AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Hayate no Gotoku

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-12-28, 22:43   Link #7541
musouka
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Could it be you're confusing me with someone?
I must have. Sorry about that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Well, compared to Athena's violent tantrums
Do you mean back when she was six years old? I haven't seen any tantrums from her lately. And I've got to say it seems sort of odd to hold a six year old kid to the same standard as a sixteen year old girl...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Hina has been the epitome of tact and consideration
Hina's a sweet girl most of the time, but she also gets pretty huffy when Hayate doesn't react the way she wants him too. All you have to do is look at the end of the mini-arc where he's trying to move Tama to the new house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
... we'll see if Athena has learned anything in the meantime.
She seems to have learned it's better to manipulate than overtly try to force someone to do what she wants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Tricky situations are fine with me. I hope that Hata is more creative about the path he is sketching for Hina this time - because, believe it or not, I'm a bit tired of the powerless-embarrassed-fleeing Hina too.
As madmac said, the way things are right now Hina is perfectly fine as a character...as long as she and Hayate aren't in the same scene. That's not to say she and Hayate never have good scenes together (the one that instantly springs into my mind is the scene in the Greece arc where she gets that hilarious "angry" look on her face because she doesn't want Hayate to know she's happy that he acknowledged her femininity), only that they tend to follow a set pattern that's gotten old to the point of unfunny.

If Hata has something more exciting planned for Hina than her typical blush and flounce, I really am all for it. (And since Athena won't be back to normal for three months--aka eternity in HnG time--she's been defanged as a romantic rival for the moment, so it's not like there's a problem there.)
__________________
雨の日も晴れの日も
いつの日も愛してた
それだけは 今もまだ
ずっと変りはしない
musouka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-28, 22:57   Link #7542
Bastion_Arcion
*boot to the head*
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: existence
Send a message via AIM to Bastion_Arcion Send a message via MSN to Bastion_Arcion
Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Hina's a sweet girl most of the time, but she also gets pretty huffy when Hayate doesn't react the way she wants him too. All you have to do is look at the end of the mini-arc where he's trying to move Tama to the new house.
*cough-cough*
My mind might be starting to fog over, but wasn't Hina the one who sent Hayate to go confess to Athena?
That couldn't have been anything close to what she wanted to hear, and yet she reacted with grace to admit defeat in romance.
Probably nothing she does during the entirely of that arc could have been something she wanted to do, and yet she's willing to do so to let Hayate have what he wanted.

She even requests that he take her hand when they go look out over the city. She's not forcing anything for herself.
__________________
Arcion's is open for business. How would you like your hare-brained scheme?

Would people quit throwing my faith in humanity being intelligent a shovel?
... Apparently there are now people in existence who are unable to use a shovel.

Programming today is a race between programmers trying to create better idiot-proof programs, and the world creating better idiots.
The world is winning.. by leaps and bounds.

Body Language and Intonation can convey large amounts of information with a single word.
Bastion_Arcion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-28, 23:07   Link #7543
musouka
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
My mind might be starting to fog over, but wasn't Hina the one who sent Hayate to go confess to Athena?
Yep, she was. We also didn't see any tantrums when Athena sent Hayate back to Nagi, so clearly she is an amazing angelic character that never ever fought Hayate over trusting his parents instead of her, right?
__________________
雨の日も晴れの日も
いつの日も愛してた
それだけは 今もまだ
ずっと変りはしない
musouka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-29, 00:31   Link #7544
Tom Bombadil
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Spoiler of 302 is out.

Spoiler for spoiler text:


Spoiler pics is also out on Baidu.

Spoiler for Hayate:
__________________
Tom Bombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-29, 01:30   Link #7545
Bastion_Arcion
*boot to the head*
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: existence
Send a message via AIM to Bastion_Arcion Send a message via MSN to Bastion_Arcion
Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Yep, she was. We also didn't see any tantrums when Athena sent Hayate back to Nagi, so clearly she is an amazing angelic character that never ever fought Hayate over trusting his parents instead of her, right?
O.o Eh?
Weren't we just talking about Hinagiku? How did you get a statement about Athena out of it?

I was simply pointing out that as recently as the last full arc ago, Hina wasn't acting the way you were saying you didn't like.
__________________
Arcion's is open for business. How would you like your hare-brained scheme?

Would people quit throwing my faith in humanity being intelligent a shovel?
... Apparently there are now people in existence who are unable to use a shovel.

Programming today is a race between programmers trying to create better idiot-proof programs, and the world creating better idiots.
The world is winning.. by leaps and bounds.

Body Language and Intonation can convey large amounts of information with a single word.
Bastion_Arcion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-29, 01:42   Link #7546
musouka
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
O.o Eh?
Weren't we just talking about Hinagiku? How did you get a statement about Athena out of it?
I don't actually believe Athena is an angel. I'm just pointing out that someone's actions aren't overwritten by other actions. They're all a part of the character. We also have scenes of Hina attacking Hayate because he was late/made a joke she didn't like/ect, so I just don't think Hina is a good example in general of someone that keeps her temper out of understanding and love. That's because this is a slapstick comedy, though, not because Hina is evil.
__________________
雨の日も晴れの日も
いつの日も愛してた
それだけは 今もまだ
ずっと変りはしない
musouka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-29, 01:56   Link #7547
Bastion_Arcion
*boot to the head*
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: existence
Send a message via AIM to Bastion_Arcion Send a message via MSN to Bastion_Arcion
Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
I don't actually believe Athena is an angel. I'm just pointing out that someone's actions aren't overwritten by other actions. They're all a part of the character. We also have scenes of Hina attacking Hayate because he was late/made a joke she didn't like/ect, so I just don't think Hina is a good example in general of someone that keeps her temper out of understanding and love. That's because this is a slapstick comedy, though, not because Hina is evil.
And again I point out that Hinagiku is a tsundere, it's part of the character framework she's been given. Her attacking someone for doing something she doesn't like is actually rare, as well as something she's trying to grow out of, and actually doing pretty well at it considering she's only been trying for the last few months.
It's actually implied that she does the best at this when confronted by Miki, because she's gotten so used to Miki pushing her buttons, which Miki does for her own enjoyment.

It's all up to a matter of taste I suppose.
__________________
Arcion's is open for business. How would you like your hare-brained scheme?

Would people quit throwing my faith in humanity being intelligent a shovel?
... Apparently there are now people in existence who are unable to use a shovel.

Programming today is a race between programmers trying to create better idiot-proof programs, and the world creating better idiots.
The world is winning.. by leaps and bounds.

Body Language and Intonation can convey large amounts of information with a single word.

Last edited by Bastion_Arcion; 2010-12-29 at 02:50.
Bastion_Arcion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-29, 02:48   Link #7548
ridgezipline
Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmac View Post
(I wouldn't say I'm personally invested in Athena, so I don't really care if she's "likable" or not.)
ditto. same for athena, hina and the other girls. it's hard to argue who's better, who's kinder, who's more considerate unless it is stated flat out by the author himself.

plus, each girl expresses their 'love' for hayate in different ways o_o; it's a matter of picking which you prefer ^^;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
O.o What?

Athena was implied to have been locked in the RG even before Hayate had gotten in. If Hayate had actually gotten a mortal injury, she wouldn't have been able to go get help.

And it was the training (including the kicking him in the stomach hard enough to make him complain) that I was talking about, not specifically when Midas was trying to kill him. If Hayate had gotten incapacitated during any of it, Athena would have been the only one able to help.
Also, Yanderes are known for sometimes killing the ones they love because they didn't get chosen, just out of spite.

I'm not trying to create a worst-case scene for Athena, just pointing out things.
I really wish you'd stop trying to paint me as an Athena-hater. There's only one character in HnG that I actually dislike.
._. i do understand your point. but i guess you don't find athena-hayate-slapstick-duo-act funny. -.-;;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
*cough-cough*
She even requests that he take her hand when they go look out over the city. She's not forcing anything for herself.
i love hina in the first 100 chapters she was in.

like madmac said, her char seems to be getting less interesting as time goes by. chiharu in the handful of chapters she was in is more interesting than a full-blown hina-confessing-to-hayate arc -.-;
ridgezipline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-29, 17:39   Link #7549
Heiwatsuki
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
omfg i love the development of the story now. Hayate living with Hinagiku and Athena will be hilarious. Though as with others, i feel as if hinagiku should confess already lol. But i wont get uninterested in her character. She will always remain one of my favorites .

Quote:
I believe that Athena already blackmailed Hina, from the spoiler, to stay at Nagi's place. Although it may be a "wrong doing," I'm looking forward see to it. It's unfortunate for Hina that she's kept in the dark by Hayate, Athena, and Aiki
More like a bait rather than a blackmail lol
__________________
Heiwatsuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-03, 10:07   Link #7550
Eleutheria
旅行癖
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Read 302. I think it is no spoiler to say that Hayate's talent of putting his foot in his mouth, is second to none ^^
__________________
ロースクールに入ったから、アニメはもはやこれまでかな
日本語のレベルも段々退歩してるし~
Eleutheria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-03, 20:54   Link #7551
xellos2099
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
I just finish reading 302
Spoiler for Spoiler:


Then again Hayate can be VERY female incentive sometime. Hayate was wondering to himself what did he do wrong and the narrator say " EVERYTHING"

Last edited by xellos2099; 2011-01-03 at 21:29.
xellos2099 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-04, 03:05   Link #7552
Tom Bombadil
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
A great chapter. It is not the first time Hayate said something that are come out the wrong way and totally misunderstood. That how the whole story started. But I found that Hina cave in too easily. I was expecting more drama. Now let's see how Hayate is going to make Nagi to approve all that. (I hope he doesn't give the ring to her.)
__________________
Tom Bombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-04, 04:13   Link #7553
xellos2099
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
A great chapter. It is not the first time Hayate said something that are come out the wrong way and totally misunderstood. That how the whole story started. But I found that Hina cave in too easily. I was expecting more drama. Now let's see how Hayate is going to make Nagi to approve all that. (I hope he doesn't give the ring to her.)
Well... Mini Athena has Hina's weak spot. I wonder will Athena eventually get jealous of Hayate serving Hina.
xellos2099 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-04, 05:14   Link #7554
Mentar
Sore wa himitsu desu!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 45
Usually I've come to hate these "Hayate trampling over Hina's feelings who then gets mad and runs away" chapters, but I have to say that this one was very enjoyable for a change. And it showed an interesting general... well... fundamental "defect" in Hayate's personality in a most enlightening way.

What Hayate is lacking is the concept of independent wishes and desires. A feeling of an independent self, who has interests of his own. Throughout his life, he was conditioned to submit to the whims and wishes of others: His parents', then Athena's, then Nagi's. It doesn't bother him, that's the way he's been brought up, that's the way he lived. However, the concept of self, the concept of having desires and wishes of your own, is alien to him.

This is why he is so extremely insensitive at times. He expects orders that he's able to execute, and he fails when these orders aren't given, and it would rather be his own task to _discern_ the wishes/intentions/desires of others by himself. He doesn't know how to do that. So, when Yukiji told him (in general) how to get a girl to move in with you, he rather executed it by the letter, not the spirit - because he doesn't UNDERSTAND the spirit, he has no concept of it. This part of him has been crippled in the past.

So, if the task is to profess love to a girl and propose to her, he will do it. It's clear at his last panel when he's losing consciousness that he doesn't comprehend what he did, and why he failed. He doesn't "get" love at all.

That also explains some other observations of the past. Why he thought that after the reunion Athena "dumped" him where it's plainly obvious that she didn't. He simply didn't "get" it at all. But Athena ordered him away, so due to his conditioning he complied. This is also why Athena manages to deal with him much better than Hina or Nagi: She says very explicitly what she wants. In comparison, Nagi and especially Hina fail to do so when it comes to their romantic intentions, so naturally he acts completely clueless. Compare that to situations of danger, when Hina and Hayate cooperate naturally and perfectly (see rescuing Nagi/Ayumu in the temple or the final battle of the Greece arc), because there she's decisively telling him what to do, too.

Until Hayate develops this concept of "self", there won't be genuine eye-level romance in the show. Even in the Greece arc climax, Hayate's desires were very raw and basic: He wanted to SAVE Athena, and he wanted to APOLOGIZE to her. It also offers a good explanation why he had to ponder so much before he concluded that he probably "loved" her. Real romantic love includes a selfish element, the desire to have the other for oneself, and this selfish aspect is crippled in him. He didn't "feel" it this way.

As for the rest, I don't think that Hina caved too easily. She had already generally accepted the idea when she was by herself, before Hayate came and botched things again. So, giving in to Athena's coercion was pretty understandable in my book.

Last edited by Mentar; 2011-01-04 at 08:11. Reason: typo fix
Mentar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-04, 11:35   Link #7555
Bastion_Arcion
*boot to the head*
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: existence
Send a message via AIM to Bastion_Arcion Send a message via MSN to Bastion_Arcion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Spoiler:
You know... I think you're right. He doesn't do things for himself, at least since Athena's influence. His wish is a simple one, 3L(D?)K, seems to be the only thing he actually wanted for himself.
Even saving Izumi when they were kids he didn't really do on his own volition, it wasn't until he remembered Athena's teaching that he turned around and fought off Lucky for her, and when he's protecting Nagi, it's because he's acting as her butler, not for his actual personal wish.
When he was working, during the ten years after the separation from Athena and the beginning of the story, he was either working for his parents, and thus under their orders, or they had probably ordered him to get a job (or he had realized that they wouldn't support him, and thus needed to make his own money).

What Hinagiku told him, about never being happy if he's not a little bit selfish, will probably be big when he realizes what she intended.
__________________
Arcion's is open for business. How would you like your hare-brained scheme?

Would people quit throwing my faith in humanity being intelligent a shovel?
... Apparently there are now people in existence who are unable to use a shovel.

Programming today is a race between programmers trying to create better idiot-proof programs, and the world creating better idiots.
The world is winning.. by leaps and bounds.

Body Language and Intonation can convey large amounts of information with a single word.
Bastion_Arcion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-06, 05:30   Link #7556
Sean Gaffney
Nomad of the Time Streams
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 41
A quick note, which I'm posting in here as it mentions Athena: a recent chapter of Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei (234) has Koji Kumeta mocking the harem manga fans. He uses Hayate as an example, showing a fan saying "I'm gonna become anti-Hinagiku and become a fan of A-tan!" As Nozomu notes,. "So this means the author will come out even in the end?"

In case some of you are unaware, Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei makes many, many references to Hayate. Hata was Kumeta's assistant on Katteni Kaizo before Kumeta left Shogakukan. When Kumeta moved to Kodansha, Hata stayed and created Hayate... which is considerably more popular than Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei. This fact is mocked by Kumeta in a self-deprecating sort of way in many, many chapters of his manga.
Sean Gaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-06, 11:58   Link #7557
GlassesLady
dat apple
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: I'm aliens
Oh god, I'm going to have to find that chapter now. Is SZS being scanlated still?
__________________
Let me show you my Pokemans.

My Pokemans; let me show you them.
GlassesLady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-06, 16:23   Link #7558
Trans-Fat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Well i was finally able to find a scanlated ch302 and I think it is continuing.

Question: where in the timeframe is this story at right now? Ayumu's birthday passed not too long ago, so I am guessing that the timeframe isn't too far off from her birthday. Also, has the timeline in the story exceed 1 year already?
Trans-Fat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-06, 17:37   Link #7559
GDB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trans-Fat View Post
Question: where in the timeframe is this story at right now? Ayumu's birthday passed not too long ago, so I am guessing that the timeframe isn't too far off from her birthday. Also, has the timeline in the story exceed 1 year already?
I don't believe it's even June yet. Golden week runs through part of the first week of May, and after that it showed a June 12th scene which we haven't arrived at yet. We had Ayumu's Birthday of May 15th, and it hasn't been long since then.

The story started December 24th, so we haven't even gone 6 months yet most likely.
GDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-06, 17:50   Link #7560
madmac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
I don't believe it's even June yet. Golden week runs through part of the first week of May, and after that it showed a June 12th scene which we haven't arrived at yet. We had Ayumu's Birthday of May 15th, and it hasn't been long since then.

The story started December 24th, so we haven't even gone 6 months yet most likely.
The Convention was on Sunday May 22nd. Chapter 300 started the following day, May 23rd, but it's night now, so it'll probably be May 24th by next chapter.

Still about three weeks to go until we get to that June 12th scene, so it'll probably take most of this year to get there, knowing Hata...
madmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
comedy, shounen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.