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Old 2006-12-07, 13:44   Link #41
gibits
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Ino can also plain hijack another person's body and control them without worry to themselves. Well i don't know if she can do it, but her father could, so i think its pretty much a clan move (she did do this jutsu in filler though).

Ino's moves deal with the spiritual (mind and soul instead of physical stuff like elements), seems to be a good counter to Hidan. I think she's pretty useless for Kakuza but when it comes to Hidan i think we will see more of her.
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Old 2006-12-07, 13:53   Link #42
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Chouji's strength lies in his body-strength, which wasn't used at all. And, we know that, Shikamaru has already prepared a plan that doesn't involve Kakashi - with only Ino and Chouji. I believe Ino's strength and Chouji's strength lies in that plan. Kakashi is currently just an extra help for them, so Shikamaru needs to have another plan.
As Stated, Shikamaru Changed his plan to include Kakashi on it, so the other plan was left to the sketchbook and not even happening given Shiakamarus current condition, also even If Choji uses more his body-strength, that does not take away the fact that Chouji was used as part of Shikamarus plan.

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Another thing, as I mentioned above, the ability of someone can be used to tweak or perfect a plan later on, but if the enemy escapes from from your trap at the beginning, and you do not have some kind of a universal plan for that, then his planning ability loses its meaning. If Shikamaru hasn't planned something beforehand, then what is so special about him? Also, what I mean by universal plan, is the action they did at the beginning, that doesn't depend too much on the unique unknown characteristics the opponents may have - such as coming from behind and using shadow jutsu, something that will work regardless of the opponent but may not hold long enough to succeed (although that is not my main point).
Shikamaru makes a lot of plan, but most of the plans of Shika that do work are normally made on site and not prearranged. The plan he did beforehand failed given Kakuuzu interesting ability, its fine that he could had a Plan if the persons escape his shadow bind, but nothing of a plan that had in mind what Kakuuzu showed rihgt now. In this moment Shikamaru maybe will devise a start based on his team current situation.

The beauty of Shikamaru (I stole your line form your Hirashin post ) does not really lies on his strategic skills, it really lies on his ability to come up with dozens of awesome strategies in seconds.

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But, if Shikamaru really went to "dive without diving equipment", then I will definitely change my opinion of him and put him around the level of Naruto in terms of going to action without being prepared.
Why??? Just because he could not end up doing what you think he might had done?? I think that is been a little selfish from your part.

There is no problem if Shikamaru did not had any other plan besides this one, and he will still be the excelent strategist he is (please Don't try to put him besides Naruto, that's an insult to intelligence), And what its happening now reminds me a lot about the Save Sasuke arc, most of his startegies, did not worked out perfectly as they did not had a back up plan as he ended up creating a new one on the go.
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Old 2006-12-07, 14:00   Link #43
-HyugaNeji-
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-_- Sorry, it's getting more and more ridiculous in my oppinion. Why are those people even called shinobi anymore? It's just monsters and freaks and i KNEW that this guy wasn't dead. On the contrary, i expected exactly some kind of super freakish power. Where are the surprises??? :<
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Old 2006-12-07, 14:04   Link #44
LostOnTheU-rturn
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Originally Posted by -HyugaNeji- View Post
-_- Sorry, it's getting more and more ridiculous in my oppinion. Why are those people even called shinobi anymore? It's just monsters and freaks and i KNEW that this guy wasn't dead. On the contrary, i expected exactly some kind of super freakish power. Where are the surprises??? :<
shinobis went out the windows when jinchuuriki were first introduced
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Old 2006-12-07, 14:09   Link #45
MobiuS
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I just miss the ol' days of hand to hand combat. Now its more like Witch Hunter Robin ... everyone casting spells .. noone taking time off for melee.
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Old 2006-12-07, 14:14   Link #46
Ero-Senn1n
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Every stronger akatsukian has at least one ability where he is godlike, Itachi is in genjutsu, the leader seems to have the best ever sealing jutsu, Orochimaru with kinjutsu, etc...
I was thinking until the last chapter that Kakuzu was the taijutsu god, however it turns out that Kakuzu is the elemental ninjutsu god, best user ever shown. I mean others can be stronger in one particular element, however if someone has all the elements at his disposal than he can beat any other element with one that is stronger on the element wheel that was explained by Kishimoto. So Kakuzu is really strong only if he can use properly the elements, which means a good tactic, no wonder that he is far smarter than Hidan. Against Kakashi's lightning he used wind, but we see that Kakashi was not seriously injured, so Kakuzu has a limit with the level of jutsu. It may be that Naruto will kill him to show that the very high level of a particular element can still destroy a stronger element. For example Naruto's kazengan destroys kakuzu's mixed-element or pure fire ultimate jutsu. It would be really interesting if Kakuzu could mix the elements like the bloodline users, but he could mix. any element with any other, big number of combinations (wood, ice, ...).
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Old 2006-12-07, 14:16   Link #47
Sazelyt
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(note: what I say in both parts are similar to each other, so a part of the answer may lie in the part other than where I replied.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Shikamaru makes a lot of plan, but most of the plans of Shika that do work are normally made on site and not prearranged. The plan he did beforehand failed given Kakuuzu interesting ability, its fine that he could had a Plan if the persons escape his shadow bind, but nothing of a plan that had in mind what Kakuuzu showed rihgt now. In this moment Shikamaru maybe will devise a start based on his team current situation.

The beauty of Shikamaru (I stole your line form your Hirashin post ) does not really lies on his strategic skills, it really lies on his ability to come up with dozens of awesome strategies in seconds.
I can understand both of what you are saying. He may not have a plan that takes into account all the details of Kakuzu's abilities, that is why I have mentioned, some kind of a general plan, that does not need to know such abilities beforehand to perform. Also, what you said would be perfectly understandable if this were to be his first meeting with Akatsuki. But, that is not the case.

Quote:
Why??? Just because he could not end up doing what you think he might had done?? I think that is been a little selfish from your part.

There is no problem if Shikamaru did not had any other plan besides this one, and he will still be the excelent strategist he is (please Don't try to put him besides Naruto, that's an insult to intelligence), And what its happening now reminds me a lot about the Save Sasuke arc, most of his startegies, did not worked out perfectly as they did not had a back up plan as he ended up creating a new one on the go.
For Naruto, I wasn't referring to his intelligence (cause that cannot even be opened for discussion, the difference is that clear), I was referring to their preparation. Naruto usually acts without planning ahead, and to be honest, I would like to see Shika highly prepared, against all circumstances. That is my expectation but I think Shika, his intelligence, and the level of his opponents, deserve that kind of expectation.

The last time Shika came across Akatsuki, his failure cost an important life. That should have taught him to think of every possible scenario before acting against this group, rather than using "I can come up with something later on, just one plan is enough for now" attitude.

Also, for Sasuke arc, he improvised his plan taking into account the skills of opponents as they move ahead, that can work regardless of the abilities of his opponents. This time is not much different, but instead of directly going from one Akatsuki fight to another, he had some free time to create/revise more strategies, again taking into account all possible reactions from his opponents, rather than wait for the next fight to happen to create those strategies.

Again, we entered a possibility based road. What he actually did will most probably become clear in the next chapter. All I can say is, I hope that he doesn't betray the hopes some people put in his abilities.
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Old 2006-12-07, 14:29   Link #48
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
I can understand both of what you are saying. He may not have a plan that takes into account all the details of Kakuzu's abilities, that is why I have mentioned, some kind of a general plan, that does not need to know such abilities beforehand to perform. Also, what you said would be perfectly understandable if this were to be his first meeting with Akatsuki. But, that is not the case.
Maybe is not his first meeting with Akatsuki, but the plan he had based on it crumble with Kakuuzu new ability, so previous meeting right now becomes obsolete as Shika would had to act based on what the situation is at the current moment.

Quote:
For Naruto, I wasn't referring to his intelligence (cause that cannot even be opened for discussion, the difference is that clear), I was referring to their preparation. Naruto usually acts without planning ahead, and to be honest, I would like to see Shika highly prepared, against all circumstances. That is my expectation but I think Shika, his intelligence, and the level of his opponents, deserve that kind of expectation.

The last time Shika came across Akatsuki, his failure cost an important life. That should have taught him to think of every possible scenario before acting against this group, rather than using "I can come up with something later on, just one plan is enough for now" attitude.

Even so, A plans as I said could not be devise without Information, information Shika did not had, he could had a lot of plan, but Shika needs a new plan, because he needs to put Kakkuzu abilities in the scope. Sp he could had prepared himself to anything that could happen inside the information he got about the two opponent, but he could had not made a plan that had in mind Kakuuzu abilities, is like saying that before Kakashi joined the team Shikamaru had his Plan laid out and he also though about the possibility that Kakashi would had joined the team.

Quote:
Also, for Sasuke arc, he improvised his plan taking into account the skills of opponents as they move ahead, that can work regardless of the abilities of his opponents. This time is not much different, but instead of directly going from one Akatsuki fight to another, he had some free time to create/revise more strategies, again taking into account all possible reactions from his opponents, rather than wait for the next fight to happen to create those strategies.
He had a free time to create strategy but all of His strategy were only based on the information he had (just as the Sasuke arc) in the moment Kakuuzu showed this insane abilities, a new plan shold be need to be created.

Quote:
Again, we entered a possibility based road. What he actually did will most probably become clear in the next chapter. All I can say is, I hope that he doesn't betray the hopes some people put in his abilities.
Iím sure that whatever Shikamaru might come up with of he does, would not betray my hopes (and others), he has already proved he deserves the respect of everyone.
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Old 2006-12-07, 14:34   Link #49
Ryuujin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostOnTheU-rturn View Post
shinobis went out the windows when jinchuuriki were first introduced
And Jinchuriki have stopped mattering since the timeskip, since all they do is job to Akatsuki now...
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Old 2006-12-07, 14:40   Link #50
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Maybe is not his first meeting with Akatsuki, but the plan he had based on it crumble with Kakuuzu new ability, so previous meeting right now becomes obsolete as Shika would had to act based on what the situation is at the current moment.

Even so, A plans as I said could not be devise without Information, information Shika did not had, he could had a lot of plan, but Shika needs a new plan, because he needs to put Kakkuzu abilities in the scope. S

He had a free time to create strategy but all of His strategy were only based on the information he had (just as the Sasuke arc) in the moment Kakuuzu showed this insane abilities, a new plan shold be need to be created.
So, are you saying he shouldn't have thought about a plan before going on this mission that can still work even taking into account the current conditions? Considering Shikamaru's intelligence, isn't it logical to expect from him to devise a plan like that beforehand that can work regardless of the ability Kakuzu presents? If your answer is yes, then we are on the same side, if no, then we are not.
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Old 2006-12-07, 14:41   Link #51
Zek
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Man, Kakuzu's powers are messed up. It seems to me like his personal element is Earth, and each of the masks have one of the other elements(Water being down for the count thanks to Kakashi). Maybe the masks each contain the soul of some powerful ninja or something. Kakuzu himself looks like a zombie, and I'm sure his face is a mess underneath that mask. I wonder if he's even really alive. The mask didn't actually have anything to do with why he survived that Raikiri, since it went clean through.
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Old 2006-12-07, 14:48   Link #52
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
So, are you saying he shouldn't have thought about a plan before going on this mission that can still work even taking into account the current conditions? Considering Shikamaru's intelligence, isn't it logical to expect from him to devise a plan like that beforehand that can work regardless of the ability Kakuzu presents? If your answer is yes, then we are on the same side, if no, then we are not.
Ill say 100% sure he thouhg of a plan that was made if the first one failed,, and I’ll say 50/50 chance that this implied back up plan could work based on current conditions and what Kakuuzu shown so far. If its works, then people should not be doubting who is the most intelligent character in Naruto-verse.

So, I’m not on either your side or the other side…I am in-between…
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Old 2006-12-07, 14:57   Link #53
Sinaura
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The girl is probably nature girl - extreme earth power able to sprout flowers and move roots, the freak part is, she was once a tree.
Haha once a tree, that's rich.
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Old 2006-12-07, 14:59   Link #54
Sinaura
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Out of all the Akatsuki members, I find Sasori still has the best immortality; i mean, to have just your soul left to carry out your desires and battles, that's pimp.
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Old 2006-12-07, 15:02   Link #55
Rurik
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After Seen all of the Akatsuki shown so far, Orochimaru is not such a freak afterall…p.
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Old 2006-12-07, 15:20   Link #56
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Maybe Oro left because he didnt really fit in ...
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Old 2006-12-07, 15:26   Link #57
0TaKu0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
The title of the next chapter is "Omnipotent Ruler". I wonder what that's referring to. Is it the name of a jutsu or could it be talking about the Akatsuki Leader?
Yea, I was wondering about this too, it would suck ass if in the next chapter they strayed away from the fight and headed toward AL's direction, cause this fight is just getting good I rather not have then stray away from it.

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After Seen all of the Akatsuki shown so far, Orochimaru is not such a freak afterall…p.
Hell no, lol Oro is still a freak to me, someone who uses live / dead humans ages ranging from babies to adult in his "experiments" is a freak to me. Not to mention all the freaky Jutsu's he has like when he comes out of him self lol, and he talks like a gay Michael Jackson kukuku... LOL. Orochimaru is the definition of creepy freak xD.

Any way, I don’t know why but I had seriously high expectations of this chapter >_>; and for some reason this chapter didn’t meet them, so I was a bit disappointed but none the less, I think it was my own fault for having such high expectations.

Also those that are dissing on Ino about how she's not doing anything, again Chouji did not move an inch till he was told to by Shikamaru, I honestly think Ino is waiting for Shika's signal, also when you consider her Jutsu's? She's not someone you throw in right at the start, she's the type of person you use as a fail safe.

I think it will play out something like this, Ino takes control of Kakuzu's mind, Chouji uses Double Multi-size Hands and grabs Hidan down for Kakashi to have a better Aim and using the MS to teleport Hidan's head to hell or wherever. So this would be like an act of desperation because they figure, they need to take out at least one so they can deal with the other one together, and gang up on him. Though this proves to be wrong, because once Kakuzu is released of Ino's Jutsu, he starts reeking havoc with his 3 buddy’s and just as they are on the verge of impending doom, Naruto comes in and Kazesengan's the hell out of Kakuzu and his 3 Mask's GG!

As for Kakuzu, I guess the Mask that Kakashi destroyed used Water Element, because first Kakuzu's own element is earth, they showed the 3 surviving Mask's using their own elements already, Futon, Raiton, and Katon at the very end, meaning the only one left is Suiton which is probably the mask that Kakashi destroyed with Raikiri.
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Old 2006-12-07, 15:33   Link #58
kikko_s
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Originally Posted by Zek View Post
Man, Kakuzu's powers are messed up. It seems to me like his personal element is Earth, and each of the masks have one of the other elements(Water being down for the count thanks to Kakashi). Maybe the masks each contain the soul of some powerful ninja or something. Kakuzu himself looks like a zombie, and I'm sure his face is a mess underneath that mask. I wonder if he's even really alive. The mask didn't actually have anything to do with why he survived that Raikiri, since it went clean through.
Well maybe it's like a video game where he has "lives" to spare. Like it killed his one of his lives. Besides, we've seen he can repair limbs (and even a head) quickly, it's not out of the possibility that once Kakashi withdrew his arm everything came back together quickly. Still, Kakuzu...overpowered beyond belief. I agree with the poster that said this doesn't feel like ninjas anymore...
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Old 2006-12-07, 15:45   Link #59
Big_Papi
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theres only one thing to say.... Kakuzu owned Kakashi... the end.....
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Old 2006-12-07, 15:49   Link #60
Mr. Johnny 5
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He said something like he can control Wind, Earth, Lighting then what was the fourth?

Since the fourth (ghost) died right? Water or Fire? Or did the earth ghost die? And the fire one is still there?
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