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Old 2013-06-11, 20:56   Link #381
Dirty_Harry
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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
Yes, that's the point. It could do well even with the traditional battle system. They just draw in different folks. The main point of JRPG isn't mostly the battle system.

I myself appreciate both system for what they are. I could enjoy Legend of Heroes, Etrian Oddyssey, Final Fantasy or thing like Fable, Dragon Dogma (no Skyrim. I just hate it). I don't understand why would people want to force WRPG's element onto JRPG and vice versa.
Real-time combat is not necessarily an WRPG's element. Turn-based combat is an element in most traditional WRPGs.
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Old 2013-06-11, 21:03   Link #382
amaterasu4
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I believe most of the cast is male because it appears to be modeled after mafia families.
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Old 2013-06-11, 21:10   Link #383
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Yea I got the mafia vibe from the trailer too. First? Never seen that done before XD
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Old 2013-06-11, 21:31   Link #384
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Apparently it's based off of both Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet, or at least it was some years ago.
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Old 2013-06-11, 21:35   Link #385
Von Himmel
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Well I'll be damned, didn't expect the gameplay actually looks like that I guess some 'special events' with party Co-op is something like assist system. I saw that cloud-like guy 'teleported' near Noctis before touching his shoulder to do his attack, which implies that's one of his assist animation.

..hopefully the party system isn't limited at that and that we can actually use the party member.
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Old 2013-06-11, 22:07   Link #386
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This game looks fucking awesome.
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Old 2013-06-11, 22:08   Link #387
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
Yes, that's the point. It could do well even with the traditional battle system. They just draw in different folks. The main point of JRPG isn't mostly the battle system.

I myself appreciate both system for what they are. I could enjoy Legend of Heroes, Etrian Oddyssey, Final Fantasy or thing like Fable, Dragon Dogma (no Skyrim. I just hate it). I don't understand why would people want to force WRPG's element onto JRPG and vice versa.
Why wouldn't you want the game to be awesome in all respects? It's like you seem to think the game can't have good characters or story if the combat is good. The two concepts aren't mutually exclusive.

Besides, if you're going to go turn-based, menu-driven is a terrible way to do it. Fallout's AP system is vastly superior.
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Old 2013-06-11, 22:15   Link #388
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Meh, If it has to be turn based I'd prefer menu-driven actually. I never really liked how the combat in Fallout worked.
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Old 2013-06-11, 22:26   Link #389
synaesthetic
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Menu-driven is just so hands-off though. At least Fallout's system takes full advantage of the combat not being real-time, allowing you to strategically place your units, to make called shots to specific body parts... the system borrows heavily from old-school turn-based wargames (of which I am quite fond).
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Old 2013-06-11, 22:32   Link #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Besides, if you're going to go turn-based, menu-driven is a terrible way to do it. Fallout's AP system is vastly superior.
ő_ő
The AP system had so many flaws.
Nothing wrong with turn-based+menus, I think FFX got it right.
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Old 2013-06-11, 22:32   Link #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Menu-driven is just so hands-off though. At least Fallout's system takes full advantage of the combat not being real-time, allowing you to strategically place your units, to make called shots to specific body parts... the system borrows heavily from old-school turn-based wargames (of which I am quite fond).
In the end though it's all about what you are fond of. Most of my favorite games I go back to replay are menu-driven turn based games. It's still plenty fun to look at what you are up against, decide the tactics of your party, and then just unleash hell onto your enemy !

It's a circular debate though. Either you like a certain style or you don't. Both sides repeating why they like a certain side doesn't get you too far.
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Old 2013-06-11, 22:39   Link #392
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This is true; however there's a reason why the menu-driven JRPGs are doing poorly financially while the more action-oriented Western-style RPGs are selling by the truckload. Subjective opinion may not have a "right" or "wrong" way of doing things, but you have to remember this is a business--and a business definitely has a "right" and "wrong" way of doing things.

Watch Extra Credits "JRPG vs. WRPG" series if you want more information about this trend in the industry.
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Old 2013-06-11, 22:52   Link #393
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
This is true; however there's a reason why the menu-driven JRPGs are doing poorly financially while the more action-oriented Western-style RPGs are selling by the truckload. Subjective opinion may not have a "right" or "wrong" way of doing things, but you have to remember this is a business--and a business definitely has a "right" and "wrong" way of doing things.
I'm pretty sure Pokémon still has a gigantic fanbase.

I do agree that Westerners tend to like pick up and play games though. Not many like a long (and possibly convoluted) story that takes some time to pick up either.

Last edited by Shadow5YA; 2013-06-11 at 23:12.
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Old 2013-06-11, 23:06   Link #394
synaesthetic
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What does story have to do with combat system?

I swear, it's like you people are completely incapable of understanding that a good story, good characters and a good combat system are not mutually exclusive.
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Old 2013-06-11, 23:07   Link #395
Tong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
This is true; however there's a reason why the menu-driven JRPGs are doing poorly financially while the more action-oriented Western-style RPGs are selling by the truckload. Subjective opinion may not have a "right" or "wrong" way of doing things, but you have to remember this is a business--and a business definitely has a "right" and "wrong" way of doing things.

Watch Extra Credits "JRPG vs. WRPG" series if you want more information about this trend in the industry.
RPGs are niche games of sorts, so you can't expect it to sell like FPS's and Sports games.
Changing the whole gameplay style in new sequels may attract more and new players, but not without losing your old fanbase.
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Old 2013-06-11, 23:12   Link #396
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
What does story have to do with combat system?
Depending on the RPG, plenty. Many have scripted battles and abilities gained only through the story.
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Old 2013-06-11, 23:15   Link #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
What does story have to do with combat system?

I swear, it's like you people are completely incapable of understanding that a good story, good characters and a good combat system are not mutually exclusive.
I don't know what to say about that other than I'm more into the story aspect when it comes to RPGs. If the characters are identifiable to the point where you can care about them, and a story that can grip you intensely than it's a work of art in my book.

Final Fantasy VIII, sure I wasn't a fan of the whole Junction system, but the characters and the story were enough for me to play through the game intently. Good story and characters go hand in hand in this genre, combat is good if it's implemented right, but overall experience outside of it is what matters to me at the end of it all.
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Old 2013-06-11, 23:17   Link #398
synaesthetic
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Maybe ya'll are fine with dealing with bad combat in exchange for good story--and I did this when I was younger as well--but I don't tolerate that anymore.

I don't want bad anything--I'd rather have good everything. If the games can't give me good everything then I just won't play games. I don't have to be playing games; I can read books, watch movies, do all sorts of things.

As I get older, my standards start to become more and more strict.
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Old 2013-06-11, 23:21   Link #399
finalfury
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Originally Posted by Clarami View Post
I don't know what to say about that other than I'm more into the story aspect when it comes to RPGs. If the characters are identifiable to the point where you can care about them, and a story that can grip you intensely than it's a work of art in my book.

Final Fantasy VIII, sure I wasn't a fan of the whole Junction system, but the characters and the story were enough for me to play through the game intently. Good story and characters go hand in hand in this genre, combat is good if it's implemented right, but overall experience outside of it is what matters to me at the end of it all.
I fully agree with this. This post is full of win.
IMO, the reason why wrpgs sell like hotcakes is likely due to the open world and the freedom to do what you want. I also remember that despite having a more action oriented battle system, DA2 was considered to be the inferior game when compared to DA Origins. Or that was all a dream and the events pertaining to the DA2 bashing were nothing more than a hallucination.
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Old 2013-06-11, 23:40   Link #400
synaesthetic
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Endless waves of bandits does not an action-based combat system make. DA2's combat is best described as "watered-down World of Warcraft." You click tiles and wait for cooldowns. It is not, not, NOT real-time action combat.

You do not press a button to raise your shield and block. You do not aim your spells by placing the crosshairs on the enemy and casting. You cannot dodge an enemy attack by physically dodging the enemy attack. Everything is determined by a dice roll. It's no different than menu-driven combat--the only difference is the menus are replaced by clicky-tiles and the ATB bar is replaced by cooldown timers.
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