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Old 2009-10-24, 20:49   Link #3961
zodanhko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post
So basically you're saying that whatever happens, if we understand it or not, it happened because. And just because. There's nothing behind it, there's nothing to explain. And Athena still is awesome.
No, it is funny that you found that "Athena searching for Hayate" is bullshit when it is a fact. It is very funny. Like I said before," Just beat up Hata, and make us proud as you being the new author."

No, it may be illogical to think about it realistically, but it is true and can be logical if Hata made that way in his non-realistic world of manga. It has no affect on the plots; Hata can easily just said "she hasn't look for him." But he didn't, so?

Please think...
There was no reason for me to explain to you "illogically" how it happened because I was already thought it was "illogical" from the beginning from real life perspective.

Yes, Athena is awesome. What about it?
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Old 2009-10-24, 20:51   Link #3962
Koroshiya_Kame_13
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Like I said before, Hata made a mistake just saying Athena tried to search for him for 10 years. Hata obviously couldn't make her find him, otherwise we wouldn't have this story. What he wrote contradicted Athena's resources and now he has to come up with something that makes sense for Athena to miss finding Hayate for 10 years. For a long running series, chances are one or two mistakes can pop up.

Edit: Sorry Rah, didn't see you reply there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post
Couldn't he just write that she didn't search for him, but that he was always in her thoughts? That she was afraid to face him? Or an example why she couldn't find him no matter what, based on her abilities, funds, ....
No, Hata needed to write that Athena was a step later than Nagi to saving Hayate, otherwise the change wouldn't be triggered when Hayate kept on talking about how grateful he is to Nagi.

Last edited by Koroshiya_Kame_13; 2009-10-24 at 21:07.
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Old 2009-10-24, 20:58   Link #3963
Rah
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Yeah, you're clueless. You and your crazy logic and realism, and then contradictions with "mangas are illogical" yeah, yeah.. I'm wasting my time.

Hata messed up, or he'll explain in detail. I already said this, but I'll repeat it anyway.

Athena is filthy rich. - Fact
Athena is very intelligent. - Fact
Athena had 10 years time to find him. - Fact
Athena didn't find him with the above means on her disposal. - Fact

Am I wrong to label her retarded? Okay, it's plot related. They couldn't have met, because that would screw up the current development. I'll accept that. Fine. But that doesn't mean that I like it. With all those facts to mess up like that... *sigh*

Oh, well..

Details, right? Haha!



Edit~


Quote:
Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13 View Post
Like I said before, Hata made a mistake just saying Athena tried to search for him for 10 years. Hata obviously couldn't make her find him, otherwise we wouldn't have this story. What he wrote contradicted Athena's resources and now he has to come up with something that makes sense for Athena to miss finding Hayate for 10 years. For a long running series, chances are one or two mistakes can pop up.
Edit: Sorry Rah, didn't see you reply there.

No, Hata needed to write that Athena was a step late to saving Hayate, otherwise the change wouldn't be triggered.

Yeah, plot related. It's really lame...

But since it's a fact that she was searching for him, but couldn't find him regardless of the means on her disposal, I'd like to know precisely why. That's whats bothering me so. I... just can't accept a "because", or "plot"....

^_^


Sorry... hehe


Edit2~

Lol at my English. Heavily contradicted myself by spelling something wrong. Haha, jeez!
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Old 2009-10-24, 21:04   Link #3964
Koroshiya_Kame_13
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Yeah, especially since HnG is a long series and with the current arc which Hata wants to make exciting, one or two plot holes are bound to pop up. A mangaka's life is pretty hard, having to deal with deadlines and writer's block.
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Old 2009-10-24, 21:08   Link #3965
Rah
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Let's go help him! I'll give him "ideas"! <3
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Old 2009-10-24, 21:14   Link #3966
zodanhko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post
Yeah, you're clueless. You and your crazy logic and realism, and then contradictions with "mangas are illogical" yeah, yeah.. I'm wasting my time.
No, you are "clueless." I NEVER stated that "mangas are illogical" (Please, at least understand that). I said that "illogical phenomenons" can apply to the world of manga and be logical.

Please, do not take words out of my mouth if you still do not understand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post
Hata messed up, or he'll explain in detail. I already said this, but I'll repeat it anyway.

Athena is filthy rich. - Fact
Athena is very intelligent. - Fact
Athena had 10 years time to find him. - Fact
Athena didn't find him with the above means on her disposal. - Fact

Am I wrong to label her retarded? Okay, it's plot related. They couldn't have met, because that would screw up the current development. I'll accept that. Fine. But that doesn't mean that I don't like it. With all those facts to mess up like that... *sigh*

Oh, well..

Details, right? Haha!

Edit~

Yeah, plot related. It's really lame...

But since it's a fact that she was searching for him, but couldn't find him regardless of the means on her disposal, I'd like to know precisely why. That's whats bothering me so. I... just can't accept a "because", or "plot"....

^_^

Sorry... hehe
Yes, you are very wrong in calling her a retard if you do not even know her circumstances, and what happened during those 10 years of her life. Moreover, you do realized that she is "most likely the greatest student to ever enter Hakou", right?

If Athena is really a retard, I dare to say that EVERYONE in HnG is equal to or below the level of retards. And you and I are unquestionably even lower than insects compare to their "retarded" minds in term of intelligence.

Edit: No more serious insults toward Athena.

Last edited by zodanhko; 2009-10-24 at 21:29.
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Old 2009-10-24, 21:27   Link #3967
frivolity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Yes, you are very wrong in calling her a retard if you do not even know her circumstances, and what happened during those 10 years of her life. Moreover, you do realized that she is "most likely the greatest student to ever enter Hakou", right?

If Athena is really a retard, I dare to say that EVERYONE in HnG is equal to or below the level of retards. And you and I are unquestionably even lower than insects compare to their "retarded" minds in term of intelligence.

Edit: No more serious insults toward Athena.
If we were to go by this argument, perhaps I could presume that Athena being the greatest student to enter Hakou was an "illogical phenomenon"?

The way I see it, there's a difference between events being illogical and characters being illogical.

It is inevitable in pretty much any story for events to start out illogical. Hayate being extremely unlucky is one such example. What's the probability of all those unlikely events happening to the same person? Practically nil, but such illogic is acceptable, since it's part of the world that Hata created right from the start. Of course, once this world has been fleshed out, future events should fall within the boundaries defined at the beginning, but I'll leave it at that since it's not really an issue here.

Characters, and I'm referring specifically to their natures, such as how they react, how they behave and so on, should be consistent. We're not talking about particles of matter that follow Brownian motion after all, we're talking about people, or in some cases, characters being personified. People don't do things randomly just because, unless that's the way the character is designed. Besides that, there should be a logical explanation for their actions that can be tied back to what we know about them.

This, I believe, is where Rah's point was completely missed. It is illogical for Isumi and co. to know magic. No problem with that since it's part of the story as introduced from the beginning. On the other hand, for Athena not to be able to find Hayate given her resources and ability to use them goes against what we know of her character. If we're going to assume that Athena has not changed from what we know of her, ie: she is rich and intelligent, then the only reason for her not having found Hayate is that something else occurred.

Rah suggested that she did not really search for him. I don't think that's the case, but I have no way of disproving the claim since Hata has not given any explanation thus far. Rah also gave the other possibility that Athena is retarded. I don't think that's true either, but if Hata just leaves this matter up in the air without explaining, then we'll never know.

Last edited by frivolity; 2009-10-24 at 21:38. Reason: grammar
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Old 2009-10-24, 21:44   Link #3968
Himegami Akane
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In the next issue of Hayate no Gotoku : Lord Rah Vs Zodanhko

Well...why are you both still discuting about this??

Athena couldn't find him, or she found him but don't wanted to let him see her...since she knows where he was...

Athena isn't a retard, but i can't say she isn't a little weak emotionally...

Athena is very intelligent, rich, powerful (??), and with all that and beign Hakuou's Board Chairman, she could easly find Hayate, but there's the possibility that something happened (not-so-important to us know) that made her didn't find him...

Just forget about the WHY of everything that Hata does... obviously there will be things that we won't know why happened...
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Old 2009-10-24, 21:44   Link #3969
Rah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
No, you are "clueless." I NEVER stated that "mangas are illogical" (Please, at least understand that). I said that "illogical phenomenons" can apply to the world of manga and be logical.

Please, do not take words out of my mouth if you still do not understand.




Yes, you are very wrong in calling her a retard if you do not even know her circumstances, and what happened during those 10 years of her life. Moreover, you do realized that she is "most likely the greatest student to ever enter Hakou", right?

If Athena is really a retard, I dare to say that EVERYONE in HnG is equal to or below the level of retards. And you and I are unquestionably even lower than insects compare to their "retarded" minds in term of intelligence.

Edit: No more serious insults toward Athena.

Eh? Well, I didn't bother checking what you stated and such. I guess it's a habit of mine to make words prettier, or in my favor.

And no. No imaginary character is better than any real human being, unless of course you compare them in their world with us in ours. Otherwise, just as something made up it's not better. Doesn't even exist...

Can be said in many different ways what such character achieved, but that's just made up shit by the author.

Don't lower yourself to something imaginary dude...

-

A hand of applause too frivolity!


Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
Rah suggested that she did not really search for him. I don't think that's the case, but I have no way of disproving the claim since Hata has not given any explanation thus far. Rah also gave the other possibility that Athena is retarded. I don't think that's true either, but if Hata just leaves this matter up in the air without explaining, then we'll never know.
Oh God, why am I laughing? No really, I can't stop.

Rah gave the possibility that she's retarded, and you're going to take it as an argument point?

*ahem*

Okay, I'll call Hata retarded then, since some people would prefer it that way, even though, by doing so I'm indirectly insulting that character. Lol...

But nobody cares if it's Hata, and if it's indirect, right?


Edit~


Quote:
Originally Posted by Himegami Akane View Post
In the next issue of Hayate no Gotoku : Lord Rah Vs Zodanhko

Well...why are you both still discuting about this??

Athena couldn't find him, or she found him but don't wanted to let him see her...since she knows where he was...

Athena isn't a retard, but i can't say she isn't a little weak emotionally...

Athena is very intelligent, rich, powerful (??), and with all that and beign Hakuou's Board Chairman, she could easly find Hayate, but there's the possibility that something happened (not-so-important to us know) that made her didn't find him...

Just forget about the WHY of everything that Hata does... obviously there will be things that we won't know why happened...

Oh, my...

I attained the title of "Lordship". I'm honored...

Oh, oh! What do I get? What do I get? <3
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Old 2009-10-24, 21:53   Link #3970
Koroshiya_Kame_13
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What I want now is the current arc be resolved and not left with any cliffhangars and move on to an arc involving Maria. BTW, is Klaus and Nagi's mum's backstory out yet? I want to read it.
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Old 2009-10-24, 21:54   Link #3971
frivolity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post
A hand of applause too frivolity!




Oh God, why am I laughing? No really, I can't stop.

Rah gave the possibility that she's retarded, and you're going to take it as an argument point?

*ahem*

Okay, I'll call Hata retarded then, since some people would prefer it that way, even though, by doing so I'm indirectly insulting that character. Lol...

But nobody cares if it's Hata, and if it's indirect, right?
Lol no, I knew you made that side comment in jest, so I was actually using it to SUPPORT your argument that Hata should explain why Athena couldn't find Hayate, because if he doesn't, then anything goes really.
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Old 2009-10-24, 21:56   Link #3972
zodanhko
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Well, I do agree with Rah that Athena not able to find Hayate was unthinkable with all her resources and characteristics; it is irrational/illogical from realistic perspective and out of her characters. Maybe, Rah and me have too much confidence in Athena's ability in dealing with the real world and with her massive amount of money, we thought that she can do anything. That it seems illogical that she couldn't find a person...

Since Athena stated that she tried to find Hayate but couldn't, there must be some reasons that give her difficulty. I agree. Or it may just be a plot-device plan by Hata. I would like to see the reasons he may/may not give us.


Rah, you should just directly insult Hata from the beginning, and this debate will never happened in the first place.

@fivolity
"If we were to go by this argument, perhaps I could presume that Athena being the greatest student to enter Hakou was an "illogical phenomenon"?"

Why is that?

Last edited by zodanhko; 2009-10-24 at 22:28.
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Old 2009-10-24, 21:56   Link #3973
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post


A F/S Night reference? It's a parody manga...

Perhaps he was an old hero, that did many good deeds, but fell to corruption, or was somehow influenced to do some bad things. We don't have enough info.
midas = Gil?

it does explain the golden armor
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Old 2009-10-24, 22:24   Link #3974
Himegami Akane
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Ok, so let's everyone just insult Hata and stop this senseless discussion about Athena's beign don't able of finding Hayate/power/whatsoever...

When the RAW comes out?
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Old 2009-10-24, 23:31   Link #3975
Rah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
Lol no, I knew you made that side comment in jest, so I was actually using it to SUPPORT your argument that Hata should explain why Athena couldn't find Hayate, because if he doesn't, then anything goes really.
^_^

Quote:
Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Well, I do agree with Rah that Athena not able to find Hayate was unthinkable with all her resources and characteristics; it is irrational/illogical from realistic perspective and out of her characters. Maybe, Rah and me have too much confidence in Athena's ability in dealing with the real world and with her massive amount of money, we thought that she can do anything. That it seems illogical that she couldn't find a person...

Since Athena stated that she tried to find Hayate but couldn't, there must be some reasons that give her difficulty. I agree. Or it may just be a plot-device plan by Hata. I would like to see the reasons he may/may not give us.


Rah, you should just directly insult Hata from the beginning, and this debate will never happened in the first place.

@fivolity
"If we were to go by this argument, perhaps I could presume that Athena being the greatest student to enter Hakou was an "illogical phenomenon"?"

Why is that?
But it was a fun argument. At least I was enjoying it~

Oh, and I agree with your post, which is... uncommon. Lol.

With everything that we've mentioned it's impossible that she didn't find him. What's Hata thinking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
midas = Gil?

it does explain the golden armor

GIRUGAMESH!!




Lol, I couldn't refrain myself from posting that. xD

Golden armor? Yeah, that's typical of Gilgamesh, but you're thinking of someone with it in HnG. I've got really crappy memory, so could someone refresh it, please? Does Midas have golden armor, or is otherwise colored golden? I'm clueless....

Plus, Athena is shooting swords out of nowhere. Another Gil trait? Is Hayata gonna turn into a male Saber? Since Athena is playing the role of Gil...


Damn, that makes sense! Hata, you slick bastard...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Himegami Akane View Post
Ok, so let's everyone just insult Hata and stop this senseless discussion about Athena's beign don't able of finding Hayate/power/whatsoever...

When the RAW comes out?
Uuuuuuuuuuuuu..........

Wednesday.

That's in 4 days.

....

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Old 2009-10-24, 23:52   Link #3976
Himegami Akane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah
Uuuuuuuuuuuuu..........

Wednesday.

That's in 4 days.
4 days...well...i think i can last long enough to see it...probably i would be dead until tuesday....

Don't worry...i tell you guys if i could survive until there...if i die then i probably won't post anything wednesday...
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Old 2009-10-25, 00:04   Link #3977
Rah
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But you already know what happens. This means that you need to wait 5-6 days for the new spoilers, because this chapter doesn't count.

It continues from Athena & Isumi's fight, and ends with a cliffhanger (basically Isumi used a powerful attack that didn't work on her, and Athena (Midas) mocks her that she hasn't faced someone as powerful as her before...

And that's that. (unless I messed up somewhere when typing that... I'm too lazy to check Koroshiya_Kame_13's translation, a few pages back xD)

The chapter after this week might have a turning point, or conclusion. You should be excited / expecting it instead of this week's raw.


Mhmm... well, it's bed time.

Nighty night HnG Raw community & guests~
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Old 2009-10-25, 07:00   Link #3978
Teleutao
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Hey guys, I just thought of something else to add (obviously)!

Maybe Midas' daughter isn't Athena, Maria or anyone in the story at all. The Greek Mythology he had a daughter and his touch of gold caused her to become a gold statue. It was the price he paid for his greed, maybe now he needs the Royal Garden to undo that and get his daughter back. Possibly he is using Athena as a vessel to achieve this, and likely is still a dick and hasn't actually learned his lesson yet so it will be doomed to failure. Wow, I think that would make Midas the only sympathetic villain in HnG (assuming you can forgive him for what he's doing to Athena).

Ah the plot holes, so much fun to talk about and such a laugh in retrospect. I admit that my suspension of disbelief was broken as well, but it happens a lot like that in comics as well. Sure, Superman and Lex Luthor knew each other as teenagers and later became enemies. Oh wait, now they didn't meet until Clark Kent moved to Metropolis and they started out as enemies. Happens all the time when an author adds to the back story since it's so hard not to make SOMEthing contradict somewhere, oh well.

As for the Fate/Stay Night references (possible)...I'm so happy, we're finally going back to parodies. It gives me hope for the future that HnG may one day make me laugh again.
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Old 2009-10-25, 10:33   Link #3979
Himegami Akane
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Join Date: Oct 2009
...............................................
.......................
................
.................................

WTF??

I agree with you that Maria can't be Midas's daughter, or maybe Hata does something and make her his daughter for some unknown reason...the same goes for Athena...

As i could see in the EotW arc there wasn't any golden statue...

No Fate/Stay Night references... it's a long way to HnG become like something on Fate...i hope this doesn't happen...

Also Rah,

I can't say i'm not expecting the next Chapter, but i just want some fun... this arc doesn't seem to solve anything much...
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Old 2009-10-25, 11:01   Link #3980
zodanhko
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Well, this arc give about 100x information compare to the last 200 chapters which speak nothing about the mystery but revolved around comedy and character development. It even has Hayate, the male protagonist of a harem, confessed his feelings...

Last edited by zodanhko; 2009-10-25 at 11:11.
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