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Old 2009-11-25, 00:22   Link #4981
zodanhko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
I wasn't talking about change there, but one of the things that prevent her from expressing herself freely to Hayate (or anyone else).
Then there was no reason to reply to my statement from before...

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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
I'm talking about change as in people change over time, especially when they have to go through tough things. And I think she has indeed changed. For example, when she first met Hayate (a complete stranger for her, back then) she had no problems showing him a smile. However, right now, she looks like a cold person (even if only in the outside). For example, when she met Hina, even if she did try becoming friends with her, she was still quite serious and a bit distant.
I already stated that Athena may built more barriers around herself but she is still pretty much the same as she was before: her perception of reality, her feelings in relationships, her behaviors in relationships, her overall personality. Athena was already a distant person as Hayate stated when he first met her.
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Old 2009-11-25, 01:39   Link #4982
Rah
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Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
Coloured Hamster sure was cute in ch250
Spoiler for AYUMIIINNNNNN!!!:


Spoiler for @zod:



Anyway, It's impossible to say at this point if she's still the same as 10 years ago, or if she changed. It might be true that she's just acting tough, because she's in such a state all the time. There's always someone that wants her money, she's worried as hell about herself (if she noticed Midas, perhaps for some other reason), about Hayate, her past is a constant reminder that trusting people ends in suffering, so she doesn't trust anyone..

Just for that you'd have to indeed put a helluva lot "barriers" around yourself, but it's not impossible that she really changed to what she is now. Perhaps she still trusted people after her incident with Hayate, but was betrayed so many times over the years that she just can't trust anyone, and her cold attitude comes naturally..

But now you're probably thinking that someone strong willed and proud as her possibly couldn't succumb to such a state. Well, Midas did possess her, and that's indisputable evidence that she was unstable from the start - I can't say otherwise, because being only 7, and in such a state is really... She sought shelter within a relationship, within love... from loneliness, from her despair, whatever it was / is, but got betrayed in the end..

Maybe after Hayate she found someone else? I'm not referring to another romantic relationship, but perhaps a "friend" / or "friends" over the time, that would console her, and keep her company, but only because of her wealth. In the end, she'd be betrayed again, and again, but she'd still put her trust into people, because being alone was just too painful.

So, she's either succumbed to it, or put a Damocles type barrier around herself (I'm referring to Geass)..

If it's the latter, I'd like to see put her faith into Hayate and his friends after she's saved from Midas (or perhaps still when possessed, after Hayate promises that he'll save her - if he doesn't intend to break the gem), and then at some crucial moment, when she's in trouble, and she's thinking about how she trusted Hayate and his friends, how she'll get betrayed again.. just then they come save her...

Or if you prefer, Hayate comes save her alone. But IMHO, it'd be a greater effect if there were more people. I want that kind of happy drama. I wanna see her let go everything that she's been holding onto for the past 10 years and more. She finally wasn't betrayed. Someone stood up for her, someone went through a lot to help her...

Ah, in short, I wanna see her cry her heart out about all the pain that she's been through, and then accept their friendship / become a member of the "Hayate is a baka that doesn't understand my feelings club", etc... ^_^
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Old 2009-11-25, 01:52   Link #4983
Koroshiya_Kame_13
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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
Spoiler for @zod:
Looks like some dojinshi made a picture on when Hayate woke up in chapter 244 (was it?) with Athena hiding under the bed.
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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
Or if you prefer, Hayate comes save her alone. But IMHO, it'd be a greater effect if there were more people. I want that kind of happy drama. I wanna see her let go everything that she's been holding onto for the past 10 years and more. She finally wasn't betrayed. Someone stood up for her, someone went through a lot to help her...
Typical drama much, although it will be pretty touching.
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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
Ah, in short, I wanna see her cry her heart out about all the pain that she's been through, and then accept their friendship / become a member of the "Hayate is a baka that doesn't understand my feelings club", etc... ^_^
That really contradicts her character. Athena and Maria are some of the characters that I find hard to picture in this kind of situation but since this is HnG, anything could happen really.
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Old 2009-11-25, 02:08   Link #4984
Rah
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Contradictions are good. "Typical drama" is good too!

You find it hard to picture mainly because you don't know them all that well, and you, like everyone else, made a picture of her character in your mind. She's not the type to do that.. or that..

Contradicting yourself already~

We don't know how Maria is for real. She might be suppressing something. Doesn't she feel lonely at all? She was brought up without her parents, and is constantly caring for Nagi. But there wasn't anyone that really cared for her (well, I'm assuming this, because of lack of information, and Klaus / Mikado couldn't really fit that role). Klaus is probably filler, and Mikado is a schemer that desires limitless power, or something the like...

Athena is already suppressing everything. That's why she looks so distant and cold...

Whatever she went through before she met Hayate is still there, troubling her. Her love for him was already a way to run away from it.. to forget about it...

Though, don't misunderstand me. Her love was / still is real. Just at that time 10 years ago, even though real, she still used it to forget about whatever pain was in her heart...

Lovely, huh?
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Old 2009-11-25, 02:33   Link #4985
Koroshiya_Kame_13
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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
You find it hard to picture mainly because you don't know them all that well, and you, like everyone else, made a picture of her character in your mind. She's not the type to do that.. or that..

Contradicting yourself already~
To me they are like the dark anonymous figures in Detective Conan shrouded in another layer of dark mist. In my opinion, the top 5 most mysterious characters in this manga is Maria, Athena, Mikado, Himegami and Hayate's brother (not in list of importance or level of mysteriousness). From the presentation of their characters available right now, they don't seem to be the type to do such a thing, of course, it could change later depending on whether Hata wants a change.
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Old 2009-11-25, 03:21   Link #4986
Rah
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Supposing that it's not all a big conspiracy, and they're not trolling Hayate. That's an outrageous thought.. heh..

Yeah, I'll agree with you about the mysterious characters. Mikado might turn out to be a really good father if Yukariko were to return. He could turn around so badly, that it'd give everyone nausea.

Although we don't know much about her; Athena is the kind of character that holds everything in. Of that I'm sure...

Maria might be lonely at times, but she's probably as we saw her throughout the manga. I'm not expecting major surprises about her real character, or a change in her personality, but we still have to know how she's connected to everything. I'll rule out any other new characters that might suddenly pop up, and go with the assumption that she's related to someone. Preferably with Athena. Especially if her parents are dead.

Since I'm thinking about parents already, an absurd thought crossed my mind. What if Hina's parents are Athena's as well? And it's all a huuuggeeee conspiracy.. hahaha, it doesn't even fit. Ignore what I said.

Anyway, next we have Himegami. Apparently, if the info isn't wrong, he's around the same age as Maria. Basically, he's a new character awaiting introduction, if he's not someone time traveling. Klaus from the past? LOL...

Then Hayate's brother. Again we don't have enough info. Hata depicted him with dark hair, while the person with Yukariko had light hair. He couldn't be trolling us like Used Can said, could he?

I've read a post on the Manga Fox forums how someone suggested that Nagi was born in the RG and whatnot.. I don't recall it. Reading those forums makes my head hurt. Too many one sentence replies. Anywayz, I'll apply my own theory to it, if I'm not just saying something similar that the person who came up with said.

The day after Hayate and Athena broke up, Hayate met with his "brother" who was out helping people like usual. I don't know where, but I've read that apparently it's suggested that he helped Yukariko once, too. Her trademark scarf was shown. The one that's wrapped around her gravestone. No idea if this is true, but anyway, say that after calming Hayate down he went on with his duties, or perhaps the next day when Athena went to sleep outside. Around that time he met Yukariko, and they somehow ended up in the RG (yeah, it's magic.. lol). It doesn't make any sense at all really, because Yukariko died normally outside of the RG, and she was buried th...

Okay, here I go...

She was buried? CORPSE WHERE!? Fucking Mikado is keeping her in a laboratory tube! Alive or dead, her body is still in good condition. Perhaps he slowed down her illness? Okay, this is madness! How about a Yukariko clone? She really did die, but now Mikado seeks Godlike powers to retrieve her soul? Hmhmhm...

Well, cloning would be pointless if he achieved such powers, since he could simply restore her entirely, if at all possible...

But it would be soooooo frekkin' epic to see a clone of her casually walk in Nagi's mansion. Oh God... the impact! Ahahahah!

Guess I'm influenced by Misaka here.. heh~

~☆~
Spoiler for Does HnG fit in here? What are your thoughts about it? Was this article mentioned before?:

Last edited by Rah; 2009-11-25 at 04:39.
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Old 2009-11-25, 04:39   Link #4987
Used Can
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Reading those forums makes my head hurt.
Same here mate. I tried checking out that place, and I felt a sudden urge of hitting my face against my monitor.

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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
I don't know where, but I've read that apparently it's suggested that he helped Yukariko once, too. Her trademark scarf was shown. The one that's wrapped around her gravestone. No idea if this is true
Yes, that was shown in chapter 187. Yukariko even spoke with Hayate's brother.

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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
She was buried? CORPSE WHERE!? Fucking Mikado is keeping her in a laboratory tube! Alive or dead, her body is still in good condition. Perhaps he slowed down her illness? Okay, this is madness! How about a Yukariko clone? She really did die, but now Mikado seeks Godlike powers to retrieve her soul? Hmhmhm...
And then Mikado was Mr. Freeze.
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Old 2009-11-25, 04:56   Link #4988
Rah
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Hmhmhm! I should pay more attention to details. But damn, Hayate's bro sure looks emo... SERIOUSLY EMO. I can't imagine him in a relationship at all. Okay, this is mainly prejudice on my part, but still... ..... ... *sigh*

No info...

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And then Mikado was Mr. Freeze.
Ehehehe~

Yes, yes, thought about that as well when I was typing that. But seriously! It's Mikado we're talking about! Hata could as well make a Batman or TAMnI parody about her. It would be such a shock to Nagi... man.. I'd love to see such a scene.

I mean... he already made a parody of Sakura possessed by Angra Mainyu. There shouldn't be a problem messing with her dead mom. ;_; He made... Nagi... wear.. that... thing....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >_<


Hata is evil.... :<


Oh yeah, and Machi looks like .... another person in 187. Hata should really experiment more before introducing new characters, so that he doesn't change their appearance too much later.
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Old 2009-11-25, 05:56   Link #4989
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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
Oh yeah, and Machi looks like .... another person in 187. Hata should really experiment more before introducing new characters, so that he doesn't change their appearance too much later.
It's quite normal that a character's apearance changes slightly after a few chapters as long as it resembles the original one. It just shows that the mangaka was improving on the base design or is improving on his/her drawings. If you read chapter one again, you'll see there are also some changes made to Hayate, Nagi and Maria. I actually like Machina better compared to his first appearance.
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Old 2009-11-25, 08:14   Link #4990
leoblack9
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Right now, I'm perfectly satisfied with Hayate suffering whatever the outcome is. I just want it tragic and Hata would've filled my day! Call me a sadist, masochist or whatever because I admit that I have a damned wierd taste...

I wonder if Hayate would ask an advice indirectly from one of them, this time from Maria. Though I see this as a choice for him I no longer long for the "Hayate indecisively asks an advice and gets ordered to do it" It's being repetitive now and it would make me lower my interest when it is again repeated here at one of the highest points of the arc.

Another choice for some unknown mysterious person to give him a tip. I admit I dislike stuff when lots of people butt in another person's conflicts (people he's close to would be fine, everyone else would just be plain barnacle).

Go Hayate! I want you to bleed profusely whatever the reason and suffer, it'll make me happy, especially if while in the process of trying to save whomever he wants.
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Old 2009-11-25, 15:29   Link #4991
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Well to get it out of my system now...I have another new theory.

It's not very likely but I'm holding onto it for now on the off-chance it's somehow right. It goes like this...EVERYONE in the cast is somehow related and Mikado is just screwing with them all. Seriously, half the cast is somehow connected to the Sanzen'ins already and the other half has missing or unknown parents. This is going to be a Neon Genesis Evangelion level Mind Screw here.

On a more rational note, I recall one of the episodes from the first season of the anime where Mikado held a ridiculously complicated test for Hayate. Following the same vein, what if the whole Athena conflict (perhaps not from 10 years ago but you never know) is all being engineered by Mikado to see if Hayate will remain true to Nagi. In the episode there was some offer and if Hayate took it he actually would have been fired and left with nothing, maybe it's the same now. We know Mikado is doing something here to see if Hayate will choose Athena, the question now is, could Athena actually be in on it? Doubt it, but it would be interesting. Then to add more Lelouch/Light parallels, what if Mikado is playing to Hayate's feelings for Athena and actually WANTS him to break the stone and betray Nagi? Majorly twisted but this is the same guy who went around in a Santa suit on Christmas Eve to screw with poor Hayate.

I bet Mikado is clever enough to have something prepared for either decision Hayate could make, Especially the third option we all know he'll really make. What I want to know is, why bother with all of it? It's gotta be something really good, like God-like power or wishes or something.

Side note: Risa mentioned that Hayate was weak. Is it just because he was depressed, or could his strength actually be drained from something? I mean really, he's never been this useless until now, something's up.

Well for now I just want to see if the Greece arc will actually have everyone smiling in the end like Nagi and Miki wanted.
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Old 2009-11-25, 17:05   Link #4992
Seitsuki
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Since Hayate's body of reinforced steel is due to the stone, it could be that since this is something concerning the stone (or heck foreshadowing its destruction) the power it grants Hayate is slowly weakening.
And have you ever considered that Mikado is really just a good guy who is through random tests like this trying to make Hayate stronger? Just throwing that out there xD
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Old 2009-11-25, 18:45   Link #4993
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Since Hayate's body of reinforced steel is due to the stone, it could be that since this is something concerning the stone (or heck foreshadowing its destruction) the power it grants Hayate is slowly weakening.
It was never said Hayate's powers were due to the stone. Athena used magic to cure his body (what's the origin of her magic, we don't know, but considering Isumi uses magic as well, I don't think it matters much), which, according to her, had suffered some wound in the past. She also said that she didn't give any abilities to Hayate, but she was awakening them.

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And have you ever considered that Mikado is really just a good guy who is through random tests like this trying to make Hayate stronger? Just throwing that out there xD
I think most people here have thought about that possibility, but brushed it off because it's terribly cliché. All the same, HnG is filled with those.
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Old 2009-11-25, 18:49   Link #4994
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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
Spoiler for AYUMIIINNNNNN!!!:


Spoiler for @zod:



Anyway, It's impossible to say at this point if she's still the same as 10 years ago, or if she changed. It might be true that she's just acting tough, because she's in such a state all the time. There's always someone that wants her money, she's worried as hell about herself (if she noticed Midas, perhaps for some other reason), about Hayate, her past is a constant reminder that trusting people ends in suffering, so she doesn't trust anyone..

Just for that you'd have to indeed put a helluva lot "barriers" around yourself, but it's not impossible that she really changed to what she is now. Perhaps she still trusted people after her incident with Hayate, but was betrayed so many times over the years that she just can't trust anyone, and her cold attitude comes naturally..

But now you're probably thinking that someone strong willed and proud as her possibly couldn't succumb to such a state. Well, Midas did possess her, and that's indisputable evidence that she was unstable from the start - I can't say otherwise, because being only 7, and in such a state is really... She sought shelter within a relationship, within love... from loneliness, from her despair, whatever it was / is, but got betrayed in the end..

Maybe after Hayate she found someone else? I'm not referring to another romantic relationship, but perhaps a "friend" / or "friends" over the time, that would console her, and keep her company, but only because of her wealth. In the end, she'd be betrayed again, and again, but she'd still put her trust into people, because being alone was just too painful.

So, she's either succumbed to it, or put a Damocles type barrier around herself (I'm referring to Geass)..

If it's the latter, I'd like to see put her faith into Hayate and his friends after she's saved from Midas (or perhaps still when possessed, after Hayate promises that he'll save her - if he doesn't intend to break the gem), and then at some crucial moment, when she's in trouble, and she's thinking about how she trusted Hayate and his friends, how she'll get betrayed again.. just then they come save her...

Or if you prefer, Hayate comes save her alone. But IMHO, it'd be a greater effect if there were more people. I want that kind of happy drama. I wanna see her let go everything that she's been holding onto for the past 10 years and more. She finally wasn't betrayed. Someone stood up for her, someone went through a lot to help her...

Ah, in short, I wanna see her cry her heart out about all the pain that she's been through, and then accept their friendship / become a member of the "Hayate is a baka that doesn't understand my feelings club", etc... ^_^
If Hata could pull off something like that, I'd be the first to applaud indeed...
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Old 2009-11-25, 22:53   Link #4995
Rah
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5000th reply! Nothing to add. ^_^;
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Old 2009-11-26, 00:40   Link #4996
Koroshiya_Kame_13
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Originally Posted by Teleutao View Post
Side note: Risa mentioned that Hayate was weak. Is it just because he was depressed, or could his strength actually be drained from something? I mean really, he's never been this useless until now, something's up.
She mentioned that he looked weak somehow. It's confusing but I think she's referring to him not being like his normal self. Nothing much from Hata's diary. Just reminded us that the Hat and the Ring represents Hayate's promise towards the girls, chapters starting from now will be linked and wondering what Nagi was thinking during the shopping spree.
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Old 2009-11-26, 01:16   Link #4997
Used Can
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Hata also said he thinks it'd be better if you didn't read the following chapters (up to 253) one by one, but in one go. His advise was to have them ordered, and delivered once chapter 253 is released.

So, fuck the spoilers, we won't be reading for 2 weeks; we'll read it just as Hata wants us to. Any objections? No? Good.
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Old 2009-11-26, 03:51   Link #4998
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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Hata also said he thinks it'd be better if you didn't read the following chapters (up to 253) one by one, but in one go. His advise was to have them ordered, and delivered once chapter 253 is released.

So, fuck the spoilers, we won't be reading for 2 weeks; we'll read it just as Hata wants us to. Any objections? No? Good.
I actually want to read it, since by telling us to wait until all 3 chapters are out he's literally telling us there'll be great suspense to follow for each chapter (at least I hope it is).
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Old 2009-11-26, 09:12   Link #4999
Teleutao
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So are we also going to stop posting? I don't want to come back in a few weeks to find 20 pages to go through.
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Old 2009-11-26, 09:58   Link #5000
Wolfnagi
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Man, you guys are killing me,
one day without loggin and already 251,
you guys should stop posting for a while,
I'm kinda out of money for internet so,
2 weeks, can wait
not so long, i think i might have enough credit in two weeks,
anyway, Nagi win, Athena lose.
The end. Hehehe

Edit:
Sorry, when a little crazy over there,
stress like hell,
anyway,
while you guys discussing about Athena,
Nagi's fans have already plan a counter-attack,
you guys see,
Hehehehehe
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Last edited by Wolfnagi; 2009-11-26 at 10:43.
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