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Old 2009-09-26, 18:50   Link #2961
Opace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleutao View Post
A lot of people seem to forget that this manga is still listed as a parody. Given what Hata usually does, I'm sure that once we get back into a more familiar mood after this arc then it'll go right back to avoiding and subverting every trope he can find. Simply put, in this manga I highly doubt First Girl Wins is in effect, especially as when that usually happens there's UST (unresolved sexual tension) throughout the entire story before they inevitably get together. So far, this has only been seen in Hinagiku, sort of Maria (since we don't really know how she feels and it's been a while since we've seen much of her) and Athena (which is a little different as they actually were in a relationship). Still, the future of this manga can take us anywhere and I think that Hata is perfectly willing to do almost anything to poor Hayate.
I disagree. Although there is a chance Hayate might up with the other Heroines, Nagi will still be the "First Girl Wins", as you described it. There were many signs to vouch for this in the much earlier chapters and I doubt Hata is shallow enough to be goaded from his earlier plans and whatnot to give the fans what they want. I'd say this manga, if let to run its full course, would be under half-way at the moment (maybe not even near half-way). Yes, that does give the heroines to push for Hayate more, it also gives Hayate a chance to stop and think seriously about his love life. This is shown when Hayate states his feelings for Athena seriously in front of Hinagiku.

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As for Athena, I mentioned before that she's what's called a New Old Flame, a character brought into the middle of a story that is an ex-girlfriend of boyfriend that was usually never mentioned until they are introduced. The problem is that they can often be a polarizing character, either you like them because of the chemistry they have with their ex or you hate them because they come out of nowhere and ruin things for the love interest you like. So some people just don't like Athena, but others really do for their own reasons, there's no point in arguing about it now.
Well said.

Quote:
Still, we do have a really varied cast of girls. Nagi is a complete tsundere, Maria is a borderline yamato nadeshiko, Ayumu plays the unlucky childhood friend, Athena is actually listed as a yandere, and Hinagiku is a kuudere (basically a tsundere with a sense of self-control as she prefers really intimidating glares instead of hitting, and she's fully aware of how unnerving it can be). And all of that is just the main female characters! Now if we just had a few more male characters their might be pairings that didn't include Hayate and possibly Wataru.
Whilst I do agree Nagi is a tsundere, she is much less so than the earlier chapters; her behaviour has been quite shaped by Hayate as time passes. Instead of actually borderlining Maria as "Yamato Nadeshiko", I would say she is just based around it with flaws inserted to make it much more interesting for us (which doesn't really make it a Yamato Nadeshiko but..). Athena is indeed a Yandere, but not in the brutal murder fashion many people believe yandere to be. Never heard of a kuudere to be honest. Wataru is still yet to be debated on his Romance life. Right now, it's pushing for him to be with Saki at the end, but Sakuya and Isumi is still in there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post
Good nuff to know that it's legit. So, it's from ~ch.190-2xx~, and that's Hayate's bro with Nagi's mom.

Don't tell me it's someone's imagination, or something similar?


If not, then was it already speculated that Hayate and Nagi are related? Well, I did say that once, a while back and all.... eh, whatever..

So that basically cancels out a Nagi end, if of course it's a flashback, and not just something made up. But, even though if it's real, does Hayate really have a brother? What if he's just some total stranger that helps people to redeem himself for whatever he did / or the loss of Yukariko. No wait... Nagi's mom died when Nagi was.. how old? Ehhh, whatever...

*sigh*

Kay, he was adopted, or bought for a bargain price by Hayate's parents, or they were playing poker and won him from someone. Or he adopted himself as their son to atone.

Details, details... can I have my incest Nagi x Hayata end now? They can go marry in some other country, or just rewrite the laws with the Sanzen'in family's money & influence.

^_^
I'm pretty sure Hayate was born from his parents. But I can't remember where they explained that, or perhaps it was just a figment of my imagination. But Hayate's older brother is not actually his blood-related brother. But still, let your incest imaginations run wild. ^^
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Old 2009-09-26, 18:54   Link #2962
aldw
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I disagree. Although there is a chance Hayate might up with the other Heroines, Nagi will still be the "First Girl Wins", as you described it. There were many signs to vouch for this in the much earlier chapters and I doubt Hata is shallow enough to be goaded from his earlier plans and whatnot to give the fans what they want. I'd say this manga, if let to run its full course, would be under half-way at the moment (maybe not even near half-way). Yes, that does give the heroines to push for Hayate more, it also gives Hayate a chance to stop and think seriously about his love life. This is shown when Hayate states his feelings for Athena seriously in front of Hinagiku.
On the other hand, following the typical pattern is no less shallow than being overly pushed by the fandom to doing what they want either, so what a writer needs to do is what makes for a good story at the very least.
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Old 2009-09-26, 19:18   Link #2963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aldw View Post
On the other hand, following the typical pattern is no less shallow than being overly pushed by the fandom to doing what they want either, so what a writer needs to do is what makes for a good story at the very least.
Not necessarily. Since he has already set hints and lines that could mean a significant amount in the much earlier chapters, that gives us a slight insight to what his eventual ending would be; something that integrates all those seemingly-less-important hints into something fabulous.

Yes, this does make the ending predictable but I've seen many storylines which I've predicted, but was still amazed at how they actually did it. I've also seen storylines that went to other heroines, but did it in a poorly fashion that didn't really connect the dots, making me slightly wondering as to why they even did so. And to be fair, I've seen a storyline that did deviate into another heroine at the very last moment and it seemed just as right as if he did pair up with the heroine. Its just a matter of how they do it, not really the end result.

How this relates to Hayate no Gotoku? Right now, I see the foundations for this set for Nagi and some for Hinagiku, Ayumu, and even Maria slightly. I'm guessing this really is the turning point of the manga as Hata hasn't really concentrated on building Nagi's "foundations" but more on the rest. If he doesn't really want Hayate X Nagi, then he should continue from now on the way he's been doing it (which I highly doubt, I think he will come back to Nagi eventually).

If he has somehow used hints for Nagi to hide it for another heroine in a devious manner, then props to him.


In any case, I'm giving Hata a lot of benefit of the doubt here. I want to see if he does live up to it. I'm not hugely worried about who Hayate pairs up with, I just want to see a fabulous storyline to go with it.
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Old 2009-09-26, 19:55   Link #2964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post
What's this??

Spoiler for ????:


Is it fake? Is it an edit? Is it fanmade? I haven't read all the chapters yet, so is it from an old raw? Is it a new spoiler pic? WHAT IS THIS!????
If I remember correctly, that's from chapter 208.

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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
that's Hayate's bro with Nagi's mom.
It's certainly Nagi's mother. However, we do not know how the Hayate look-alike is. Whist one can theorise he may he Hayate's brother, that's not a certainty.

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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
So that basically cancels out a Nagi end, if of course it's a flashback, and not just something made up.
Not necessarily. It still remains a fact she wasn't amongst Hayate's not-like-Athena list. That, and he did pull out all that strength when Machina tried to take that gem from him.

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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
But, even though if it's real, does Hayate really have a brother?
Yes, he does.

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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
can I have my incest Nagi x Hayata end now? They can go marry in some other country
There's always the Netherlands.
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Old 2009-09-26, 21:35   Link #2965
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Originally Posted by Opace View Post
Athena is indeed a Yandere, but not in the brutal murder fashion many people believe yandere to be.
I have to disagree. Unlike the typical yandere, Athena is always strong and speak of her mind if necessary, and she never act out of line. Her personality never really reflects what yandere known to be; and she even said. "You must have someone else," like she was backing away when thinking about Hayate.

She may be yandere in some degree but also tsundere from my perspective like Hitagi Senjōgahara.
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Old 2009-09-26, 22:39   Link #2966
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Why is it female characters have always got to be classified as either tsundere, yandere, or any of those archetypes?
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Old 2009-09-26, 22:40   Link #2967
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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
I have to disagree. Unlike the typical yandere, Athena is always strong and speak of her mind if necessary, and she never act out of line. Her personality never really reflects what yandere known to be; and she even said. "You must have someone else," like she was backing away when thinking about Hayate.

She may be yandere in some degree but also tsundere from my perspective like Hitagi Senjōgahara.
Point taken. But, in my defence, I did say "not in the brutal murder fashion..." which, in psychotic terms, cuts off half the "definition" of yandere. I haven't watched that many animes (perhaps 5 at most) which features a yandere so I can't really talk about yanderes that much.

Still, she does have both yandere and tsundere features in my opinion. She is "tough", does have quite a violent side to her, treats somehow she loves harshly, yet still loves him. Its like combining some traits from each archetype whilst ignoring some.


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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Why is it female characters have always got to be classified as either tsundere, yandere, or any of those archetypes?
Mostly because animated girls are modelled after an archetype, multiple archetypes, or a combination of archetypes as they appeal to a certain part of the audience. Hayate no Gotoku is quite good at this I reckon, Hata has multiple girls with different [mixed personalities]. This is seen in the Hayate no Gotoku popularity contest.
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Old 2009-09-26, 22:52   Link #2968
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Originally Posted by Opace View Post
Still, she does have both yandere and tsundere features in my opinion. She is "tough", does have quite a violent side to her, treats somehow she loves harshly, yet still loves him. Its like combining some traits from each archetype whilst ignoring some.
Agree. All in all, I got trap by her interestingly unique personality.
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Old 2009-09-26, 22:57   Link #2969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Agree. All in all, I got trap by her interestingly unique personality.
Indeed. I just need this arc to be finished before I can decide where she can place my Heroine ranking table.

Any takes on whether Athena would accept Hayate again or perhaps she doesn't love him anymore or perhaps her pride won't accept Hayate once more? I personally go for rejection; it would make the story much more interesting but more dramatic. I just can't have drama with comedy, unfortunately.
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Old 2009-09-26, 23:14   Link #2970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opace View Post
perhaps she doesn't love him anymore
It's obvious she still loves him. It's now just a matter of pride and purpose. Is her goal to get the stones worth more to her than her heart? Will she be able to take the stone from Hayate by force when he refuses to give it to her?
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Old 2009-09-26, 23:16   Link #2971
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Originally Posted by Opace View Post
Indeed. I just need this arc to be finished before I can decide where she can place my Heroine ranking table.

Any takes on whether Athena would accept Hayate again or perhaps she doesn't love him anymore or perhaps her pride won't accept Hayate once more? I personally go for rejection; it would make the story much more interesting but more dramatic. I just can't have drama with comedy, unfortunately.
Like you said, the chance of Athena excepting Hayate in the next few chapters is slim to none but her feelings for him is undeniably still very strong. As of now, there is no doubt in my mind that nothing but pain and suffering for both will be resulted upon their second reunion. So if you want drama, you will most likely will your wish.
Regardless of the outcome, I just hope that she will at least smile again similar to the ones during in tEoTW arc.
(Edit: Really like her smile, so rare)
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Old 2009-09-26, 23:26   Link #2972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opace View Post
Not necessarily. Since he has already set hints and lines that could mean a significant amount in the much earlier chapters, that gives us a slight insight to what his eventual ending would be; something that integrates all those seemingly-less-important hints into something fabulous.

Yes, this does make the ending predictable but I've seen many storylines which I've predicted, but was still amazed at how they actually did it. I've also seen storylines that went to other heroines, but did it in a poorly fashion that didn't really connect the dots, making me slightly wondering as to why they even did so. And to be fair, I've seen a storyline that did deviate into another heroine at the very last moment and it seemed just as right as if he did pair up with the heroine. Its just a matter of how they do it, not really the end result.

How this relates to Hayate no Gotoku? Right now, I see the foundations for this set for Nagi and some for Hinagiku, Ayumu, and even Maria slightly. I'm guessing this really is the turning point of the manga as Hata hasn't really concentrated on building Nagi's "foundations" but more on the rest. If he doesn't really want Hayate X Nagi, then he should continue from now on the way he's been doing it (which I highly doubt, I think he will come back to Nagi eventually).

If he has somehow used hints for Nagi to hide it for another heroine in a devious manner, then props to him.


In any case, I'm giving Hata a lot of benefit of the doubt here. I want to see if he does live up to it. I'm not hugely worried about who Hayate pairs up with, I just want to see a fabulous storyline to go with it.
If it does ever end up being the same-old-same-old, no matter how ingenious the presentation may be, then it still deserves to be put on the trash heap like all the others (Toradora and Love Hina, I'm looking at you). However, my impressions of the series indicate something else entirely.

An alternative approach logically executed is just much more preferable, of which Kinoko Nasu for example makes a better effort at.

Quote:
Any takes on whether Athena would accept Hayate again or perhaps she doesn't love him anymore or perhaps her pride won't accept Hayate once more? I personally go for rejection; it would make the story much more interesting but more dramatic. I just can't have drama with comedy, unfortunately.
One thing I am certain of is that she still loves him, even if pride may prevent any honest admission of feelings by Athena atm, but a matter of effort on Hayate's part (and/or Athena too) will make the difference. It may just take more time than some fans would necessarily prefer.
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Old 2009-09-26, 23:26   Link #2973
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
It's obvious she still loves him. It's now just a matter of pride and purpose. Is her goal to get the stones worth more to her than her heart? Will she be able to take the stone from Hayate by force when he refuses to give it to her?
What I think will happen is that Hayate will refuse to give her the stone for without it Nagi would lose her inheritence. Nevetheless, Hayate still states his feelings for Athena. Athena, hearing this, would so love to state her true feelings as well but her pride and ambitions won't let her. From then on, it's unclear on what may happen.

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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Like you said, the chance of Athena excepting Hayate in the next few chapters is slim to none but her feelings for him is undeniably still very strong. As of now, there is no doubt in my mind that nothing but pain and suffering for both will be resulted upon their second reunion. So if you want drama, you will most likely will your wish.
Regardless of the outcome, I just hope that she will at least smile again similar to the ones during in tEoTW arc.
(Edit: Really like her smile, so rare)
I hope so, but I just can't imagine the older Athena smiling. Well I can but it must be quite charming.



Just about the stone, I must have missed the importance of it. I faintly remember it being the "Stone of Kings/Gods" or somewhat like that. I also faintly remember that it is needed to enter the garden. Could someone briefly explain to me the importance of the stone? I'm quite stumped.
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Old 2009-09-26, 23:37   Link #2974
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Originally Posted by Opace View Post
Just about the stone, I must have missed the importance of it. I faintly remember it being the "Stone of Kings/Gods" or somewhat like that. I also faintly remember that it is needed to enter the garden. Could someone briefly explain to me the importance of the stone? I'm quite stumped.
From the latest chapter, it explains that the stone must be worn to enter the Royal Garden (or safely enter not sure). However, Hayate entered it without the help of the stone as far as we and Athena know with no consequences.
He, as some others have said, must be the son of Zeus or his parents must had implanted a stone inside him.
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Old 2009-09-26, 23:46   Link #2975
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the stones haven't been explained yet. And I think its called king's jewel or something like that. And based on the old guy saying that you need the stone to enter really puts hayate in suspicion for entering while just running off away from reality.

And the latest translation put me in confusion. In the end of the tEoTW arc. A-tan said that she closed the door but in 241 it looks like she's trying to open it together with the old sanzenin mikado.
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Old 2009-09-27, 00:30   Link #2976
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I confused about ch 241 as well cause it says as she slept someone closed the door or something. Does that mean she actually left the royal gardens after Hayate left and then the gates closed and hence she couldn't get back into the Royal Garden?
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Old 2009-09-27, 00:54   Link #2977
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It seems that she did exist the RG after Hayate left. The reason probably was that she was waiting for him to return and end up sleeping outside the RG (since she never wanted to leave the castle before) hence the gate closed without her realization.
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Old 2009-09-27, 03:56   Link #2978
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Didn't Sanzenin Mikado buy the land where the Eternal Gardens was supposed to be, and built Hakou Gakuen on top of it?
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Old 2009-09-27, 05:15   Link #2979
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Originally Posted by Opace View Post
Didn't Sanzenin Mikado buy the land where the Eternal Gardens was supposed to be, and built Hakou Gakuen on top of it?
According to Hina, Hakuou is property of the Tennousu family, and not the Sanzenin. So I'd say no

BTW, if Hakuou was built on it, it means that the old building was already there when Hayate used it as an entrance to RG, right? Therefore I wonder if the spirits Isumi came to exorcise there in the early chapters could have a connection with it.

What do you think?
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Old 2009-09-27, 06:14   Link #2980
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If i remember it right they call the clock tower in Hakuou the Garden gate .I wonder if it have anything to do with the Royal Garden.
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