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Old 2010-04-01, 09:25   Link #6581
zodanhko
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Mentar, I don't understand why you continuously rate Athena practically on every of her doings. Quite frankly, your dislike of her is as deep as hell itself, so there is really no point in giving her some positive points here and there; it won't change your view of her. Instead of ALWAYS, quite literally, belittled Athena with your perspective to challenge A-tan fans which will end up in a pointless arguments, why don't you just provide positive facts about Hina so people will love her more?
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Old 2010-04-01, 09:35   Link #6582
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Mentar, I don't understand why you continuously rate Athena practically on every of her doings. Quite frankly, your dislike of her is as deep as hell itself, so there is really point in giving her some positive points here and there; it won't change your view of her.
Oh, but that's not true. In fact, especially the discussions with musouka and Game8910 have been and still are very fruitful, and they DID manage to alter my opinion quite a bit. Maybe I _am_ looking for someone to convince me not to be angry at her. But sorry, at the moment I am.

Quote:
Instead of ALWAYS, quite literally, belittled Athena with your perspective to challenge A-tan fans which will end up in a pointless arguments, why don't you just provide positive facts about Hina so people will love her more?
Because Hina hasn't been in the position to do much recently? Besides, she doesn't need campaigning, she's well-liked enough.
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Old 2010-04-01, 09:42   Link #6583
Rah
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Nooooooo!!

zoddy-tan, don't reply that way! You'll provoke a reaction! And then it will fall like Dominoes!!

Does honestly everyone care more about the opinions of others, than the characters and manga itself? O_O

Wow, I guess I'm the only one who lost the ability to care? I don't mind though.

*sneezes*

Woah! Who wants me dead?! O_O

*paranoia levels surge*


Anyway, who believes that Hina got her hopes up after what Hayate told her, and will go for another shot? But perhaps she won't. We don't yet know what exactly she thinks of Athena, but if she considers her to be better than herself, then isn't it pointless to try and win him over, if someone of her caliber couldn't? Well, it's true that many other factors also apply, besides her subjective outlook.

Athena basically created a clean slate scenario, though it's very much implied by Hata that Athena and Nagi play the main roles by now. Ah... *discouraged 200%*

What chances do the others even have? Dammit...

But now it at least feels a little more like a race, right? How about another Izumi arc! Yes! We need more cuteness, and I wanna see her confess to Hayate by mistake!

Then, some time later, Hayate is a drug addict suffering from some incurable disease, because he's tormented by the choices he has to make. He has to turn down 4+ girls, and harem is not an option!

AHhaHAhAhaha, oh what if he became an alcoholic? A violent one at that! YEAAAHHH!!!
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Old 2010-04-01, 09:51   Link #6584
Arabesque
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Mentar, I don't understand why you continuously rate Athena practically on every of her doings.
To be honest, some also overvalue her deeds as well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Maybe I _am_ looking for someone to convince me not to be angry at her. But sorry, at the moment I am.
''If you look for the bad in people you will definitely find it''

I think that you are reading the scene expecting the worst from Athena, so you can't see it except from the worst possible light i.e. it's a challenge to a clueless Nagi. Now, before that I think you need to ask yourself ''what did Hata want to do here? What did he want to get across to the readers?'' Did he really want to show Athena put forth a challenge to Nagi, or did he want to give her leeway to come back and ''stay in the race'' so to speak, all the while he managing to make things come full circle with her meeting Nagi and thanking her? I say this because you even took her ''thanks'' as being artificial and not truthful, which is really strange conclusion to come with out the whole meeting, especially since that contradicts what she done not so long ago.
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Old 2010-04-01, 09:53   Link #6585
zodanhko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Oh, but that's not true. In fact, especially the discussions with musouka and Game8910 have been and still are very fruitful, and they DID manage to alter my opinion quite a bit. Maybe I _am_ looking for someone to convince me not to be angry at her. But sorry, at the moment I am.
All I can say is your perceptions of her will not change ever. And you probably won't find anyone since it's really a tough job, and I doubt anyone would bother with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Because Hina hasn't been in the position to do much recently? Besides, she doesn't need campaigning, she's well-liked enough.
Her heroic deeds or something, doesn't matter...You like her right? That shouldn't be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Rah View Post
But now it at least feels a little more like a race, right? How about another Izumi arc! Yes! We need more cuteness, and I wanna see her confess to Hayate by mistake!
No, no, I want a Maria arc...She's too behind, lately. Give me some fan-service. (Jk)

Last edited by zodanhko; 2010-04-01 at 10:11.
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Old 2010-04-01, 10:18   Link #6586
hinakatbklyn
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Concerning Athena's change of heart, I don't think the problem is the fact that she had a change of heart (who doesn't change their mind?). The fact that she and Hayate had their farewell (a tearful one at that), and one or two chapters later, changes her mind? That may have been too soon. One volume, two volumes later, I would of thought she had a legitimate change of heart.

Instead of confessing to Hayate, Hinagiku let him settle his unfinished business with Athena and his battle with Midas? What would pro and anti Hina fans say if she changed her mind and decided to help Hayate directly rather than use the hero suit to hide her true idenity, or rather what would of happened if after Hayate saved Athena Hina decided to get between the two or admit her true feelings? I'm sure there would be an uproar as well.
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Old 2010-04-01, 10:30   Link #6587
Rah
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@zod

Heh, you prefer Maria over Izumi, eh? Interesting...

I think your wish will come true soon enough, because Athena is returning to Japan, and after all she has a history with Maria. Perhaps they were rivals in school? Who knows? But I'm sure that would bring up some nice memories of their rivalry if so.. ^___^

@hina

Yeah, well, Hata had to do that in order to continue the series. If they became a couple, then basically everything else would have collapsed, so this is like a soft reset. Seeing how things turned out now, this was necessary to preserve the "harem" of sorts...

Now everyone still has a chance. Athena will participate as well, but Hayate seems to have seriously given up on her, while she had a different plan in mind. Basically, she thought of giving him up for now, and then when she feels like it, picking him back up (that fickleness is really cute~ ^___^), but Hayate thought that it was a real goodbye, since she said that she won't be returning to Japan with him, so he gave up. He even questioned if he'll be able to love someone like that again.

I wonder what will his reaction be now if he meets her? Will Athena attack openly, or will she stalk him? Well, I'm most interested in what Hina will do, and how will Nagi get out of her predicament at the moment, but perhaps those issues won't even arise just yet. I believe that comedy will return for a brief moment.

Or is Hata in a rush to conclude it? Honestly, does he believe that he can make a better manga than HnG? Well, he is friends with Ken, right (guy who made Love Hina & Negima)? Perhaps he can become awesome like him, and create a likewise good series after finishing one?
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Old 2010-04-01, 10:44   Link #6588
WildArms
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*siiiiigh* NOW athena is really going back to japan...? seriously this is becoming weird, it seems japanese fans got mad when Athena said she wasnt going back... this reminds me of naruto ""spoiler alert of naruto if youha vent finished pain's arc!""
Spoiler for NARUTO:
END SPOILER.
Why do they want to ruin HnG... freaking word of business, but well, if i was in his place, i would do the same, is hard to get your manga published, but i still.... dont know why they have to ruin it so much -.-
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Old 2010-04-01, 10:49   Link #6589
Wolfnagi
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So A-tan going to Japan.......
that sucks.........
and Hina just being left alone,
and Ojou gonna need my help in this one
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Old 2010-04-01, 11:05   Link #6590
Rah
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Well, yeah. Hata is quite interesting, isn't he? Perhaps he even messed up a little there, but nonetheless even if the execution of events wasn't flawless, he didn't break the statement of "Eternal love for Athena & Eternal protection for Nagi".

Though it can be interpreted many different ways, I still believe that he'll end it like that. Dunno how he's gonna wrap it all up, but IMHO it's the most likely ending. Still, we talked about this many months ago how he's easily influenced by his fans. He might change it... dunno how to feel about that, but it's not like we'd know if he changed it because his fans willed for it, or because he himself wanted to do so.

Well, whatever...

Oh, and apparently there won't be a normal chapter this week, because he's taking time off to think things through. That scene of Sakuya bathing, and Hayate commenting about something is expected to be released this week. It's a short mini-chapter, you know... those...

Limited!, or something... Dunno, perhaps it's not even Limited!, but... eh.. dunno. We'll see~ ^___^

Still, his assistants sure exaggerated a little with her breasts. I wonder who's truly drawing HnG now. Hata or his team? It does seem that their sizes fluctuate a little bit too much. Or... perhaps I'm mistaken.

Sakuya is a growing girl, and a super well endowed one at that. Perhaps she's still growing? LOL... dammit.. I pity Nagi now.. lol...
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Old 2010-04-01, 11:06   Link #6591
Used Can
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Honestly guys, I really don't see why you've got to do this thing almost every week. Your arguments go basically this way:

A: I don't like your character.
B: OMG, why don't you like my character?
A: OMG, why don't you dislike that character the same way I do?
B: Why don't you like that character the way I do?!!

Ad infinitum

Honestly, cannot you guys just agree to disagree? Fuck, it shames me to think I used to be part of this argument.
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Old 2010-04-01, 11:08   Link #6592
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
''If you look for the bad in people you will definitely find it''

I think that you are reading the scene expecting the worst from Athena, so you can't see it except from the worst possible light i.e. it's a challenge to a clueless Nagi.
I see the point you're trying to make. Maybe you are right, and I'm projecting personal experiences here to Athena's disadvantage. I won't discount the possibility. I see all the same signs from an earlier escapade in my life in which a very Athena'ish girl managed to successfully wreck the life of one of my friends. She was an extreme drama queen full of grand gestures and great-hearted decisions, and whenever she made them, she completely believed in them. I'm convinced that she was fully genuine - at the time she made them. And then, in no time thereafter, she would revert to her old roots and rationalize her changes just the way I see several people do it in here. But seeing the disastrous eventual outcome (as predicted by me and denied in A-tan-shipper-like manner by my friend until it was too late), it sure gives me an eerie feeling of deja vu.

But you don't see it as a challenge? Because that's one of the few agreements the A-tan shippers and me seemed to have. What would you think about Athena if it _were_ a challenge?

Quote:
Now, before that I think you need to ask yourself ''what did Hata want to do here? What did he want to get across to the readers?'' Did he really want to show Athena put forth a challenge to Nagi, or did he want to give her leeway to come back and ''stay in the race'' so to speak, all the while he managing to make things come full circle with her meeting Nagi and thanking her?
That was my initial interpretation before I saw the execution of this chapter, as you may recall. On the meta-level, it would make alot of sense indeed. Maybe I _am_ overreacting to certain detail observations, but they really make me sour on this whole deal.

Quote:
I say this because you even took her ''thanks'' as being artificial and not truthful, which is really strange conclusion to come with out the whole meeting, especially since that contradicts what she done not so long ago.
Why the keep-the-precious-ring-give-Nagi-the-worthless-shell? Why the haughty "next time I might not hand it/him back"? Why the coy smirk towards Machina, followed by the decision to return to Japan not later but _now_?

The chapter could have easily been made into the meta-message which you outlined (and I expected even after the spoilers). But fact is that it was told with strong diverging connotations, wouldn't you agree?
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Old 2010-04-01, 11:12   Link #6593
chronoxii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildArms View Post
*siiiiigh* NOW athena is really going back to japan...? seriously this is becoming weird, it seems japanese fans got mad when Athena said she wasnt going back... this reminds me of naruto ""spoiler alert of naruto if youha vent finished pain's arc!""
Spoiler for NARUTO:
END SPOILER.
Why do they want to ruin HnG... freaking word of business, but well, if i was in his place, i would do the same, is hard to get your manga published, but i still.... dont know why they have to ruin it so much -.-
weeeelll kakashi was revived along with all those who died (most of the village)
With regards to hata, he did quite an awesome job in creating a new character after 150 chapters and getting so many fans to 'jump ship'. It is not logical to take a-tan out of the story as there are some plot points involved with her and also because it will cause an uproar.

anyway i used to like hina but a-tan won me over...completely. so much that my mum thought i was crazy when i raged after reading 265 lol. oh well 266 managed to satiate me. i sense happy end ^_^
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Old 2010-04-01, 11:23   Link #6594
Rah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Honestly guys, I really don't see why you've got to do this thing almost every week. Your arguments go basically this way:

A: I don't like your character.
B: OMG, why don't you like my character?
A: OMG, why don't you dislike that character the same way I do?
B: Why don't you like that character the way I do?!!

Ad infinitum

Honestly, cannot you guys just agree to disagree? Fuck, it shames me to think I used to be part of this argument.
That's what I'm trying to fix. Help me out here, lol~

Just reply to my posts, and try to put it back on track. Or start a topic of your own. I'd be happy to reply, however uninterested I may be (lol).

Just to stop the senseless quarreling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chronoxii View Post
weeeelll kakashi was revived along with all those who died (most of the village)
With regards to hata, he did quite an awesome job in creating a new character after 150 chapters and getting so many fans to 'jump ship'. It is not logical to take a-tan out of the story as there are some plot points involved with her and also because it will cause an uproar.

anyway i used to like hina but a-tan won me over...completely. so much that my mum thought i was crazy when i raged after reading 265 lol. oh well 266 managed to satiate me. i sense happy end ^_^
You should spoiler tag that. ^___^

And don't worry about Athena. Her "ship" is a frekkin' nuclear submarine! IT CAN'T SINK!! WHAHAhaHAhAhAhahA!!!

But don't just give up on Hina either. She's still a very cool character, and really likable, right? You just changed your preference to who you want to end up with Hayate. Did I guess right? No? You really don't like Hina now?

... :'<

*sob*

Naawww.. just messin'~ ^___^


Anyway, I think that it's fine if Hayate ends up with ANY of the girls. They're all cool their own way, and none of them are truly evil, or anything (y'know, like they could be a bad influence, or trouble his life, or... I dunno.. get in some bad situation, or something... they're all good..).

Well, except for Aika. I don't know about her yet. She seems a bit peculiar... hmm...

I did predict that she'd be the next enemy, but who knows, eh? I wonder what she's seeking. Hmm...
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Old 2010-04-01, 11:29   Link #6595
Used Can
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post
he didn't break the statement of "Eternal love for Athena & Eternal protection for Nagi".
Did Hata ever say anything like that? I don't remember reading something like that in his blog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post
Though it can be interpreted many different ways, I still believe that he'll end it like that. Dunno how he's gonna wrap it all up, but IMHO it's the most likely ending. Still, we talked about this many months ago how he's easily influenced by his fans. He might change it... dunno how to feel about that, but it's not like we'd know if he changed it because his fans willed for it, or because he himself wanted to do so.
I wouldn't be surprised if Athena's appearance in 266 was due to the fans. Somehow, I get the impression he planned on having her show up later, but due to fan-anger he had to have her show up in this one, to basically tell the fans: "She's still in the manga, chill-out!".

Anyway, unless I read it wrong, in this week's entry, Hata said in his blog the girl in the last page of 266 seems to be a new character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post
Still, his assistants sure exaggerated a little with her breasts. I wonder who's truly drawing HnG now. Hata or his team? It does seem that their sizes fluctuate a little bit too much. Or... perhaps I'm mistaken.

Sakuya is a growing girl, and a super well endowed one at that. Perhaps she's still growing? LOL... dammit.. I pity Nagi now.. lol...
Hopefully, Sakuya will be the main female again in this side-story.
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Old 2010-04-01, 11:32   Link #6596
Clarste
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On the ring-box, I figured it was an indirect message to Hayate. There's really no meaning at all in Nagi getting it, other than the fact that Athena can't face Hayate again so soon. I can't even see a malicious meaning behind the box, because it's just meaningless to Nagi overall. It can only mean something if Hayate sees it someday.
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Old 2010-04-01, 11:34   Link #6597
Used Can
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I think, another way of taking that scenes, rather than it being a message from Athena to either Nagi or Hayate, it's also (or mainly) a message from Hata to the fans saying Athena is still in this story, and she hasn't given up on her feelings for Hayate.

If anyone other than me checked the 2ch Hayate threads after chapter 265, I'm sure they'll understand what I mean, more than anyone else.
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Old 2010-04-01, 11:35   Link #6598
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Quote:
*siiiiigh* NOW athena is really going back to japan...? seriously this is becoming weird, it seems japanese fans got mad when Athena said she wasnt going back...
I don't think the time frame quite works for this assumption. Manga authors are always a couple chapters ahead of what gets released, and 266 would have already been drawn by the time 265 was out.

edit: Tweaking 266 because of the outrage to 264 is possible, I suppose.

I do think the turn-around was kind of sudden. I can see why, its the last chapter of the Golden Week Arc that's already dragged on forever, might as well tie up all the loose ends and such, but even so...

This makes it easy to stick Athena in comedic competition with the other girls, although I do think her days as a serious romantic contender are effectively over. I expect she'll keep chasing Hayate but it'll be played for laughs now instead of drama. I won't bother to argue the point because it's useless.

I like this manga a lot, but there is something about the last few chapters that left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth and I can't quite pinpoint why. It's not like any particular event irked me that much or anything, so...eh.

Possibly it's because Athena's turn around was too fast, but I'm not sure it would have been any better if Hata had waited, because then it would have seemed out of nowhere and...meh.
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Old 2010-04-01, 11:37   Link #6599
Rah
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Oh, I think you're right there, Used Can nii-chan~

I don't know where I got that, but I think that someone phrased it that way, and I just picked it up. It's from this page.

Spoiler for Clicky~:


Notice where the text is? Over Nagi it's who he wants to protect the most, and over Athena who he cares for the most. Well... it's still rather.. inconclusive.. perhaps..?

But it is a color page, and I guess that notches up its significance at least a little bit, right?

What do you think?

And you believe that Hata is fearful of fans, heh? But isn't HnG, like.. really popular? Or at least not somewhere in the middle, or the bottom. I think it's quite high up the charts actually. Well, this is just me saying stuff without any facts.. assumptions, guesses, short term memory, etc.. hehehe~

Oh, and would you prefer that I quoted you, or is answering this way fine? Quoting is such a pain... ^___^;;
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Old 2010-04-01, 11:42   Link #6600
madmac
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Quote:
I think, another way of taking that scenes, rather than it being a message from Athena to either Nagi or Hayate, it's also (or mainly) a message from Hata to the fans saying Athena is still in this story, and she hasn't given up on her feelings for Hayate.
The whole ring box thing was clumsily done because of the fact that it really was meaningless to Nagi and doesn't have any clear interpretation, but this is probably the best way to look at it.

Hata also posted something in his blog about Athena this week along the lines of "About Athena...just wait and see.".

As far as the eternal "which girl" question, when it comes down to it, Hayate and Nagi are the main characters. If Hata wants Nagi to have a romantic ending she will, and it doesn't matter how many rivals she has. If he has something else in mind for her then you should be looking for the girl with enough development to make that ending seem natural. Crack pairings happen for secondary characters but almost never for the leads.

Right now, I don't see any girl with a clear lead even if you remove Nagi from the equation. Athena was almost there but she took a nose dive after 264-265 and it's unlikely she'll ever really come back from that. Maria has largely been removed already and I love Ayumu to death but likable rival has been her role from the beginning and I don't see that ever changing. Hina I think has regained her second place position from Athena but I don't really see it there for her yet either.

Really, no girl has enough development to support an ending with Hayate at this stage. Even Nagi with the odds stacked in her favor will need a lot of story development to make the ending work. In short, just read the story and don't worry about it so much. We're a long ways from things coming to an end.

Last edited by madmac; 2010-04-01 at 11:56.
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