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Old 2006-12-07, 10:22   Link #21
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KatonMakai View Post
-Ahh but you know how these shonen manga work: good guys gain a small upper hand over their adversaries. Then said adversaries reveal their true power and pund away at the good guys for a few chapters. Then as they are on the brink of death the hero with fair eyes shows up and saves the day by blowing the hell out of the villians with a new technique/weapon.

-I know that sounds very predictable and undesireable but Kishimoto wouldn't have spent the last 20+ chapters preparing Naruto's new jutsu just to save it for something that might happen in chapter 400.
True, true. The scenario seems to be following that exact plan doesn't it? I wrote that against better judgement. After all, most pretty much knew that Kakuzu wasn't anywhere near dead because we have a good undestanding of how shounen usually works. So, Naruto arriving in the nick of time is a safe bet.

Quote:
I interpreted his quote different:

Chouji: Wh…What is that!? Why doesn’t he die!?
Shika: I don’t know… But with these guys, I’m not surprised by the little stuff anymore…


So, I think he is just been Sarcastic and even funny about This guys been some sort some freak show, So what Kakuuzu showed is the usual thing.
Right. Shikamaru's strategy has been broken at this point. There's no way he could've been prepared for such crazy powers. Anything he comes up with now will be on the fly.
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Old 2006-12-07, 10:23   Link #22
zamme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Kakuzu and Hidan have no idea who Ino is or what her jutsu does. I'm not even sure they're aware she's around yet, though she did shout out to Chouji and Shikamaru so her presence was probably revealed to them. Still, they don't know her jutsu, so they won't be able to prepare for it or defend against it. I just figure Ino's gotta to do something right? Or else why even have her there? I agree that Kakuzu is the most likely target for mind switch. Hidan will probably be too dense to immediately realize that Kakuzu's being controlled and would waste time trying to ask why he's attacking.
Actually, they know exactly where Ino is. In the end of the chapter she jumped out landing right next to the group. Probably understood it was meaningless since she revealed her position.

Ino will probably be a pawn of Shikamarus game sometime soon, but I hope she'll do something else then the Mind transfer-thing, maybe an actual offensive technique?
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Old 2006-12-07, 10:32   Link #23
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since kakuzu has each element u need the other elements to beat him.

Kakuzu is about to use a fire jutsu but as we saw in kakashi vs zabuza kakashi already copied water jutsus.

Kakuzu has a lightning mask which could be defeated by naruto's wind jutsu.

i think the earth mask was already destroyed so thats outta the way.

that leaves wind and water. i think his natural affinity is for water so he doesnt have a mask for it.

and for wind u need fire =[

hidans gonna be the one to live i think.
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Old 2006-12-07, 10:36   Link #24
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Originally Posted by zamme View Post
Ino will probably be a pawn of Shikamarus game sometime soon, but I hope she'll do something else then the Mind transfer-thing, maybe an actual offensive technique?
-You've heard of the expression "Hell don't knoweth the fury of a woman scorned" right zamme? An angry 15 year old girl is just as deadly as one that is about 20 and so on. I bet when they see her angry glare Hidan will cut out his own eyes to escape it and Kakuzu's masked ghosts will crawl back to where they cam from . On a more serious note I'm sure Ino is there for a very good reason as Shikamaru wouldn't have included her in the group in chapter 331. She probably has an offensive jutsu somewhere.
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Old 2006-12-07, 10:46   Link #25
Mr. Johnny 5
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Ino wont takeover any's body...cuz if she does she'll die.

She aint immortal...the damage she takes goes back to her own body...to control the enemy like her father could is the only option...(mind confusion)

However...this honestly shows how easy Akatsuki was killed if they werent immortal. LOL seriously...it is no suprise why Itachi runs away the entire time.

I wonder if Kisame holds such an immortal ability...since he is also very eager to fight pretty much everytime.

Orochimaru, Kakuzu, Hidan, Sasori were all immortal..though Sasori died...because of revealing extremely obvious his weakpoint.
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Old 2006-12-07, 11:10   Link #26
Suna no tate
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Old 2006-12-07, 11:22   Link #27
Soulnin
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Originally Posted by Ichimaru View Post
do you guys think the story is goin to quick?

akatsuki members didnt get that much screentime as compared to the other villians, yet they are gettin killed to plotholes....so much about boasting them
Not at all. Theres no real reason for Kakuzu or Hidan to stay alive (although Hidan will of course unless his being immortal is disproven). It has been a while since their first appearance, and now we know their personalities and moves, they could get to the point of being annoyingly drawn out if they survive here. 9 'villians' and we still have yet to see two of them in full. We also don't know much at all about several members so thats alot of ground to cover.
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Old 2006-12-07, 11:29   Link #28
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Right. Shikamaru's strategy has been broken at this point. There's no way he could've been prepared for such crazy powers. Anything he comes up with now will be on the fly.
They don't have to be prepared for the powers, they just have to be prepared for the results, meaning capture of one fails, then capture of two fails. Didn't Shikamaru talk about three plans or something of that sort( edit: not three plans, but three simulations)? There should be a reason why he wanted everyone to memorize those perfectly so he doesn't have to order them when the time comes.

Edit: Although what I recalled incorrectly would have made a good case support, not having that may not hurt that case either. I think Shika needs to have a plan taking into account all the possibilities and possible reactions to any kind of failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
I doubt he can do it more than once; He already used Chidory 2 times (maybe 3?).
I was trying to be as generous as I can for Kakashi. If he used it 2 times (if you consider that last Raikiri as one, then), based on his chakra 2.5 years, he could have remained with less than 60% of his chakra. But, there is the possibility he might have increased that number. Also, Kakashi can at most use MS three times, meaning around 30% of his chakra is needed for that. On the other hand, if you count the last Raikiri as 2, then he could have remained with less than 40% of his chakra, meaning one MS.

And these do not include the chakra-replenishing pills Chouji typically carries, and the possibility of sharing that with the others. That would make all the above calculations the lower-bound for what Kakashi can achieve.
Quote:
I interpreted his quote different:

Chouji: Wh…What is that!? Why doesn’t he die!?
Shika: I don’t know… But with these guys, I’m not surprised by the little stuff anymore…
Possible, but I doubt that Shika did not consider any possible deviation from his plan.

Last edited by Sazelyt; 2006-12-07 at 11:43.
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Old 2006-12-07, 11:41   Link #29
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5
Ino wont takeover any's body...cuz if she does she'll die.

She aint immortal...the damage she takes goes back to her own body...to control the enemy like her father could is the only option...(mind confusion)
The jutsu still offers an advantage because you can use it get the drop on an enemy. Ino could enter Kakuzu's head without Hidan knowing, act like she's about to finish off the others then turn around and lop off Hidan's head. The element of surprise. But Ino did come out of hiding already so that plan may have fell through.


Quote:
They don't have to be prepared for the powers, they just have to be prepared for the results, meaning capture of one fails, then capture of two fails. Didn't Shikamaru talk about three plans or something of that sort? There should be a reason why he wanted everyone to memorize those perfectly so he doesn't have to order them when the time comes.
Maybe he did come up with a number of plans for a general ninja encounter. Still, Kakuzu's methods of fighting are so weird that Shikamaru's plans may have already been rendered useless. He himself is basically out of chakra and Ino has revealed her location early.


Suna, this is the 334 discussion thread, you don't have to use spoiler tags
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Old 2006-12-07, 11:48   Link #30
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Maybe he did come up with a number of plans for a general ninja encounter. Still, Kakuzu's methods of fighting are so weird that Shikamaru's plans may have already been rendered useless. He himself is basically out of chakra and Ino has revealed her location early.
Kakashi saving may not be a part of the plan either, but they now go back to the beginning (other than Ino's location's revelation, but Shika's plan may have considered her getting revealed sooner or later, if she was supposed be in range of the fighters, and considering the damage both sides can cause to the surroundings): two Akatsuki not being captured or Shika couldn't keep them captured for long time. If he hasn't made up a plan for that then we need to doubt his intelligence especially when he put his mind on that for maybe 1-2 days.
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Old 2006-12-07, 11:53   Link #31
Mists
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And I thought we would finally meet an Akatsuki that was based on Jutsus and not a freak...

Man Itachi must've had the hardest time in Akatsuki being the only non-freak (or maybe we don't know something yet?)

Here we have hand-mouths who's probably the least freakish of the freaks...I doubt there's a clan of hand-mouths.

Then we have Orochimaru, snake man, Kisami, fish dude, Zetsu, flower pot man, Sasori, puppet man, Hidan, chosen-by-god man, and finally Kazuzu who is elemental man.

Itachi must've had a hard time getting into the organization because they are all unique freaks while Itachi had to kill his clan to claim himself unique. I'm really curious about the Akatsuki story...and perhaps Tobi isn't as freakish? But as far as we know, they were all freaks except for Itachi and Orochimaru seemed to have fit right in. The girl is probably nature girl - extreme earth power able to sprout flowers and move roots, the freak part is, she was once a tree.

Anyway, I remember Kakashi saying sharingan couldn't really copy elemental jutsus, yet he did water against Zabuza. And then he said that jounin's usually have 2 elemental jutsus, so perhaps his second is Water. I wonder what Shika's is beside wind...and I guess we found out that Asuma had wind and Fire, no wonder he could keep the cigarette lit.

I can so see Ino being discovered and getting hit by the scythe, and Shika getting real guilty of thinking of his own revenge (same path Sasuke walked down)...and the only way Ino tries to stay alive is taking over Hidan's body.
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Old 2006-12-07, 11:57   Link #32
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
They don't have to be prepared for the powers, they just have to be prepared for the results, meaning capture of one fails, then capture of two fails. Didn't Shikamaru talk about three plans or something of that sort? There should be a reason why he wanted everyone to memorize those perfectly so he doesn't have to order them when the time comes.
Actually, he said “Once you’ve got the plan in your head, go through the simulation in your mind at least 3 times”

There is another one that said: “Remember the plan so you can have more than three different simulations in your head Use this image training as the plan's success rate will vary”

I think the plan he laid out for the team was already exhausted.
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Old 2006-12-07, 11:58   Link #33
Luminion Lancer
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
The jutsu still offers an advantage because you can use it get the drop on an enemy. Ino could enter Kakuzu's head without Hidan knowing, act like she's about to finish off the others then turn around and lop off Hidan's head. The element of surprise. But Ino did come out of hiding already so that plan may have fell through.

Maybe he did come up with a number of plans for a general ninja encounter. Still, Kakuzu's methods of fighting are so weird that Shikamaru's plans may have already been rendered useless. He himself is basically out of chakra and Ino has revealed her location early.
-Question is: how would that slow moving jutsu catch those guys? Kakuzu is rather fast so he's out of the question unless Ino is brave enough to get up close to him and use it which I seriously doubt. Hidan is even worse. Sure he can't die but he still gets injuries like everyone else and Ino's body suffers all damage done to the body she's possesing. Looks like a really crappy situation for Shikamaru and Co. doesn't it?

-Shikamaru dealt with Tayuya who also had a weird way of attacking (remember the Oni she summoned and controlled with the flute?). He should still be able to deal with. There's still Chouji. He could act as a shield for them while Shikamaru comes up with a plan. Or this could be the perfect time to use that thing Shikamaru gave to Kakashi.
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Old 2006-12-07, 12:00   Link #34
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Actually, he said “Once you’ve got the plan in your head, go through the simulation in your mind at least 3 times”

There is another one that said: “Remember the plan so you can have more than three different simulations in your head Use this image training as the plan's success rate will vary”

I think the plan he laid out for the team was already exhausted.
I corrected that part later on. Again, I doubt that Shikamaru did not have a back up plan or something of that sort. If what they did is the only plan that assumes no failure, and a plan that doesn't require the active use of Ino or Chouji, then, something is definitely missing there.
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Old 2006-12-07, 12:10   Link #35
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
I corrected that part later on. Again, I doubt that Shikamaru did not have a back up plan or something of that sort. If what they did is the only plan that assumes no failure, and a plan that doesn't require the active use of Ino or Chouji, then, something is definitely missing there.
At least Chouji already did his active part, he used his Jutsu that proved a failure, In the case of Ino I beginning to think Ino presence there is just a support for heeling purposes.

Shikamaru could had a back up plan, but that back up plan was not devised in its completion before they got to the Akatsuki, given There were lots of unknown about Kakuuzu. but now with the inform about Kakuzu abilities, Shikmaru back up plan (if there were any, refer to Tayuya as when HE caught Tayuya he didn’t had any Back up plan after He could not Strangle Tayuya) can be completed.

Ill say the little devise Shiakamru gave to Kakashi could play a role in upcoming chapters.
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Old 2006-12-07, 12:30   Link #36
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
At least Chouji already did his active part, he used his Jutsu that proved a failure, In the case of Ino I beginning to think Ino presence there is just a support for heeling purposes.

Shikamaru could had a back up plan, but that back up plan was not devised in its completion before they got to the Akatsuki, given There were lots of unknown about Kakuuzu. but now with the inform about Kakuzu abilities, Shikmaru back up plan (if there were any, refer to Tayuya as when HE caught Tayuya he didn’t had any Back up plan after He could not Strangle Tayuya) can be completed.

Ill say the little devise Shiakamru gave to Kakashi could play a role in upcoming chapters.
Chouji's strength lies in his body-strength, which wasn't used at all. And, we know that, Shikamaru has already prepared a plan that doesn't involve Kakashi - with only Ino and Chouji. I believe Ino's strength and Chouji's strength lies in that plan. Kakashi is currently just an extra help for them, so Shikamaru needs to have another plan.

Another thing, as I mentioned above, the ability of someone can be used to tweak or perfect a plan later on, but if the enemy escapes from from your trap at the beginning, and you do not have some kind of a universal plan for that, then his planning ability loses its meaning. If Shikamaru hasn't planned something beforehand, then what is so special about him? Also, what I mean by universal plan, is the action they did at the beginning, that doesn't depend too much on the unique unknown characteristics the opponents may have - such as coming from behind and using shadow jutsu, something that will work regardless of the opponent but may not hold long enough to succeed (although that is not my main point).

But, if Shikamaru really went to "dive without diving equipment", then I will definitely change my opinion of him and put him around the level of Naruto in terms of going to action without being prepared.
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Old 2006-12-07, 12:31   Link #37
s-class uchiha
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So awesome!

Two Handed Chidor = Sweeeeeeeet!

Well I bet you anything that Kakashi has at least 2 element affinities (lightning duh) and water.

I think Kishi was a little careful in the beginning, b/c we know that Nidaime had a great affinity for water (not talking about the Oro fight as a source, but manga (?) an databook), sandaime used lots of earth jutsus, and kakashi water.

Great chapter
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Old 2006-12-07, 13:27   Link #38
Sarugaki
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Originally Posted by s-class uchiha View Post
So awesome!

Two Handed Chidor = Sweeeeeeeet!

Well I bet you anything that Kakashi has at least 2 element affinities (lightning duh) and water.
He has never used a fire jutsu right ? I don't remember.
The trick he played on Sasuke during the belt test was a doton jutsu I think. Not very advanced but still.
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Old 2006-12-07, 13:33   Link #39
LostOnTheU-rturn
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He has never used a fire jutsu right ? I don't remember.
The trick he played on Sasuke during the belt test was a doton jutsu I think. Not very advanced but still.
Yep, it was a doton, but he has use other element attacks, such as water too.
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Old 2006-12-07, 13:38   Link #40
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Kakashi was sweet .. he is known for his distinct one liner and here to he didnt disspaoint one bit
Now you are going to Die
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