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Old 2009-10-03, 23:54   Link #3241
Used Can
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildArms View Post
And there arent any counter comments againts me!? i feel ignored *goes to a corner* im gonna watch gintama to laught for a while *sniff*
Sorry mate, your argument was solid enough, I couldn't counter it. But, okay, let me try.

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Originally Posted by WildArms View Post
If it wasnt for nagi maybe he would give his past with athena's excuse or maybe he was including that when he said if he was in a different position, he already said that he doesnt deserve to have a girl because of athena, and even makes stuff she taught him like he is the one who haves to pay for the girls stuff with his money or stuff like that. He already gave his past with athena's excuse for not being worthy to have a relationship with a girl
Hayate did say that, but he also pointed out he'd like to have a girlfriend. Not to mention Hata said Maria and Hina were in Hayate's "strike zone" meaning that he did have some interest in some girls. Certainly, what Athena taught him remains as some sort of... uhh... model for him. However, that doesn't mean that, depending on the circumstances, he may decide to bypass that, and just go for the girl.
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Old 2009-10-04, 00:06   Link #3242
zodanhko
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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Enough of this guys, I've posted the number of the chapter for you to read, and I've even posted quotes, in order to make my position solid. Stop making shitty excuses or else...
Taking chapter 239 into consideration, I don't think it is hard to understand that Hayate never once considered Ayumu as a true love interest. I mean, he realized she loves him, and he just completely rejected her in his head.

You posted the past/"old" chapter? It is MUCH MORE reasonable if you takes the "CURRENT" chapter into consideration with his "true" thoughts to apply to Rah's statement that, "Hayate NEVER really love Ayumu."


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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
How do you know his memories were "refreshed"? For all we know, he was just thinking about it. Nagi's "we'll be together forever" made him remember that, and he was overcome by guilt. But that doesn't mean he had forgot about all those events.
Yes, we don't know. However, since that is the first time the story shown he dreamed about her, and do you think it is a coincidence that he was shown to dream about her on the "SAME" day after Nagi reminded him of "We will be together forever?" The likelihood is very small. And we realized how hard he tried to forget her.


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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Nagi wasn't in the pic you're talking about. Anyway, I'm not saying he regards Ayumu in the same way he regards Athena, my point is he probably did have those kinds of feelings for her. No one said you cannot like more than one person (in a romantic sense, this is).
Why does Nagi have to be in the picture? Unarguably, I don't think we need to talk about her as his "love" interest.

What feelings? I believe he was tempting to get a girlfriend at the beginning of the story. I disagree if you think his feelings for Ayumu was "love" as he did to Athena.
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Old 2009-10-04, 00:25   Link #3243
Used Can
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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Taking chapter 239 into consideration, I don't think it is hard to understand that Hayate never once considered Ayumu as a true love interest. I mean, he realized she loves him, and he just completely rejected her in his head.

You posted the past/"old" chapter? It is MUCH MORE reasonable if you takes the "CURRENT" chapter into consideration with his "true" thoughts to apply to Rah's statement that, "Hayate NEVER really love Ayumu."
Wrong, all we can say is that she doesn't represent him the same thing Athena does. That doesn't mean he never loved Ayumu.

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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Yes, we don't know. However, since that is the first time the story shown he dreamed about her, and do you think it is a coincidence that he was shown to dream about her on the "SAME" day after Nagi reminded him of "We will be together forever?" The likelihood is very small. And we realized how hard he tried to forget her.
Nuh-uh, since he talked quite clearly about A-tan in chapter 88, there's nothing that may lead us to believe his memories were incomplete. However, we can say that the feeling of guilt wasn't as heavy as it was by chapter 178. In fact, taking into account the development (from chapter 88 to chapter 178) we can say that the burden of guilt kept on building up to that point. Nagi's words were just the detonator.

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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Why does Nagi have to be in the picture? Unarguably, I don't think we need to talk about her as his "love" interest.
Because that was a list of people Hayate didn't regard in the same fashion as Athena. Nagi wasn't there. That's all I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
What feelings? I believe he was tempting to get a girlfriend at the beginning of the story. I disagree if you think his feelings for Ayumu was "love" as he did to Athena.
I've never said it was anything to the same degree he felt for Athena, but that doesn't mean he didn't like her. As I've said, a person may like (romantically) many different people, but that doesn't mean he/she likes them all to the same degree.
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Old 2009-10-04, 00:48   Link #3244
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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Wrong, all we can say is that she doesn't represent him the same thing Athena does. That doesn't mean he never loved Ayumu.
He just officially stated that Athena was different from the others including Ayumu, Hina, Maria...which was referring to love. And he clearly realizes Ayumu loves him and just completely rejected her.

If you think he "loved" Ayumu- after he even rejected her before, and now, completely rejected her again in his head- and changed back to Athena, I must say I'm impressed. Seriously, for the lack of vocabulary, you are talking shet right now. (using your word ^^)

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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Nuh-uh, since he talked quite clearly about A-tan in chapter 88, there's nothing that may lead us to believe his memories were incomplete. However, we can say that the feeling of guilt wasn't as heavy as it was by chapter 178. In fact, taking into account the development (from chapter 88 to chapter 178) we can say that the burden of guilt kept on building up to that point. Nagi's words were just the detonator.
"Nuh-uh," in the EoTW arc, you do realized how hard he tried to forget about her right, as a child?
It makes much more sense to conclude that he remembered some part of her in the previous chapter until chapter 178. The reason for him dreaming about her was also given on the same day he started, the first time it shown his past with her. You can not deny that. It DOES NOT make sense if he needs an initiation to start dreaming about her if he already "FULLY" remember her. You can not deny that,

However, I can deny that he did not fully remember her until chapter 178 since we both do not know.

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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Because that was a list of people Hayate didn't regard in the same fashion as Athena. Nagi wasn't there. That's all I'm saying.
Did you place it there to make the argument longer?...

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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
I've never said it was anything to the same degree he felt for Athena, but that doesn't mean he didn't like her. As I've said, a person may like (romantically) many different people, but that doesn't mean he/she likes them all to the same degree.
So you were saying he loved Ayumu, but loved Ayumu less than Athena with the chapters given? With those information given...
Can I start that Hayate loved Maria and Hina before, too? Since he had a crush on Maria (most likely like Maria more than Ayumu) and Hina always help him, he admired her? This is like what your doing right now...If that is your belief, I have nothing more to say.

Last edited by zodanhko; 2009-10-04 at 01:35.
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Old 2009-10-04, 01:42   Link #3245
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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
"Nuh-uh," in the EoTW arc, you do realized how hard he tried to forget about her right, as a child?
It makes much more sense to conclude that he remembered some part of her in the previous chapter until chapter 178. The reason for him dreaming about her was also given on the same day he started, the first time it shown his past with her. You can not deny that. It DOES NOT make sense if he needs an initiation to start dreaming about her if he already "FULLY" remember her. You can not deny that,

However, I can deny that he did not fully remember her until chapter 178 since we both do not know.
You know, it was never said once that Hayate tried to forget about Athena. If you can tell me which chapter that says Hayate tried to forget about Athena during the EotW arc I'll reread it. Also, I don't think this is the first time since they parted their ways in 10 years that Hayate has dreamt about that event. I remember that Hayate also dreamt about it several times afterwards too, with no trigger what so ever. The dream Hayate had was probably to introduce Athena properly, as Hata had foreshadowed her appearance ages ago.
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Old 2009-10-04, 02:06   Link #3246
zodanhko
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Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13 View Post
You know, it was never said once that Hayate tried to forget about Athena. If you can tell me which chapter that says Hayate tried to forget about Athena during the EotW arc I'll reread it. Also, I don't think this is the first time since they parted their ways in 10 years that Hayate has dreamt about that event. I remember that Hayate also dreamt about it several times afterwards too, with no trigger what so ever. The dream Hayate had was probably to introduce Athena properly, as Hata had foreshadowed her appearance ages ago.
That was the reason why he worked so hard and strengthen his body so much.you know, his crazy push-up routine?
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate...u/c187/10.html

After he parted with her, he still dreamed about her. However, chapter 178 was the first time Hayate dreamed about her due to the trigger of "We will be together forever" after 10 years which as I stated "refreshed" his memory of her.

However, Athena never once forget about him with the ring still by her side as proof.
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Old 2009-10-04, 09:28   Link #3247
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Love is either "at first sight", which is rare, or it "develops" over time. Hayata knew Ayumu for a while, even though he didn't interact much with her, since he was always busy with a job or misfortune around the corner. We can safely rule out love at first sight, but that can be said for Athena as well. If he had the chance to know her better, then little by little his feelings might change from friend / girl interest into love.

Let's say that he doesn't meet Nagi, nor does he meet with Athena ever again in the future. Ayumu somehow takes the first step (yeah, again) on his birthday, near graduation, or on some other event. They start going out, but how does Hayate act? In this scenario he wont meet with anyone else from the current cast, but he doesn't know that. He's still haunted by the memories of his past. He's been tormented by them for 10 years now, but he still can't let go. Could love change that? I wonder... if he could let go of the past, and stop hoping that he'll meet her again some day. If he couldn't do that, then he couldn't possibly get into a serious relationship with ANYONE AT ALL. Especially not if he follows Athena's standards, which are over the top.

But that's all an alternate reality. Now he has the chance of freeing himself from it all. If he can somehow manage to get together with her again, or if they part again, and this time for real without regrets.

If they part, he would be completely free to pursue any love interest. He might consider going out with Ayumu at that point, but if Hina confesses it would certainly mess things up. And if he does start going out with either of the two, Nagi would eventually notice, and........ heh... game over.

Well, things definitely won't go that way, because then he'd either have to give up on someone, or stay in a lock of uncertainty till... who knows? That is of course, if Hata doesn't understand that he can't please everyone.

People can certainly move on, but who can forget their first love?

Hayate needs to resolve everything with her now. But even so, that doesn't rule out the possibility of him trying to get her again! (this of course if he fails to do so in their first real meeting - that will happen soon, I hope...)

Athena is "becoming" a very important piece of the HnG universe. Whatever happens in Athens, he'll still meet with her again in Japan. They could be enemies, where Athena tries to get his gem, or something else entirely...


If they clash, and can't be together, because Athena's plan to get the gems, and Hayate's promise to Nagi, how will he take it? A clean departure, or full of regret like 10 years ago?

Well, if she could only borrow it for a moment to open the path....

Surprise me Hata~


Also, this here!


Quote:
Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
That was the reason why he worked so hard and strengthen his body so much.you know, his crazy push-up routine?
Spoiler for Why yes, I do recall something like that...:
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Old 2009-10-04, 09:50   Link #3248
leoblack9
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Originally Posted by EternityPala View Post
A thought : Most of the heroines are pretty well off, and i'd say, there's a good chance, that they might help Hayate pay off his debts.
I had a thought like this, somehow..

Hamster: Hey Nagi, how much debt does Hayate own to you?

Nagi: 150million yen! So there's not in a million years that you'll be together with him!

Hina: (Fuu- I need to save up my money so when the time comes, I'll propose to Hayate and at the same time help him to pay his debt so he can be with me)

Athena: Only 150 million yen? Fine, a deal it is.

Nagi: No! I'll raise it now to 1 billion yen if you!

Athena: Face it, I can buy him from you even if the price is ten-fold.
(Ok I guess that's exaggeration)

Nagi: ..
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Old 2009-10-04, 10:40   Link #3249
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even its ten fold or 20 fold and even its the whole inheritance of tennouso which holds the same level as sanzenin in power. It holds no point at all against the king's jewel which hayate holds though the only one who really needs the jewel is mikado. So even jewel itself is like worth the whole inheritance its not worth selling it. Maybe it can cost a couple of hundred million but if the buyer doesn't know its true meaning its nothing.
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Old 2009-10-04, 11:04   Link #3250
zodanhko
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Well, I don't think Hayate is a person who rely on others especially with his debt. As much as Athena likes Hayate, I think she would prefer Hayate to solve the problem himself; not because she doesn't have money but that is what a man must do, solving his own problem. She may help him here and there, but most likely won't give the money to him directly.
It will amaze me if that actually occurs. Have to wait and see what Hata in-store.
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Old 2009-10-04, 11:26   Link #3251
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It's just a thought, nothing to jump about but quite funny if it happens. Besides, I don't know how Hata's brain twists so there.

I suddenly want the series to be focused on a certain funny character..
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Old 2009-10-04, 11:32   Link #3252
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No jumpy feelings there; mines' are thoughts as well which also very unlikely to happen. True, this manga is getting awfully difficult to predict lately, so many twists and turns.
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Old 2009-10-04, 11:37   Link #3253
leoblack9
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Hmm, I wonder why I'm getting bored about the series lately, is it because of the consistent cliffhangers?

Usually when I was high on the series I couldn't get tired of it. That was the times when I usually thought of countless fanfics in my mind. So I get some sleepless nights.

And oh, none of those fanfics happened in a happy way, I always like it when Hayate suffers and there's drama and stuff. So there, I'm a full blown masochist.

Where's KLAUS?!! I want him to appear in the following chapters! Too many serious chapters with low energy (unlike EotW which was serious but high energy/feelings).
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Old 2009-10-04, 11:44   Link #3254
zodanhko
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Sadly, that's what happen when two lovers reunited after they had a horribly unwanted departure. The cliffhangers are killing me...I personally would like some "high energy/feelings" as well like the ones in the EoTW arc especially.^^
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Old 2009-10-04, 11:49   Link #3255
leoblack9
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Yeah, felt different really. Made me bawww over poor Hayate and pity him more.

Wait, who hasn't pitied Hayate yet?

Honestly the feeling I got from that arc is kinda the same feeling when I watched Elfen Lied, very damn heavy and unforgettable when done recently.

And oh, it sticks to my your like paste. It did on my mind for nearly 6 months! 6 months I tell you! Elfen lied well like 2 months, another one got on like 3 months as well (Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann).
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Old 2009-10-04, 12:01   Link #3256
zodanhko
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No more talk about this subject please . It really gives me a bad vibe on the foregoing chapters.
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Old 2009-10-04, 12:11   Link #3257
Rah
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Originally Posted by leoblack9 View Post
Yeah, felt different really. Made me bawww over poor Hayate and pity him more.

Wait, who hasn't pitied Hayate yet?

Honestly the feeling I got from that arc is kinda the same feeling when I watched Elfen Lied, very damn heavy and unforgettable when done recently.

And oh, it sticks to my your like paste. It did on my mind for nearly 6 months! 6 months I tell you! Elfen lied well like 2 months, another one got on like 3 months as well (Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann).

Heeeeeh, really??

I love tragedy. Especially sad endings.


Pity Hayate? Why would you do that? Enjoy his suffering! All the bad things continuously happening to him... heheh... that's the best freggin' part!!

It's like going to a funeral in a clown costume, and throwing water balloons at people! HAHAHAH, SHOW ME YOUR GRIEF!!!


*sigh*

How I wish someone died in HnG...

Hata is no fun... pffff
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Old 2009-10-04, 21:17   Link #3258
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I enjoy hayate's continuous misfortune but having someone died on a comedy manga is a NO NO!
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Old 2009-10-04, 22:49   Link #3259
zodanhko
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I won't mind if Hayate and Athena die together in the Royal Garden. Or do I? Well, at least have a child first or else her talents would go to waste...
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Old 2009-10-04, 23:27   Link #3260
Used Can
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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
He just officially stated that Athena was different from the others including Ayumu, Hina, Maria...which was referring to love. And he clearly realizes Ayumu loves him and just completely rejected her.
Once again, you're assuming that it was impossible for him to love more than one girl. In chapter 239, he said Athena is the girl he loves, but that doesn't mean there weren't other girls he liked. All it meant was that, compared to the other girls, Athena is the one he wants to be with.

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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
If you think he "loved" Ayumu- after he even rejected her before, and now, completely rejected her again in his head- and changed back to Athena, I must say I'm impressed. Seriously, for the lack of vocabulary, you are talking shet right now. (using your word ^^)
Ouch! That hurt, mate. ;_;

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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
"Nuh-uh," in the EoTW arc, you do realized how hard he tried to forget about her right, as a child?
It makes much more sense to conclude that he remembered some part of her in the previous chapter until chapter 178. The reason for him dreaming about her was also given on the same day he started, the first time it shown his past with her. You can not deny that. It DOES NOT make sense if he needs an initiation to start dreaming about her if he already "FULLY" remember her. You can not deny that,

However, I can deny that he did not fully remember her until chapter 178 since we both do not know.
Okay so, he was aware of A-tan by chapter 88; he seemed to be able to remember several of the things she taught him, and he even said/implied he had been following those things throughout his life, but he barely had any idea about her? That doesn't make much sense. But, all the same, I have no means to prove your idea completely wrong, so, I'll leave it that way.

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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Did you place it there to make the argument longer?...
No, I've just mentioned it because you said Nagi wasn't nothing more but a friend (in Hayate's eyes). I pointed out she wasn't in Hayate's "not like Athena list".

Mind you, the only end I wouldn't like would be a Nagi end (I like her, but I don't think their relationship has been built that way). However, I'm not denying the chances for that to happen. In fact, that's what we may get in the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
So you were saying he loved Ayumu, but loved Ayumu less than Athena with the chapters given? With those information given...
Can I start that Hayate loved Maria and Hina before, too? Since he had a crush on Maria (most likely like Maria more than Ayumu) and Hina always help him, he admired her? This is like what your doing right now...If that is your belief, I have nothing more to say.
No, I'm basing myself on what Hayate himself said on chapter 157. If he's said something like that for either Maria, Hinagiku or any other girl, then I guess your argument would hold.
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