Neighborhood, Brooklyn, Newyork.
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to 0TaKu0 Send a message via MSN to 0TaKu0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
Also, I'm pretty sure in the itachi clone encounter naruto did a one handed rasengan that hit itachi (but it turned out to be a genjutsu that made naruto attack sakura in reality). But it was one handed! I'm sure!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
So does naruto need a bunshin to do rasengan now or doesn't he? Because I believe he doesn't since I think I saw him do it one handed against itachi... And you gotta love those ANBU guys... bloody useless at times...

No, its still uses a bunshin, the only thing Naruto has been given is "Off Screen Speed" when it comes to his bunshin's. What I mean is, a while back me and sabakyu had a discussion about how Itachi and Sasuke seem to have "Off Screen Speed" meaning in one cell / frame they are in one place, and then next cell / frame they are in another spot.

Naruto is allot better and faster with the way he uses the Kage Bunshin now, he is so nice that it's off screen, we see this during the Kakashi's bell test #2 (after time skip), did you even see when he created that Kage Bunshin, or where it came from? I know I didn’t, it was off screen. Read the chapter again if you want to know what I mean.
__________________
0TaKu0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:31   Link #78
Xrayz0r
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
And yes the 2nd did use a water jutsu without water around. Look below.
Didn't everyone already know that like 3 years ago?

Quote:
So does naruto need a bunshin to do rasengan now or doesn't he? Because I believe he doesn't since I think I saw him do it one handed against itachi... And you gotta love those ANBU guys... bloody useless at times...
Naruto's way of forming Rasengan is having a clone focusing on form manipulation while the original does nothing but supply chakra. That seems to be his own personal way of forming Rasengan and he can't do it any way else and others can't do it the way he does.
Xrayz0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:47   Link #79
Mr. Johnny 5
Konoha's ANBU
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 28
Yeah i thought i saw something different...the anime screwed up...

In the anime Orochimaru wasnt behind the hokages...he was a spectator..
But here in the manga the 3rd attacked all three of them...how annoying..
__________________
Mr. Johnny 5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-12-04, 15:48   Link #80
Dauthi
Searching for the Cure
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington
I still conjecture that he tapped into a water source underground or nearby. Why? Because Nidaime also brought water forth from his mouth on top of a roof, and it was exclaimed this was amazing even for a hokage specializing in water because there is absolutely no water around.

It will be easier if i lay down an example for my thought. Let me take Katon jutsu, you create fire from nothing. When Sasuke first starts he does a decent sized katon, which grows as he gets better. So you could say he is improving, thus able to make a more destructive Katon.

If you apply this to a suiton, if both Kisame and Nidaime had no water to work with, Kisame's jutsu was by far more impressive.
__________________
Unlocking the Sound 5 is so unbelievably annoying.


Last edited by Dauthi; 2006-12-04 at 16:21.
Dauthi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.