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Old 2006-12-10, 00:12   Link #21
Xrayz0r
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijuu Killer View Post
Apperantly, you didn't read what Yamato said. If the wind was stronger, it would only accomplish to strengthen the fire.
No Yamato did not say that. Power difference was not mentioned.

And according to your theory, Sasuke's genin Gokakyou at the start of the series would totally pwn Kakuzu's ultimate wind jutsu =p

Quote:
Yeah, and it was said only Yondaime and Jirayia can do Rasengan. Only an Uchiha can learn the MS. Have you noticed something yet?
Haha. No it wasn't.

It was never stated only Yondaime and Jiraiya could do Rasengan. It was never stated only an Uchiha could gain MS. (lol@people making crap up)

On the contrary, Kakashi explained in full detail why both he and Yondaime could NEVER apply physical recomposition to Rasengan, and Naruto can.

You actually brought up this theory while apparently having missed the ENTIRE point of Kakashi explaining Naruto and the reason he had to continue on his own because Kakashi has just got NO idea of how to do this thing. He even mentioned "even the fourth wouldn't be able to do it like this, Naruto".

Haha.
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Old 2006-12-10, 00:58   Link #22
Bijuu Killer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
No Yamato did not say that. Power difference was not mentioned.

And according to your theory, Sasuke's genin Gokakyou at the start of the series would totally pwn Kakuzu's ultimate wind jutsu =p
I'm not talking about power difference, but elemental justu.

Quote:
Haha. No it wasn't.

It was never stated only Yondaime and Jiraiya could do Rasengan. It was never stated only an Uchiha could gain MS. (lol@people making crap up)
Sorry, it was, and apparently you believed it.

Quote:
On the contrary, Kakashi explained in full detail why both he and Yondaime could NEVER apply physical recomposition to Rasengan, and Naruto can.

You actually brought up this theory while apparently having missed the ENTIRE point of Kakashi explaining Naruto and the reason he had to continue on his own because Kakashi has just got NO idea of how to do this thing. He even mentioned "even the fourth wouldn't be able to do it like this, Naruto".

Haha.
You seem to have missed how Kakashi is a true genius, that he is called the copy ninja. And of course he know "how to do this thing". It was his idea in the first place!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_Gaara View Post
Sasuke definitly know S-rank jutsos, Oro knows forbiden tecniques that are for sure S-Rank, but you're right on the new rasengan it's even higher than S-rank
Indeed. Sasuke knows a jutsu so powerful Oro had to stop him.

Last edited by Bijuu Killer; 2006-12-10 at 04:03.
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Old 2006-12-10, 06:53   Link #23
Xrayz0r
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijuu Killer View Post
I'm not talking about power difference, but elemental justu.
Dude. Don't use that cheap way to try and talk your way out of this.

You said: a Wind jutsu of a higher level would only make a Fire jutsu of a lower level stronger.

Facts say: that is wrong! I repeat: WRONG! Haha.

Yamato mentioned that wind would make fire stronger ONLY if both jutsu are on the same level. Thus, if Naruto's jutsu is at any level higher than whatever Katon jutsu Sasuke uses, he will NOT be making the fire stronger. Instead, he will simply overpower the jutsu.

Quote:
Sorry, it was, and apparently you believed it.
Hey, kid.

It was never stated that only Yondaime and Jiraiya know Rasengan. In fact, that is a super bunch of crap that I laugh at because it was made up by someone who's trying to talk his way out of something.

So far as MS goes.... hahaha, you just go and provide me the manga page where it says that only Uchiha can obtain it. Haha.

Quote:
You seem to have missed how Kakashi is a true genius, that he is called the copy ninja. And of course he know "how to do this thing". It was his idea in the first place!
Haha.

You never cease to astonish.


K lemme explain.

Kakashi, has already TRIED to do this. He has tried countless times and considered everything he could possibly come up with, and in the end couldn't do it. Now Naruto came up with some kind of trick, probably the only one, and even then he admits Yondaime would never be able to do it that way, let alone himself.

Genius only goes up to a certain point, lol.

Kakashi is a genius. He started investigating what he managed to copy (yes, I said copy) from Itachi and found a way to use it as well, without having to fill any requirement.

Beforehand, he KNEW he was able to do such a thing, and then he decided to also TRY it. (meaning, he knew his level of "genius" was high enough for him to develop that jutsu, unlike this time)

This time, he HAS tried it, and is totally convinced that he will NEVER be able to do it no matter how long or hard he tries.

That's some large ass difference. And unfortunately for you, it won't work out.
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Old 2006-12-10, 07:13   Link #24
Bijuu Killer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
Dude. Don't use that cheap way to try and talk your way out of this.

You said: a Wind jutsu of a higher level would only make a Fire jutsu of a lower level stronger.

Facts say: that is wrong! I repeat: WRONG! Haha.

Yamato mentioned that wind would make fire stronger ONLY if both jutsu are on the same level. Thus, if Naruto's jutsu is at any level higher than whatever Katon jutsu Sasuke uses, he will NOT be making the fire stronger. Instead, he will simply overpower the jutsu.
You misunderstood.

Quote:
Hey, kid.

It was never stated that only Yondaime and Jiraiya know Rasengan. In fact, that is a super bunch of crap that I laugh at because it was made up by someone who's trying to talk his way out of something.
Yes, it was. Tsunade stated this. I would show you, but it's not allowed to post manga pages, my apologies.

Quote:
So far as MS goes.... hahaha, you just go and provide me the manga page where it says that only Uchiha can obtain it. Haha.
Itachi was quite direct when he said Kakashi can't get MS, it would be impossible. Look how shocked he was to learn the truth.

Quote:
K lemme explain.

Kakashi, has already TRIED to do this. He has tried countless times and considered everything he could possibly come up with, and in the end couldn't do it. Now Naruto came up with some kind of trick, probably the only one, and even then he admits Yondaime would never be able to do it that way, let alone himself.
It was Kakashi who came up with Kage bunshin training, he said this is suited for Naruto. Also, when he said he can't do this like Naruto, ithis can only mean he will be able to find another way. Once again, it's possible Kakashi will develop a new jutsu with lightning element, it will be different from Naruto's wind rasengan, so your point how "only Naruto can do this" is moot. Kakashi is a genius, he use different path to get the results and surprise everyone. remember this!

Quote:
Genius only goes up to a certain point, lol.
With Kakashi, it go to the point where he master an Uchiha bloodline technique. Compared to this, creating a higher Rasengan is a piece of cake!!

Quote:
Kakashi is a genius.
No shit? This is what I'm trying to tell you, sherlock.

Quote:
He started investigating what he managed to copy (yes, I said copy) from Itachi and found a way to use it as well, without having to fill any requirement.
Tell me, if Kakashi copy Itachi's technique, why isn't it Tsukiyomi he used? Instead he show a whole different technique.

Quote:
Beforehand, he KNEW he was able to do such a thing, and then he decided to also TRY it. (meaning, he knew his level of "genius" was high enough for him to develop that jutsu, unlike this time)
Show me the evidence where this is stated.

Quote:
This time, he HAS tried it, and is totally convinced that he will NEVER be able to do it no matter how long or hard he tries.
Like Naruto told Kakashi he would never be able to do it during the training? That should tell you. Your logic actually says Naruto can't develop this jutsu either.
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Old 2006-12-10, 07:30   Link #25
Xrayz0r
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Quote:
You misunderstood.
"You misunderstood"

Now THAT is one LARGE-ass uncounterable fatass argument I would NEVER be able to defeat.

But let me just throw an attempt.

"Apperantly, you didn't read what Yamato said. If the wind was stronger, it would only accomplish to strengthen the fire." - Bijuu killer

"So if you countered Sasuke's fire jutsu with a wind jutsu of the same strength, you'd only make the fire stronger" - Yamato

Quote:
Yes, it was. Tsunade stated this. I would show you, but it's not allowed to post manga pages, my apologies.
Let me just teach you a life lesson.

What people say, isn't always right ;D

Things are officially "stated" when Kishimoto himself states them. Not if one of his characters states it. Because when one of his characters states it, that means all we got to know is the extent of someone's knowledge.

Tsunade saying only Jiraiya and Yondaime could perform Rasengan ONLY means that SHE thought that only those two could do it. I can't help if she never managed to find out that Kakashi copied it and could perform it as well. I don't give a damn. Fact is, Kakashi could do it all along, and Tsunade did not know it.

Quote:
Itachi was quite direct when he said Kakashi can't get MS, it would be impossible. Look how shocked he was to learn the truth.
I repeat: Itachi did never say Kakashi would never be able to obtain MS.

What you are probably referring to, is when Itachi said only another Uchiha could defeat him. Because he ASSUMED that MS is something that no one can overcome without having it him/herself, and he figured Kakashi would never be capable of copying/obtaining it.

Either way, he never directly literally stated that "Kakashi can not achieve MS".

And even if he did, it would still be huge ass specultion on his part. Yet again, no official "statement" by Kishimoto.

lol.

Quote:
No shit? This is what I'm trying to tell you, sherlock.
Don't try to be funny especially when your IQ has been making yourself look funny while others read your previous posts and my replies.

You should not have quoted that slight part of my post, YOU KNOW THAT, because it only had relevance to what I was going to say later on.

Let me just clear it up for you yet again.

However, I take it from your replies that either you're not capable of understanding what I'm actually pointing out, or perhaps you DO but rather not admit defeat it in front of everyone who goes to this forum and laughs his ass off.

I'll point it out short, straight and clear for you:

Kakashi has tried to develop this jutsu, and came to the conclusion he would never be able to do it.

Quote:
Tell me, if Kakashi copy Itachi's technique, why isn't it Tsukiyomi he used? Instead he show a whole different technique.
Bwhaha.

I did not say he copied the technique. I said he learned something from what he saw (backed up by a statement on the front page of a chapter somewhere in the save Gaara arc, which said: "the fruit of Kakashi's experience"), and found a way himself to tap into the power that the eye holds without having to actually achieve MS. Or, achieve it the normal way.

Quote:
Like Naruto told Kakashi he would never be able to do it during the training? That should tell you. Your logic actually says Naruto can't develop this jutsu either.
This part of the discussion is over.

I suggest you just leave it.. don't lay your rep on the line man. The longer you continue, the more people who will read the posts, and it will only lower your rep and eventually gain you a title on the forum you don't wish to have.

Last edited by Xrayz0r; 2006-12-10 at 07:43.
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Old 2006-12-10, 09:38   Link #26
Juruzu
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*offtopic XD
lol Naruto vs. Kakashi
(how come a sharighan user is always involved in these things)
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Old 2006-12-10, 10:03   Link #27
ri0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijuu Killer View Post
Apperantly, you didn't read what Yamato said. If the wind was stronger, it would only accomplish to strengthen the fire.
False... Reread the part. Perhaps you'll understand.
Quote:
Yeah, and it was said only Yondaime and Jirayia can do Rasengan. Only an Uchiha can learn the MS. Have you noticed something yet?
Those were statements about other people. Kakashi said he couldn't do it regarding himself. I think he will know the best what he is capable of and what not.
Quote:
Also, when he said he can't do this like Naruto
Mine translation says:
"the strongest ninjutsu ONLY YOU can do". Nothing about how to do it.
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Old 2006-12-10, 10:50   Link #28
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afaik, raikiri is chidori, isn't it? where did u see the diference between them?

simply put it: Rasengan is a jutsu with molded chakra to the maximum in terms of shapping (spheres are perfect forms in nature) , wich chidori isn't, aswell know it has an element into it, making it strong in two ways. Besides, wind has advantage over lightning.
If wind rasengan is an S class jutsu it can outrun any s class jutsu as long as it keeps the elemental advantage.
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Old 2006-12-10, 11:22   Link #29
Xrayz0r
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinder View Post
afaik, raikiri is chidori, isn't it? where did u see the diference between them?

simply put it: Rasengan is a jutsu with molded chakra to the maximum in terms of shapping (spheres are perfect forms in nature) , wich chidori isn't, aswell know it has an element into it, making it strong in two ways. Besides, wind has advantage over lightning.
If wind rasengan is an S class jutsu it can outrun any s class jutsu as long as it keeps the elemental advantage.
Yeah well Raikiri is Chidori technically speaking, but as you can also see by both the color and the effect of the chakra, Raikiri requires a larger amount and also probably the highest level of elemental recomposition lightning. Raikiri is blue whereas Chidori is white and looks less spectacular with all the chakra flowing around.

And if Raikiri with its seemingly rather low level of spatial recomposition (compared to Rasengan anyways) is S ranked, then indeed what Naruto will develop is even higher than that, as Kakashi thought so himself. Cause without doubt, there won't be comparing Raikiri to wind Rasengan once it's done. It's on a completely different level.
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Old 2006-12-10, 11:36   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
Let me just teach you a life lesson.

What people say, isn't always right ;D

Things are officially "stated" when Kishimoto himself states them. Not if one of his characters states it. Because when one of his characters states it, that means all we got to know is the extent of someone's knowledge.

Tsunade saying only Jiraiya and Yondaime could perform Rasengan ONLY means that SHE thought that only those two could do it. I can't help if she never managed to find out that Kakashi copied it and could perform it as well. I don't give a damn. Fact is, Kakashi could do it all along, and Tsunade did not know it.
Two things, what a character says is what Kishimoto states by himself, so this are facts until proven otherwise.

Second, Kishimoto did say himself the only users of Rasengan are Yondaime, Naruto and Jiraiya. it seems Kishi had a change of heart.
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Old 2006-12-10, 12:10   Link #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
Yeah well Raikiri is Chidori technically speaking, but as you can also see by both the color and the effect of the chakra, Raikiri requires a larger amount and also probably the highest level of elemental recomposition lightning. Raikiri is blue whereas Chidori is white and looks less spectacular with all the chakra flowing around.
Actually both are white. The first time the Raikiri/Chidori was used in the anime the color was unknown so they just used the color they had chosen for regular chakra in the anime.
Then the 1st Data Book came out and stated how it produced a white glow so they made the Chidori white instead of blue.
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Old 2006-12-10, 12:14   Link #32
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They're suposed to have difrent colors because they have difrent chakra concentration! Raikiri has the chakra a lot more concentrated !
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Old 2006-12-10, 15:37   Link #33
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For something like lightning to overpower wind, the wind user would have to be totally outclassed, something like a genin vs a juunin. This would have to be the case if they are equal power and lightning enhances wind. To simply null the stronger element out, it would have to be massively powerful in contrast, in which case it would still be wildly stupid of a juunin to do, since he should have another element anyways.

I doubt Oro or Sasuke is too worried about one jutsu, Sasuke has a plethora of fire jutsu, and it is hard to say if Naruto's technique will even null a high powered fire attack.
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Last edited by Dauthi; 2006-12-10 at 15:49.
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Old 2006-12-10, 15:58   Link #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
This time, he HAS tried it, and is totally convinced that he will NEVER be able to do it no matter how long or hard he tries.
Haha, this could explain why Kakashi's hand was bandaged up XD. Maybe he used a Kage Bunshin and tried to do what Naruto was doing (maybe he tried lightning minipulation) and the shit exploded in his face lolololol.

Go Naruto!
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Old 2006-12-10, 16:02   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijuu_Killer
Rurik you have just proved what a hypocrite this guy Xrayzor is, it saved me time. We shouldn't deal with people like this, and just ignore them.
Funny that this sentence comes from you, the person who fights in another thread against the word of one of Kishimoto's characters^^
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Old 2006-12-10, 17:05   Link #36
Bijuu Killer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Two things, what a character says is what Kishimoto states by himself, so this are facts until proven otherwise.

Second, Kishimoto did say himself the only users of Rasengan are Yondaime, Naruto and Jiraiya. it seems Kishi had a change of heart.
Rurik you have just proved what a hypocrite this guy Xrayzor is, it saved me time. We shouldn't deal with people like this, and just ignore them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0 View Post
Funny that this sentence comes from you, the person who fights in another thread against the word of one of Kishimoto's characters^^
I really think you have a mistranslation, but this wouldn't be your fault, so my apologies. Meanwhile I try to find a good translator who can tell us. ^^
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Old 2006-12-10, 17:21   Link #37
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Originally Posted by Bijuu Killer View Post
I really think you have a mistranslation, but this wouldn't be your fault, so my apologies. Meanwhile I try to find a good translator who can tell us. ^^
No, I mean the part with Sakura
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Old 2006-12-10, 17:22   Link #38
Bijuu Killer
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No, I mean the part with Sakura
Huh? What about Sakura?
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Old 2006-12-10, 17:31   Link #39
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Oh sorry my bad... I thought you were another poster^^
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Old 2006-12-10, 18:11   Link #40
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naruto could easily kill sousuke with one wind rasengan vs chidori/raikiri, the problem is sasuke might avoid a 1v1 rasengan vs chidori head on thing, and the fact that he doesnt want to kill sasuke
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