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View Poll Results: Kanon - 2006 - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10 117 66.48%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 38 21.59%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 7.39%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 2.84%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.14%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.57%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 176. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-05-19, 22:08   Link #161
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All Things Come To An End

I will now finish the catching up and then go outside and watch the fireworks (Hooray for Victoria Day):

Spoiler:


Plot/Character: 4/5. Everybody and story was phenomonal except for Yuuichi. I don't want to get into the details, but I just was not feeling his part at all. I also felt they could have done a little bit more with Makoto's last moments rather than just have her vanish. It wasn't perfect, but it was very good and I even got a little teary eyed during some of the more touching scenes of Makoto (though I didn't cry at all, what does that say about me though?)

Animation: 5/5. The animation budget was used in the right place in my opinion. Just looking at the clearing and watching the wind blow the grass blades across toward to horizon (how often do we see that kind of detail in a show). No messed up faces and some very nice scenes that left me quite impressed.

Music: 5/5. Every piece of music was used to it's fullest and was used in the right place. I can't say anything more other than I think the BGM was flawless.

Voice Acting: 2/5. Ooooh.... Okay how do I put this. Everybody but, Yuuichi/Sugita (who gets a huge Capital Red Ink F) gets an A. One has to wonder how Makoto's VA can do such a fantastic job, when all, but two lines of the episode just have her making cute noises, but it/she worked. Yuuichi/Sugita however brings things down almost immeasurably. His insincerity and failed attempts at conveying any sort of feeling or emotion left me baffled at just what the heck he is trying to do. This was Yuuichi's moment to evolve as a character and he should have and he probably would have were it not for Sugita's portrayal of him. Nontheless this section is not a complete loss thanks to the combined efforts of Makoto, Naiyuki, Akiko and Mishio's VA, who even combined did not have the number of lines Yuuichi had, yet managed to convey 10 times the feeling and passion into their roles in this sad episode.

Overall: 4+5+5+2=16/2= Eight Out Of Ten. This was a fantastic episode that was somewhat marred by Yuuichi's portrayal, but this should not deter others from enjoying it to the fullest.
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Old 2007-05-19, 23:38   Link #162
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It'll be interesting to see if your opinion of Sugita evolves as you watch the last 8 episodes. I'll hold any observations until then
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Old 2007-05-20, 02:43   Link #163
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
It'll be interesting to see if your opinion of Sugita evolves as you watch the last 8 episodes. I'll hold any observations until then
It's not that I've missed the sarcasm, it's just that he always sounds like he's being sarcastic about everything, even when the scene doesn't call for it at all (Like the narrarations and final Makoto moments in this episode).

I think it's just Sugita's voice, in which case maybe he can teach himself not to always sound like that for future series. He needs to find an off switch for that sarcastic sounding tone that permeates every role he does and then maybe I won't even be bothered by his voice anymore at all. I'd describe it as a lazy low tone drawl that sounds like he's almost phoning in his lines, or just not getting into the roles much. Like he can't be bothered. The problem is that this apparent feeling is then transferred to the charcter and it hurts the character and the scenes.

At least we dispensed with the spazzing for these last three episodes though, which is a substantial improvement, but I can't forgive Yuuichi's part in this episode. It's a shame because everyone else ranges from fine to excellent, even Mai at times has it nailed, but he just keeps dragging the scenes down for me.

I'd like to see if Yuuichi comes across in the latter parts of this arc any better in the Toei version since they've got a completely different voice actor. If he does I will know for certain where the problem lies.
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Old 2007-05-22, 02:24   Link #164
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The TOEI actor ... hmmmm, just seemed to be less proactive (more of a traditional almost faceless harem lead). That's probably over-stated... but he just seemed wimpy? I have to be a bit careful because out of all the characters from the TOEI version, he was the most unpleasantly drawn and that certainly affected my view of him.
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Old 2007-05-22, 09:34   Link #165
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
The TOEI actor ... hmmmm, just seemed to be less proactive (more of a traditional almost faceless harem lead). That's probably over-stated... but he just seemed wimpy? I have to be a bit careful because out of all the characters from the TOEI version, he was the most unpleasantly drawn and that certainly affected my view of him.
"Wimpy" is a compliment to Toei-Yuuichi IMHO, Vexx-jiji. He's kind of like SF's Ryu; no discernable personality whatsoever in my eyes.

KyoAni Yuuichi, on the other hand, is true to himself, and sticks to his guns. That's a lot more than you can say about most other male characters in his situation.
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Old 2007-05-23, 03:06   Link #166
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Well... the main win for the 2006 Yuuichi is that he actually acted like his source material rather than the "faceless software game lead" that so many other bland visual novels fall prey to.
A bit sarcastic, a bit slow to catch on yet witty ... but definitely not mayonaise.
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Old 2007-05-23, 06:06   Link #167
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Well... the main win for the 2006 Yuuichi is that he actually acted like his source material rather than the "faceless software game lead" that so many other bland visual novels fall prey to.
A bit sarcastic, a bit slow to catch on yet witty ... but definitely not mayonaise.
Yep. And somehow, some people seem to think that's a bad thing....
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Old 2007-06-01, 23:33   Link #168
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Yep. And somehow, some people seem to think that's a bad thing....
I acknowledge that everyone has their own opinions, but from my point of view i cannot see why Yuiichi portrayed in the 2006 version is anything but great; He's a great character
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Old 2007-06-05, 01:03   Link #169
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I acknowledge that everyone has their own opinions, but from my point of view i cannot see why Yuiichi portrayed in the 2006 version is anything but great; He's a great character
It all depends on your definition of "great" character.
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Old 2007-06-05, 01:25   Link #170
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It all depends on your definition of "great" character.
LOL i guess but IMO he has the so called style
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Old 2009-08-10, 14:41   Link #171
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Umm, apologies for being 3 years too late, but I've been watching this anime and I'm almost certain that this is the saddest story in the KyoAni/Key three. In fact I put this episode on hold for a little while until today because I knew it was probaly going to hit hard.

A typical flaw in these Key stories is that they typically follow the pattern of: Annoying/cute girl with quirk ---> sudden bad news---> you feel like a jerk----> tragedy ---> you feel like an even bigger jerk. It's effective but it does often feel like a cheap shot because there's frequently no development and sometimes feels very shallow if one is being led purely by emotion. The tragedy typically just hits fast and out of nowhere. And you are "supposed" to feel sad.

But in the case of Makoto's arc, it may have started this way as Makoto was very, very annoying, but her gradual degradation was painful to watch, as well as the people around her who tried in vain to help her. The best they can do is buy her more time and ease her pain. So all we can do is brace for the moment and accept it for it us and Yuuichi, Akiko, and Nayuki must do so as well. Watching how people cope with something like that matters a lot too.

I applaud the series for not cutting corners and making something legitimately tragic here. Instead of engineering a reaction, they earn it. 10/10
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Old 2010-07-07, 09:07   Link #172
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I've been rewatching the Kanon series recently and have just finished this episode, the end of Makoto's arc. My opinions towards it when I first watched the series in 2008 and my opinions now are more or less the same -- amidst all the brilliance that Kanon is, there is just one thing that I do not like about the series, and that is Makoto's arc.

The posts here and the overall poll rating basically shows that the general opinion of this episode is overwhelmingly positive. I can certainly understand that from an aesthetics point of view; the animation, especially during the wedding scene, was superb as usual from KyoAni and the BGM fitted perfectly. From a storyline point of view, however, I thought it was just a slightly above average conclusion to a mediocre arc. Reading the posts here, I can certainly see why the reaction has been so positive and how the episode can bring about a strong emotional response in the viewer, but for some reason I just can't feel those very emotions while watching this. I didn't want to say this at risk of sounding like a troll, but to be honest I felt really bored throughout the Makoto arc and couldn't care less about the character of Makoto and how things would turn out for her. I don't know, I just found the whole premise of this arc rather ridiculous to begin with. I understand that the cause of it all was a miracle that is a central theme in Kanon, but my suspension of disbelief can only go so far. It's weird though -- I can accept something like the Misae arc in Clannad, which has a relatively similar plot device (animal turning into a human to meet another human) as this. Perhaps it's something else I'm not liking about this arc that I cannot put into coherent sentences. It's pretty much the standard Key story though, and I'm a sucker for them so meh I don't know.

I'm glad though that I did not drop this series after this arc back in 2008, although I almost did want to. I really enjoyed the arcs of the other four heroines, most particularly Shiori's and Ayu's, and cannot wait to go through them again during this rewatch.

All that being said, I don't think I can give this ep a low rating. Like I said, it is beautifully animated and also provided a nice conclusion to the arc, leaving no loose ends. My main issue is with the whole arc, not this ep itself, so I would probably give this a 7.
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Old 2010-07-07, 11:39   Link #173
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I see 2 major problems with this arc that will hamper your suspension of belief.:

1.) It was too long; the first part of Kanon just meandered around for too long.
2.) The revelation that she is a fox WAS pretty dumb and out of left field. Mishio in the anime pretty much exists to explain the plot. In general this kind of expository character represents the worst kind of storytelling.

Another problem is the relationship and attraction is largely one sided, which can hurt your concern depending on your like of the character.

So you are probably right that the corresponding arc in Clannad works better.

Enjoying the Makoto arcs requires having to stick to the themes-- that is complete sacrifice for a just a chance to be with a love one. The other involves the pain of being ignored and need to have one's existence validated. In many ways, it's the only "pure" arc in Kanon. Also speaking of related stories...

Spoiler for Angel Beats:
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Old 2010-07-10, 18:18   Link #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
But in the case of Makoto's arc, it may have started this way as Makoto was very, very annoying, but her gradual degradation was painful to watch, as well as the people around her who tried in vain to help her. The best they can do is buy her more time and ease her pain. So all we can do is brace for the moment and accept it for it us and Yuuichi, Akiko, and Nayuki must do so as well. Watching how people cope with something like that matters a lot too.

I applaud the series for not cutting corners and making something legitimately tragic here. Instead of engineering a reaction, they earn it. 10/10
While I didn't cry to the ending this arc, I agree it was it was very sad to watch her degradation since it was tragic, and pretty emotional too. Though I also agree about your comment for the AB comparison.
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Old 2010-07-12, 09:50   Link #175
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On Archon_Wing's suggestion, I've recently started watching Kanon 2006.

My feelings on this arc are similar to zette's, but I'd probably rate this arc a 9/10 anyway.

I just can't suspend disbelief here. I just can't do it.

I'm sure I'd find the Makoto arc absolutely adorable, beautiful, and touching, if I could suspend disbelief, but there's just something about how this arc plays out that just makes it so hard for me to swallow at a basic acceptance level. Which is odd because, like zette, I could swallow the Misae arc in Clannad without too much trouble, and I liked it a lot. Perhaps its where the Misae arc is much shorter than the Makoto arc here, and very magical stories like this are a bit easier to swallow when they're short.

The Makoto arc here just feels a touch too surreal for me. I kind of cared about Makoto, and wanted to see her happy, but at some point, I just couldn't take this arc seriously any more.
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Old 2010-07-12, 15:38   Link #176
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Yea, I'd agree with you guys on some degree. It's a bit difficult to really get into Makoto's feelings beyond the basics and a few insightful quotes in earlier episodes. We don't really know what she really wants and feels besides Yuuichi, and Yuuichi's own feelings are vague. Which...
going back to Angel Beats.

Spoiler for Angel Beats:
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Old 2010-07-13, 10:14   Link #177
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I don't think length is the issue here. The first few eps mainly served to introduce the main characters and it is only after that that Makoto's arc is explored in depth. Nice point about Mishio though, it does seem as if the sole purpose of her character was just to explain the story and bring the plot forward. I really like the comparison to Yui's story in Angel Beats. The part where you mention about the "desire of both sides" being present in that is, I think, a good reason why I didn't like this. I could never really tell if Yuuichi did the whole marriage thing because he truly had feelings for Makoto or because he just wanted to see her move on.

After thinking about it, I guess my main problem with this arc is the fact that a fox could harbor romantic feelings, or something close to that, for a human. I can't suspend disbelief for this. Yes, I understand that animals can get attached to a human after prolonged interaction, but that is to the extent of loyalty and not full-blown romantic love like this arc makes it out to be.
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Old 2010-07-13, 11:24   Link #178
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@ Archon_Wing
I don't think length is the issue here. The first few eps mainly served to introduce the main characters and it is only after that that Makoto's arc is explored in depth. Nice point about Mishio though, it does seem as if the sole purpose of her character was just to explain the story and bring the plot forward. I really like the comparison to Yui's story in Angel Beats. The part where you mention about the "desire of both sides" being present in that is, I think, a good reason why I didn't like this. I could never really tell if Yuuichi did the whole marriage thing because he truly had feelings for Makoto or because he just wanted to see her move on.

After thinking about it, I guess my main problem with this arc is the fact that a fox could harbor romantic feelings, or something close to that, for a human. I can't suspend disbelief for this. Yes, I understand that animals can get attached to a human after prolonged interaction, but that is to the extent of loyalty and not full-blown romantic love like this arc makes it out to be.
I thought about this a bit more myself, and for me, the issue is that while I can kind of accept a fox harboring romantic feelings for a human (it's not much different than what I've seen in Pokemon before ), I find the coupling of that with severe emotional/intellectual degradation to be hard to swallow.

To put it another way, if the fox was capable of having strong romantic feelings for a human, then that suggests a certain level of self-awareness (on the part of the fox) to me. And that level of self-awareness contradicts with just how far Makoto degraded over time. Makoto didn't just become less human over time; she became like an infant of almost any species.

If Makoto hadn't degraded as far as she did, I'd have found this arc a lot easier to swallow.

By the way, I also get the impression that Yuuichi married her mostly to help her move on. That, plus he really did like that fox, and wanted to do everything he could to make amends for how he had treated her (both when she was a fox, and also for when she was a human in a comedic feud with him ). Which is why he copes with the lost of Makoto pretty well; he was already emotionally prepared for it, and even taking actions based on it soon happening.

Edit: Oh, and the Angel Beats! comparison is a good one. I agree with you there, Archon_Wing.
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Old 2010-07-13, 15:31   Link #179
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After thinking about it, I guess my main problem with this arc is the fact that a fox could harbor romantic feelings, or something close to that, for a human. I can't suspend disbelief for this. Yes, I understand that animals can get attached to a human after prolonged interaction, but that is to the extent of loyalty and not full-blown romantic love like this arc makes it out to be.
You're right; a fox shouldn't be able to. That's why taking a human form and finding Yuuichi required a miracle-- one that wasn't gonna last very long and required the ultimate sacrifice.

But yea, it's not really an all out romantic story.
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Old 2010-07-13, 17:31   Link #180
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After thinking about it, I guess my main problem with this arc is the fact that a fox could harbor romantic feelings, or something close to that, for a human. I can't suspend disbelief for this. Yes, I understand that animals can get attached to a human after prolonged interaction, but that is to the extent of loyalty and not full-blown romantic love like this arc makes it out to be.
I actually found Makoto's attachment to Yuuichi to be almost completely non-romantic. My interpretation was that she took human form because she felt that was the only way she could stay close to him. Makoto misunderstood the whole "marriage" thing (as she did many other things). In the manga Yuuichi read to her, the couple vows to stay together forever, and that was what Makoto found so appealing in marriage. She didn't want to get married to Yuuichi to have a romantic, sexual relationship so much that she just wanted to be with him forever. She thought marriage just meant being together forever, so that's why she pursued it. Yuuichi went through with the marriage not because he "loved" Makoto, but because he knew it was Makoto's dying wish.
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