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Old 2009-12-27, 06:55   Link #1501
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
On the side note I thought the fifth movie was the one that was easiest to make sense of .
The fifth one is the most stand-alone and relies least on bizarre wordplays like slaughter vs murder or flying vs floating. The actual message behind those wordplays is pretty simple and even a bit childish, but it gets confusing because there's also a lot of magibabble being thrown around. The 5th movie pretty much sticks to the magibabble.
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Old 2009-12-27, 10:14   Link #1502
physics223
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This was the best series I saw for the past three years.

Awesome, awesome, awesome series.
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Old 2009-12-27, 23:27   Link #1503
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
The fifth one is the most stand-alone and relies least on bizarre wordplays like slaughter vs murder or flying vs floating. The actual message behind those wordplays is pretty simple and even a bit childish, but it gets confusing because there's also a lot of magibabble being thrown around. The 5th movie pretty much sticks to the magibabble.
Probably the reason why I thought it was the clearest. The 5th movie reminded me bit of Baccano!, where the story wasn't in order but it wasn't confusing.
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Old 2009-12-28, 20:38   Link #1504
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Probably the reason why I thought it was the clearest. The 5th movie reminded me bit of Baccano!, where the story wasn't in order but it wasn't confusing.
Really? I personally, like you, found Baccano! fairly easy to follow as well. Yet the 5th movie gotten me fairly confused at particular scenes. I watched it a few times, yet in some scenes I don't see how the "multiple perspectives" come into play.

An example will be the scene when smoke comes billowing out and we see Araya sitting in a chair as he muttered, "Is that... a dream?" Why is this scene repeated? for all I know he is alone. Unless Alba is there... gah, I'm confused.
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Old 2009-12-29, 07:38   Link #1505
Clarste
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A lot of times scenes are repeated so you know when they're happening. It's the same logic as repeating a scene before and after a commercial break: so the audience gets some context for what happens next. It's to make it less confusing.
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Old 2009-12-29, 11:49   Link #1506
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Spoiler for Ep 7 spoiler:
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Old 2009-12-30, 01:51   Link #1507
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OK. Many people here are doing to this series what others have already done to other series such as Evangelion, and Ergo Proxy.

It seems that many feel that a lot of philosophical babbling is pure nonsense or really has no meaning, that it just exists to make the anime feel deep or intellectual.

I have a problem with that line of reasoning. This is what these criticisms sound like to me... "It's bad because it tries to sound smarter or more intelligent than what it really is." This is totally subjective. Yes there are times where things are put in there to perhaps be cool, like crosses often being used in animes as if they mean something (Evangelion), but it doesn't mean that anything of this nature is always pointless or nonsensical.

The example that people here have put out is "murder vs slaughter." Please tell me what was wrong with their line of reasoning? Maybe I'm stupid to like these sorts of things... Whatever.

Kara no Kyoukai may have had an interesting way to tell a story that confused many people, but in the end it should have been clear what the main struggle our main character, Shiki, had and how it was absolved.

I really loved the ending of this 7 chapter anime. I still think the 5th movie is the absolute gem of this entire show, but this was a very conclusive and most satisfying ending.

I give this movie a 9.5/10, and Kara no Kyoukai in general a 9.2/10. I am a sucker for Type-Moon works it seems.
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Old 2009-12-30, 07:51   Link #1508
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I have two question after watching the last episode, did Touko leave after all and do we know what happend to Shiki's brother ?
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Old 2009-12-30, 08:50   Link #1509
lightbringer
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I have a problem with that line of reasoning. This is what these criticisms sound like to me... "It's bad because it tries to sound smarter or more intelligent than what it really is." This is totally subjective. Yes there are times where things are put in there to perhaps be cool, like crosses often being used in animes as if they mean something (Evangelion), but it doesn't mean that anything of this nature is always pointless or nonsensical.
Everything we write here is totally subjective. Well, maybe almost everything. Nobody said that everything in KnK is techobabble/magic-babble/philosophy-babble, but it does suffer from these. Also, "It's bad because it tries to sound smarter or more intelligent than what it really is" really is bad, that's not particularly subjective - it really ruins the experience for any viewer who has half his or her brain switched on while watching. Just like a military show that does not follow basic concepts of war (or even laws of physics) is ruined for any military guru. Smart anime is not bad per se, only half-assed smart-sounding anime is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
The example that people here have put out is "murder vs slaughter." Please tell me what was wrong with their line of reasoning? Maybe I'm stupid to like these sorts of things... Whatever.
If I understood their message correctly, they would have you believe that you can only murder (in their definition, "kill out of emotion") once, after which you lose your humanity and become some kind of animal only capable of slaughter (which wasn't really clearly defined iirc but basically meant not killing out of love/hate). Sounds great on paper, makes for some great lines for the characters to say, but is simply not how things work in real life. There are plenty of people who continue to murder, and there are plenty of people who are deranged butchers to begin with. The bottom line, that killing a person changes you, is what they want to get at, but it's been embellished for the sake of drama to the point where it just sounds silly. Things coming out of left field for the sake of sounding smart do not really enhance my viewing experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I really loved the ending of this 7 chapter anime. I still think the 5th movie is the absolute gem of this entire show, but this was a very conclusive and most satisfying ending.
I also think the 5th movie was the best of the bunch, followed by the 3rd and 2nd. The ending of the 7th was satisfactory, although the journey to get there was prolonged more than strictly necessary (they could have used that time to plug some plot holes, like explaining what happened at the end of the 6th movie with Shiki's confrontation - one moment she's on the ground and the next moment she's calmly talking to her friends).
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Old 2009-12-30, 16:01   Link #1510
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
Everything we write here is totally subjective. Well, maybe almost everything. Nobody said that everything in KnK is techobabble/magic-babble/philosophy-babble, but it does suffer from these. Also, "It's bad because it tries to sound smarter or more intelligent than what it really is" really is bad, that's not particularly subjective - it really ruins the experience for any viewer who has half his or her brain switched on while watching. Just like a military show that does not follow basic concepts of war (or even laws of physics) is ruined for any military guru. Smart anime is not bad per se, only half-assed smart-sounding anime is.
That what I was saying was subjective... Determining whether something really is trying to sound smarter than it is.

Either way i don't consider Kara no Kyoukai to be something of incredible intelligence. I do admit that there is a degree of things just being added for effect as there in any such animes... But I just felt that people were exaggerating to what degree this was... The murder vs slaughter thing was just one of the points I disagreed with people on here about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
If I understood their message correctly, they would have you believe that you can only murder (in their definition, "kill out of emotion") once, after which you lose your humanity and become some kind of animal only capable of slaughter (which wasn't really clearly defined iirc but basically meant not killing out of love/hate). Sounds great on paper, makes for some great lines for the characters to say, but is simply not how things work in real life. There are plenty of people who continue to murder, and there are plenty of people who are deranged butchers to begin with. The bottom line, that killing a person changes you, is what they want to get at, but it's been embellished for the sake of drama to the point where it just sounds silly. Things coming out of left field for the sake of sounding smart do not really enhance my viewing experience.
Perhaps people take this too literally, which ruins what they were trying to say... I just interpreted this as first it might be murder, but eventually it turns into slaughter as that human being no longer has the dignity of a human being. Were we supposed to take such a thing as fact? It didn't seem like Shiki had no humanity at the end did she? The series contradicted that by itself so why were people taking the rigid definition so literally given by Toko? There was a basic idea there, and that was what we were supposed to take out of that.
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Old 2009-12-30, 18:21   Link #1511
lightbringer
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Well, Shiki herself takes it quite literally. That's why she's so afraid of crossing the "boundary" by killing someone, even though all her instincts scream at her to do it. She was raised with this doctrine, but like you say she's fine at the end, so either the doctrine is bullshit (which it probably is) or having her boyfriend there to help shoulder her sins is keeping her human.
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Old 2009-12-30, 21:30   Link #1512
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
Well, Shiki herself takes it quite literally. That's why she's so afraid of crossing the "boundary" by killing someone, even though all her instincts scream at her to do it. She was raised with this doctrine, but like you say she's fine at the end, so either the doctrine is bullshit (which it probably is) or having her boyfriend there to help shoulder her sins is keeping her human.
Throughout the entire show she saw herself as some sort of monstrosity. She felt that she would become an actual monster if she just crossed that line and let herself fall into her own desires...
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Old 2009-12-30, 23:15   Link #1513
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Throughout the entire show she saw herself as some sort of monstrosity. She felt that she would become an actual monster if she just crossed that line and let herself fall into her own desires...
That is one of the reasons her other SHIKI chose to die.

He essentially ensured her future and freed her of the family attirbute.

The male SHIKI is the one who if he was still in her mind would have made her turn into a murderous monster of a person.

male SHIKI is concerned only with murder.

His job is to just kill and enjoy it.

SHIKI saw how nice Megane-san was and saw the possible future for his "sister" shiki and decide to leave.

The two. SHIKI and Shiki love our four eye bookworm but they knew in their current state they can't be together.

So SHIKI decided to leave Shiki in 4 eyes care... well he has 3 eyes now
At least that what I think.
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Old 2010-01-06, 05:32   Link #1514
Defade
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Originally Posted by Zetsubo View Post
male SHIKI is concerned only with murder.

His job is to just kill and enjoy it.
Epilogue:

Spoiler:
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Old 2010-01-09, 01:20   Link #1515
Unknown Soldier
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I just started watching this series of movies based on a recommendation. I've never read any Type-Moon visual novels nor can I speak any Japanese, so even if I wanted to read them I couldn't. I don't know anything about Type-Moon other than I've watched the Fate/Stay Night anime. I notice that this thread is filled with spoilers, so I won't bother reading any of it until I've finished. But so far, I have no idea what is going on after watching the first 2 movies but the gore factor goes to 11 and it's been at least enjoyable, even if it makes absolutely no sense and there's a lot of endless yammering about some metaphysical topic when all I want to see is people being gruesomely killed.
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Old 2010-01-16, 04:04   Link #1516
Unknown Soldier
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Does anybody read this thread anymore?

I watched it through the 5th movie. Taking it slowly, one movie a day, except on days when I'm busy and skip a movie, so it's taken me nearly 2 weeks to get through movies 1-5. But now I feel like I should hurry up and finish watching 6 and 7 this weekend.

Somebody really, really likes Haagen-Daaz's ice cream who has to do with creating the original novel or the movies. I get the feel Haagen-Daaz wouldn't pay for product placement in a series of movies like these.
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Old 2010-01-17, 01:40   Link #1517
Unknown Soldier
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Finished the series and read the thread about it. There seems to be a lot of analysis about the deeper meaning of this series, but it seemed awfully simple in the end:

(1) You can't truly be happy until you are comfortable with what you are, the bad and the good.
(2) You can't let someone else love you until you can have the capability to love yourself. Condition (1) must be satisfied to reach condition (2).

The whole thing was, at it's core, a simple love story. The supernatural and horror elements and the magic and the killing and extreme ultraviolence were just serving as distractions, completely unecessary superfluous elements to make it seem like it was more than it was. But that's all this was, a simple love story. It borders on truly being art because of how incredibly hard it tries to be good, even when a lot of the superfluous non-love-story elements really start to bog it down.

Next time though, I'm kind of hoping there can be less mega-gore in TYPE-MOON's simple love stories, because daaaaaaaaaaaamn was there some f**cked up s**t in this series. Brains in jars, people getting their decapitated skulls and forcibly torn-out hearts crushed like grapes, cannibalism, extremely graphic mutilation, an intense rape scene, the list of grotesqueries goes on and on. I hadn't been that uncomfortable watching some scenes in this anime since I watched Higurashi for the first time. (The crucifixion of Satoko in Higurashi stands out in my mind as something nearly as uncomfortable for me to have watched, and most of that occurred offscreen, whereas this series of movies delighted in showing every gory moment front and center.)
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Old 2010-02-06, 21:14   Link #1518
chaos_alfa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier View Post
Finished the series and read the thread about it. There seems to be a lot of analysis about the deeper meaning of this series, but it seemed awfully simple in the end:

(1) You can't truly be happy until you are comfortable with what you are, the bad and the good.
(2) You can't let someone else love you until you can have the capability to love yourself. Condition (1) must be satisfied to reach condition (2).

The whole thing was, at it's core, a simple love story. The supernatural and horror elements and the magic and the killing and extreme ultraviolence were just serving as distractions, completely unecessary superfluous elements to make it seem like it was more than it was. But that's all this was, a simple love story. It borders on truly being art because of how incredibly hard it tries to be good, even when a lot of the superfluous non-love-story elements really start to bog it down.

Next time though, I'm kind of hoping there can be less mega-gore in TYPE-MOON's simple love stories, because daaaaaaaaaaaamn was there some f**cked up s**t in this series. Brains in jars, people getting their decapitated skulls and forcibly torn-out hearts crushed like grapes, cannibalism, extremely graphic mutilation, an intense rape scene, the list of grotesqueries goes on and on. I hadn't been that uncomfortable watching some scenes in this anime since I watched Higurashi for the first time. (The crucifixion of Satoko in Higurashi stands out in my mind as something nearly as uncomfortable for me to have watched, and most of that occurred offscreen, whereas this series of movies delighted in showing every gory moment front and center.)
Couldn't you but that in spoiler tags
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Old 2010-02-06, 21:35   Link #1519
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when is the limited ed blue ray box set due out?
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Old 2010-02-14, 14:49   Link #1520
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Just watched the first movie, it was pretty interesting.
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