AnimeSuki Forums

Iron Maw · 2012-07-20, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.A.

Terrible news have been going on today: http://kotaku.com/5927645/rumor-fina...s-xiii-is-dead

Seems like Square Enix is really not doing well, combined with the CEO supposedly announcing that they will stop doing non mainstream games and that anyone opposing that would be fired, the staff morale would definitely be crushed.

Well not exactly:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1...asutra+News%29

It sounds their plan to make internal development practices for consoles games like those of western studios. Which generally means the core staff handles the game design and whatnot and much of the grunt work (modeling, animations, etc) will be outsourced to different companies for the projects to come out faster. The issue here is how much in-house staff will be let go (if they do that). Regardless Versus is likely the last time they will develop a game traditionally as before to better meet project goals.

Quote:

EDIT: Seems like the internets is raging about it and, http://thesilentchief.com/2012/07/20...d-not-so-fast/

Not surprised, if it were really cancelled I doubt SE could hide it from the shareholders and a much bigger stink would be coming out of Japan.

Xellos-_^ · 2012-07-20, 17:07

just let SE die, i will always treasure my memories playing old Enix and Square Soft games. But Square Enix has never been as good together then when both companies were separate.

Just let it die.

Iron Maw · 2012-07-20, 17:40

I don't see why they need to die. Their overall HD console developments has been all kinds of a clusterfuck (FFXII-2, The Last Remnant withstanding), however the handheld stuff is one of the best around. SE is in a lot better postition than some other game companies like Konami or, Tri-ace.

TWENTY, KH:BBS & KH3D, FF Type-0, FFIVDS, Theaterhythm, Dissida series Tactics Ogre etc have all either been great or solid. Bravely Default seems like it's going to continue the trend, and the company looking better prepare to enter next gen thanks to having a proper middleware engine like Luminous Studios.

Edge Meltdown · 2012-07-21, 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

just let SE die, i will always treasure my memories playing old Enix and Square Soft games. But Square Enix has never been as good together then when both companies were separate.

Just let it die.

That's too cold don't you think? At least, let them finish vsXIII first and then let them flush themselves out of the toilet for all we care. After XIII-2 and toriyama taking in charge of this gen's FF series, I kinda stop believing on SE to make anymore memorable FF games. Unless, something miraculous happens.

Kaioshin Sama · 2012-07-21, 03:50

Not sure of the truth of all this mostly cause it's a gawker article and specifically cause it's by Brian "Stir the pot for hits" Ashcraft, but honestly it wouldn't surprise me. Frankly the last generation for Square Enix has been nothing short of a total disaster to their reputation and this game has already been in development an improbably long time with only sporadic news here and there. I don't know, somehow I think the project is still alive for now, but this whole Fabula Novella Crystalis thing seems like it's going to be remembered as another moment like Spirits Within where Square bit off more than they could chew. It was that debacle that made them what they are today in Square Enix, maybe this can be the debacle that leads to another shaking up.

Honestly I really do think they need a fresh start and new outlook. I thought Wada would fix things, but I don't think he's managed a single good thing since becoming president of the company. Their output and catalogue has been severely reduced almost to just FF and Kingdom Hearts, he's always late to react to consumer dissatisfaction, the practices of the company under his watch are clearly having an adverse affect on key personnel's health judging by the rash of departures under his watch. I think it's past time for him to go and then talk can be done within the company on what can be done to right the ship. There's still plenty of potential in Square Enix and so much they could do well but they're wasting it right now on lofty ambitions and strange visions.

Mateus · 2012-07-21, 05:08

I've said it for years, and I'll say it again; Square needs to go back to its roots. They had the right idea with X, they were close but not quite there - and XII was good (despite what others thought). If more people would rather play the FFIV sequels and remakes than the Trilogy of XIII then what does that say? In all likeliness it will probably have most (if not all) connections to XIII removed and be retitled: Final Fantasy XV.

DonQuigleone · 2012-07-23, 13:29

Square's output of late has seemed a bit top heavy in my view. They have been long trying to produce "movie games", focusing most of their efforts on developing snazzy graphics and "streamlining" (IE butchering) gameplay. Not only that, but judged as movies their latest offerings have been awful. Watching the cut scenes of FFXIII made want to tear my ears out for it's poor voice acting, and more so it's sickly sweet writing, which made me embarrassed to be playing it.

I see plenty of examples of other Japanese RPG developers that have managed to avoid this (Atlus and MonolithSoft come to mind).

I'd like to see the following from Squenix:
1. Focus on the fundamentals, get the gameplay to a satisfactory level before trying to amp up your graphics. You can't polish a turd. And eliminate bugs...

2. Hire high quality professional writers, if you want your game to be of movie quality, it needs a movie quality screenplay. Not a game quality screenplay (where typically the story is an fterthought made to fit the requirements of the game). There's plenty of quality screenwriters knocking about the anime industry. if you're willing to spend 10s of millions of graphics, fork out a million to ensure the writing is sound.

3. Up your voice acting. Western developers have shown themselves capable of finding quality English speaking talent, why can't you? And also, very high pitched voices might work in Japanese, but in English they're just annoying...

4. If you can't go to the effort of putting out good English voice acting, at least give us access to the Japanese voice track. Plenty of other Japanese RPG producers have been perfectly able to do so.

/rant The golden day when Square would produce a great game almost every year has long since past. I can't think of an blockbuster universally acclaimed title that they've developed since their merger with Enix, except maybe The World Ends With You.

Kafriel · 2012-07-23, 14:08

Quote:

1. Focus on the fundamentals, get the gameplay to a satisfactory level before trying to amp up your graphics. You can't polish a turd. And eliminate bugs...

This is the most important part for me. The gameplay changes between 7,8,9 and 10 and 12 gives them a damn good right to call them different games, they all had different gameplay (limit breaks in VII, junction in VIII, trance and character-specific skills in IX, weapon customization and the grid from X, gambits and license system in XII), a good share of mini-games (G. Saucer, triple triad/tetra master, chocobo hunts albeit underdeveloped in FVIII, blitzball in X, etc.) and a lot of secret items and side dungeons to explore (XII marks was a good idea, although personally fighting a boss whose HP runs in the millions with a 10k-1 dmg cap is not exactly "fun").

Duo Maxwell · 2012-07-23, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

4. If you can't go to the effort of putting out good English voice acting, at least give us access to the Japanese voice track. Plenty of other Japanese RPG producers have been perfectly able to do so.

Well, there are, but I don't know why only Chinese versions have access to Japanese voice with English text.

Xellos-_^ · 2012-07-23, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Well, there are, but I don't know why only Chinese versions have access to Japanese voice with English text.

are the Chinese ver region code?

Kaioshin Sama · 2012-07-23, 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Square's output of late has seemed a bit top heavy in my view. They have been long trying to produce "movie games", focusing most of their efforts on developing snazzy graphics and "streamlining" (IE butchering) gameplay. Not only that, but judged as movies their latest offerings have been awful. Watching the cut scenes of FFXIII made want to tear my ears out for it's poor voice acting, and more so it's sickly sweet writing, which made me embarrassed to be playing it.

I see plenty of examples of other Japanese RPG developers that have managed to avoid this (Atlus and MonolithSoft come to mind).

I think in the case of Atlus the games just have far more carefully considered writing and development for the characters and not to mention a whole lot darker tone. They also have totally different philsophies in game design this generation. Square's theory of design is to move you along and have you act as a by stander watching cutscenes of characters interacting a lot of the time, whereas Atlus puts you more in the shoes of your main character and allows you to chose the events you undertake typically (using Persona's calendar system here as an example) thus giving you a more personal interaction with the characters and allowing you to get progressively more and more inside their head as you get to know them more.

It's all a matter of control allowed to the player that comes down to the difference between FFXIII and just about every other JRPG franchise out there. Even take Tales of Graces now which I'm playing through. You can chose which skits you want to view, which sidequests you want to undertake, how you want to develop your characters AND you have full control over them in the battle system. In FFXIII you have no control over what quests you undertake cause there are none, you have no choice but to view each cutscene along the way even for characters you don't like (though you can skip them) and you have very little control over how you develop your characters or the battle system. Your options therein are to follow the rather linear progression of the crystarium system and to take advantage of the break/staggering system as your means to winning a fight. You're biggest contribution is how you set up the paradigms and when to shift them which most of the time is a no brainer. Not exactly involving gameplay even if the quality of the story is about the same as Tales of Graces.

DonQuigleone · 2012-07-23, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I think in the case of Atlus the games just have far more carefully considered writing and development for the characters and not to mention a whole lot darker tone. They also have totally different philsophies in game design this generation. Square's theory of design is to move you along and have you act as a by stander watching cutscenes of characters interacting a lot of the time, whereas Atlus puts you more in the shoes of your main character and allows you to chose the events you undertake typically (using Persona's calendar system here as an example) thus giving you a more personal interaction with the characters and allowing you to get progressively more and more inside their head as you get to know them more.

It's all a matter of control allowed to the player that comes down to the difference between FFXIII and just about every other JRPG franchise out there. Even take Tales of Graces now which I'm playing through. You can chose which skits you want to view, which sidequests you want to undertake, how you want to develop your characters AND you have full control over them in the battle system. In FFXIII you have no control over what quests you undertake cause there are none, you have no choice but to view each cutscene along the way even for characters you don't like (though you can skip them) and you have very little control over how you develop your characters or the battle system. Your options therein are to follow the rather linear progression of the crystarium system and to take advantage of the break/staggering system as your means to winning a fight. You're biggest contribution is how you set up the paradigms and when to shift them which most of the time is a no brainer. Not exactly involving gameplay even if the quality of the story is about the same as Tales of Graces.

I'd say Atlus has it right. That said, all JRPGs are built on less choice then most Western RPGs, not necessarily a bad thing as it allows more opportunties for Drama. But you can take things too far. FFXIII took things so far that it ceased to have much point as a game. Why didn't they just make a movie?

Oh yeah, when they tried that it bombed.

Xagzan · 2012-07-23, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Square's output of late has seemed a bit top heavy in my view. They have been long trying to produce "movie games", focusing most of their efforts on developing snazzy graphics and "streamlining" (IE butchering) gameplay. Not only that, but judged as movies their latest offerings have been awful. Watching the cut scenes of FFXIII made want to tear my ears out for it's poor voice acting, and more so it's sickly sweet writing, which made me embarrassed to be playing it.

I see plenty of examples of other Japanese RPG developers that have managed to avoid this (Atlus and MonolithSoft come to mind).

I'd like to see the following from Squenix:
1. Focus on the fundamentals, get the gameplay to a satisfactory level before trying to amp up your graphics. You can't polish a turd. And eliminate bugs...

2. Hire high quality professional writers, if you want your game to be of movie quality, it needs a movie quality screenplay. Not a game quality screenplay (where typically the story is an fterthought made to fit the requirements of the game). There's plenty of quality screenwriters knocking about the anime industry. if you're willing to spend 10s of millions of graphics, fork out a million to ensure the writing is sound.

3. Up your voice acting. Western developers have shown themselves capable of finding quality English speaking talent, why can't you? And also, very high pitched voices might work in Japanese, but in English they're just annoying...

4. If you can't go to the effort of putting out good English voice acting, at least give us access to the Japanese voice track. Plenty of other Japanese RPG producers have been perfectly able to do so.

/rant The golden day when Square would produce a great game almost every year has long since past. I can't think of an blockbuster universally acclaimed title that they've developed since their merger with Enix, except maybe The World Ends With You.

Hey now, the voice acting itself in 13 was pretty great. It was the horrible and grating dialogue that made the scenes embarrassing to watch amid company. But the VAs themselves did a wonderful job with what they were given (which wasn't much). Same goes for 13-2, whose script made me cringe even more I think (Seriously, how many times does a character need to blurt out some variation of the phrase "we're going to save the future!" before they stop? Answer: not before I start drinking)

DonQuigleone · 2012-07-23, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xagzan

Hey now, the voice acting itself in 13 was pretty great. It was the horrible and grating dialogue that made the scenes embarrassing to watch amid company. But the VAs themselves did a wonderful job with what they were given (which wasn't much). Same goes for 13-2, whose script made me cringe even more I think (Seriously, how many times does a character need to blurt out some variation of the phrase "we're going to save the future!" before they stop? Answer: not before I start drinking)

Maybe, but I found Vanille to be rather grating.

Looking them over, I think the talent for FFXIII actually had decent potential, but their lines were terrible (as you noted), but I also think their direction was also rather poor. You can have great voice talent, but you also need to have the directors to draw that talent out of them.

Mateus · 2012-07-23, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Maybe, but I found Vanille to be rather grating.

Looking them over, I think the talent for FFXIII actually had decent potential, but their lines were terrible (as you noted), but I also think their direction was also rather poor. You can have great voice talent, but you also need to have the directors to draw that talent out of them.

You're not the only one, it seemed as if she jumped from speaking with an American accent to Australian/British/Scottish hybrid or whatever.

And for the record I don't/haven't counted XIII as a game, like Xenosaga it's more of a movie to me - and when the time comes and the ganeplay shifts back to me I'm usually either A)asleep or B)shocked that I am able to (somewhat) control the main character of a movie.

Duo Maxwell · 2012-07-23, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

are the Chinese ver region code?

Nope. I play them fine with my US PS3.

kenjiharima · 2012-07-23, 21:21

How many years has it been since this was announced?

Clarami · 2012-07-23, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenjiharima

How many years has it been since this was announced?

I think six or plus years. Are you talking about the game or the cancel announcement? Either way the cancellation of this game just really kills me inside.

DonQuigleone · 2012-07-23, 22:24

To be honest, if it's been in development for years, a game is already fairly close to being vaporware.

Don't forget, it was advertised alongside FFXIII. Since then FFXIII and it's sequel have both come out, with few new details of this game seeing the light of day.

deathcoy · 2012-07-23, 22:39

The only reason i bought a PS3 was to play this game... I hope it doesnt become vaporware but it might likely go down that path...

2012-07-20, 17:07	Link #122
Xellos-_^ Married Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: R'lyeh Age: 37	just let SE die, i will always treasure my memories playing old Enix and Square Soft games. But Square Enix has never been as good together then when both companies were separate. Just let it die. __________________

2012-07-21, 05:08	Link #126
Mateus Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011	I've said it for years, and I'll say it again; Square needs to go back to its roots. They had the right idea with X, they were close but not quite there - and XII was good (despite what others thought). If more people would rather play the FFIV sequels and remakes than the Trilogy of XIII then what does that say? In all likeliness it will probably have most (if not all) connections to XIII removed and be retitled: Final Fantasy XV. __________________ Account closing soon, found original account, thanks. Last edited by Mateus; 2012-07-21 at 23:27.

2012-07-23, 21:21	Link #137
kenjiharima Mizore-chan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Moe Land Age: 32	How many years has it been since this was announced? __________________ Vampire+Sisters

2012-07-20, 17:40	Link #123
Iron Maw Rage Incarnate Join Date: Feb 2006	I don't see why they need to die. Their overall HD console developments has been all kinds of a clusterfuck (FFXII-2, The Last Remnant withstanding), however the handheld stuff is one of the best around. SE is in a lot better postition than some other game companies like Konami or, Tri-ace. TWENTY, KH:BBS & KH3D, FF Type-0, FFIVDS, Theaterhythm, Dissida series Tactics Ogre etc have all either been great or solid. Bravely Default seems like it's going to continue the trend, and the company looking better prepare to enter next gen thanks to having a proper middleware engine like Luminous Studios.

2012-07-21, 03:50	Link #125
Kaioshin Sama Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Neither Here nor There Age: 28	Not sure of the truth of all this mostly cause it's a gawker article and specifically cause it's by Brian "Stir the pot for hits" Ashcraft, but honestly it wouldn't surprise me. Frankly the last generation for Square Enix has been nothing short of a total disaster to their reputation and this game has already been in development an improbably long time with only sporadic news here and there. I don't know, somehow I think the project is still alive for now, but this whole Fabula Novella Crystalis thing seems like it's going to be remembered as another moment like Spirits Within where Square bit off more than they could chew. It was that debacle that made them what they are today in Square Enix, maybe this can be the debacle that leads to another shaking up. Honestly I really do think they need a fresh start and new outlook. I thought Wada would fix things, but I don't think he's managed a single good thing since becoming president of the company. Their output and catalogue has been severely reduced almost to just FF and Kingdom Hearts, he's always late to react to consumer dissatisfaction, the practices of the company under his watch are clearly having an adverse affect on key personnel's health judging by the rash of departures under his watch. I think it's past time for him to go and then talk can be done within the company on what can be done to right the ship. There's still plenty of potential in Square Enix and so much they could do well but they're wasting it right now on lofty ambitions and strange visions.

2012-07-23, 13:29	Link #127
DonQuigleone Knight Errant Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 24	Square's output of late has seemed a bit top heavy in my view. They have been long trying to produce "movie games", focusing most of their efforts on developing snazzy graphics and "streamlining" (IE butchering) gameplay. Not only that, but judged as movies their latest offerings have been awful. Watching the cut scenes of FFXIII made want to tear my ears out for it's poor voice acting, and more so it's sickly sweet writing, which made me embarrassed to be playing it. I see plenty of examples of other Japanese RPG developers that have managed to avoid this (Atlus and MonolithSoft come to mind). I'd like to see the following from Squenix: 1. Focus on the fundamentals, get the gameplay to a satisfactory level before trying to amp up your graphics. You can't polish a turd. And eliminate bugs... 2. Hire high quality professional writers, if you want your game to be of movie quality, it needs a movie quality screenplay. Not a game quality screenplay (where typically the story is an fterthought made to fit the requirements of the game). There's plenty of quality screenwriters knocking about the anime industry. if you're willing to spend 10s of millions of graphics, fork out a million to ensure the writing is sound. 3. Up your voice acting. Western developers have shown themselves capable of finding quality English speaking talent, why can't you? And also, very high pitched voices might work in Japanese, but in English they're just annoying... 4. If you can't go to the effort of putting out good English voice acting, at least give us access to the Japanese voice track. Plenty of other Japanese RPG producers have been perfectly able to do so. /rant The golden day when Square would produce a great game almost every year has long since past. I can't think of an blockbuster universally acclaimed title that they've developed since their merger with Enix, except maybe The World Ends With You.

2012-07-23, 22:24	Link #139
DonQuigleone Knight Errant Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 24	To be honest, if it's been in development for years, a game is already fairly close to being vaporware. Don't forget, it was advertised alongside FFXIII. Since then FFXIII and it's sequel have both come out, with few new details of this game seeing the light of day.

2012-07-23, 22:39	Link #140
deathcoy Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SG	The only reason i bought a PS3 was to play this game... I hope it doesnt become vaporware but it might likely go down that path...