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Old 2006-12-16, 13:52   Link #1
Beatofangel
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[Anime]Ichigo Vs Kenpachi on episode (4get d)

question tat i wan ask as title above...lets see when ichigo fight byakuya,he need use bankai to defeat him and fight kariya(filler) too....but when he fight zaraki kenpachi a.k.a the crazy melee fighther,no need use bankai oso can defeat him...so izit mean zaraki kenpachi is so weak???
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Old 2006-12-16, 14:09   Link #2
ThoHell
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LOL, what is this Kariya(filler)?

It doesn't mean Zaraki is weak or anything. He is if not the strongest one of the sptrongest captains if talking about spiritual power. You have to look at him as a brute/barbarian. Muscle over brains type of guy. His techniques aren't very advnace, mainly simple. He isn't a high speed fighter. If he were to fight using flash step all the time and have a ban kai, his power would be insane most likely making him the strongest captain below Aizen.
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Old 2006-12-16, 15:27   Link #3
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@ ThoHell: some Filler Villian...

Ichigo also got help from Zangetsu and Hichigo? That last Attack loocked quiet nasty. Ichy never used that one ever again...
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Old 2006-12-16, 15:33   Link #4
DestinyFate
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@ ThoHell: some Filler Villian...

Ichigo also got help from Zangetsu and Hichigo? That last Attack loocked quiet nasty. Ichy never used that one ever again...
I don't think that attack can even hit Byakuya or Kariya
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Old 2006-12-16, 15:54   Link #5
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Zangetsu and Hichigo are both part of Ichigo, he just had them manafested (wrong spelling??? ) into 2 different being. Hichigo = Ichigo at 100% and maybe more, Zangestsu = Ichigo's spirit power intellect???
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Old 2006-12-16, 22:00   Link #6
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Ah you're all wrong the answer is quite simple:

As a Shonen the main character can't lose! Which means that no matter how amazingly ridiculous his opponent is, there will always be some plot device that allows him to win.

Look at all of Ichigo's fights thus far(big ones): He always "loses", yet still manages to "win". He would have lost to Kenpachi, who lets face it is probably the strongest guy there is(he beat Touzen and would have probably beaten Komamura), yet he loses to Ichigo's wonder blast. He would have lost to Byakuya as well, thankfully Hichigo shows up to stop the slaughter and wound him.
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Old 2006-12-17, 03:05   Link #7
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zangetsu already answered it. kenpachi's huge raw power is also his major weakness, because it made him so overconfident that he completely forgot about his zanpakutou. yachiru said the match was 1 vs. 2. actually i think it's more like 1 complete ichigo vs. half of kenpachi.
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Old 2006-12-22, 13:03   Link #8
alk2184
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I believe Ichigo's strength was at its highest level during his battle with Zaraki, I mean Zaraki is a beast, he friggin deflected Ichinose' Shikai with his excess spirit power. You've also got to realize, Ichigo didn't have access to his Bankai during his fight with Zaraki, I also think that in terms of raw spirit power strength, Zaraki is probably top 3, probably only beaten by Yamamoto and Aizen. I also think that the difference between Ichigo and his Hollow aren't strength, but rather complete mastery over Zangetsu, you can sort of pick up on that through comments that he makes when he manifests himself.

Last edited by alk2184; 2006-12-22 at 13:14.
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Old 2006-12-22, 16:43   Link #9
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Ah you're all wrong the answer is quite simple:

As a Shonen the main character can't lose! Which means that no matter how amazingly ridiculous his opponent is, there will always be some plot device that allows him to win.

Look at all of Ichigo's fights thus far(big ones): He always "loses", yet still manages to "win". He would have lost to Kenpachi, who lets face it is probably the strongest guy there is(he beat Touzen and would have probably beaten Komamura), yet he loses to Ichigo's wonder blast. He would have lost to Byakuya as well, thankfully Hichigo shows up to stop the slaughter and wound him.
Yeah... Ichigo got a lethal heart wound during the fight , when Kenpachi stabbed through Ichigo&#180;s soulslayer (and it broke)... I mean Ichigo lost like 1.5 liters of blood and his soul slayer (manifestation of his soul) broke in 2 pieces, normally theres no way in hell to survive this for any other characters, except the main hero.

Also im wondering, Ichigo got this strange dummy-thingy from Yuruchi to be able to manifest Zangetsu in the "real world", just by stabbing it, to be able to attain bankai. Why not lend this doll to Kenpachi? He could just stab it and ask the manifestation what name it has...
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Old 2006-12-22, 17:12   Link #10
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Firstly it has nothing to do with Ichigo more to do with his zanapkuto Zangetsu . Breaking/ shattering of a zanapkuto signifies death/defeat usally. Coming to Zaraki well till Zaraki fought Ichigo he didnot bother to know the name of his zanpakuto let alone shikai or bankai as he was undefeated

Tenshintai leaving Yoru and Ura IMO no one knows about that invention
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Old 2006-12-23, 02:20   Link #11
hdx514
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Yeah... Ichigo got a lethal heart wound during the fight , when Kenpachi stabbed through Ichigo&#180;s soulslayer (and it broke)... I mean Ichigo lost like 1.5 liters of blood and his soul slayer (manifestation of his soul) broke in 2 pieces, normally theres no way in hell to survive this for any other characters, except the main hero.
no, renji survived byakuya, hitsugaya, and even momo, survived aizen. okay, so they didn't recover mid-mattle, but we're talking about totally unblocked, direct hits from the big boss, especially in momo's case. and look at how much blood renji and hitsu lost. later on in the manga you'll find insignificant characters surviving injuries 10x more serious than ichigo's. plus it's not like he's the only one capable of healing injuries during battle. growth rate's ichigo's privilege, survival, i don't think so. everyone survives in bleach.

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Firstly it has nothing to do with Ichigo more to do with his zanapkuto Zangetsu
this is like saying: kenpachi's battle prowess and stamina has nothing to do with kenpachi more to do with his huge reiatsu. it's not like ichigo stole zangetsu from someone.
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Old 2006-12-23, 07:57   Link #12
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zangetsu already answered it. kenpachi's huge raw power is also his major weakness, because it made him so overconfident that he completely forgot about his zanpakutou. yachiru said the match was 1 vs. 2. actually i think it's more like 1 complete ichigo vs. half of kenpachi.
Zangetsu doesnt know shit.

first this is a shonen about shikai, bankai, swords

Kenpachi with any melee weapon > ichigo with any melee weapon excludin his sword
thats the difference in power, where you can use any weapon and still be dominant, you still have weaknesses, but you dont always rely on the same weapon to kill. Thats the flaw in teh series and in the real world that also applies.
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Old 2006-12-23, 08:31   Link #13
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Kenpachi isn't out there to kill Ichigo, he's just trying to have some fun. It's obvious that he lose because he's extremely arrogant. Nomatter how strong you are you will start losing after giving out enough handicaps. No sword release, energy draining eyepatch, bells on your hair, standing around to take the hits, and most of all, he's not even trying to win but simply look for some fun while thinking he can't lose. Wasn't really like Ichigo win anyway more like a draw where both of them pass out afterward.
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Old 2006-12-23, 10:12   Link #14
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^probably at the end he was trying to win. Or rather, he was trying to win all the time but half assedly fighting, at the end he gave it his all, can be seen when he removed his eyepatch.
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Old 2006-12-23, 17:39   Link #15
hdx514
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Zangetsu doesnt know shit.
you might as well say kubo doesn't know shit. why do you think kenpachi was so desperate to communicate with his zanpakutou post battle?

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Kenpachi with any melee weapon > ichigo with any melee weapon excludin his sword. thats the difference in power, where you can use any weapon and still be dominant, you still have weaknesses,
"shinigamis using other weapons?!" i can't believe you even said that. one's zanpakutou IS NOT "any weapon", it is an integral part of oneself, the real life equivalence would be an arm/leg. kenpachi didn't use "any melee" weapon, nor did ichigo. it's their own strength they relied upon. shinigamis zanpakutous are unique to their users, so zangetsu's awesomeness has everything to do with ichigo's power. what you're saying is as ridiculous as "kenpachi with anyone's reiatsu > ichigo with that reiatsu excluding ichigo's own reiatsu."

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but you dont always rely on the same weapon to kill.
go ahead, name one shinigami that relies on other weapons/reiatsu besides his/her own zanapkutou/reiatsu

Quote:
first this is a shonen about shikai, bankai, swords
and what does past experience tell you about characters that has already admitted defeat to the hero in shounen?

Quote:
Kenpachi isn't out there to kill Ichigo, he's just trying to have some fun. It's obvious that he lose because he's extremely arrogant. Nomatter how strong you are you will start losing after giving out enough handicaps.
if you're talking about extreme handicaps, you're talking about ichigo. he's just done fighting with kenpachi's 3rd seat and a VC, and he's had 1/100th training/experience compared to all of them. whatever ichigo's level was in that fight, it was close to kenpachi's, because if ichigo's much weaker than kenpachi and he only lost due to pure arrogance/handicaps, then kenpachi would be saying things like "looks like i should loose the eye-patch", instead of crying "i want to be stronger" and desperately trying to communicate with his zanpakutou.
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Old 2006-12-23, 17:54   Link #16
Ohnuki
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Erm killing IS whats fun for Zaraki...That's why hes happy he lost, it just means that it'll be much more fun when he does end up killing Ichigo(never).
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Old 2006-12-23, 19:56   Link #17
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zaraki kenpachi is so weak???
We cant say that zaraki is weak. He was defeated by ichigo because ichigo was fighting together with his zanpactou at his full power at the fight and zaraki was fighting him with his own power not using is kanpactou!!

well we should ask some questions to ourselves about Zaraki...

If Zaraki had knew his zanpactou name who would have won the fight between ichigo and him?

Imagine how much power would he get if he gets to know his zanpactou name and obtain his bankai?
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Old 2006-12-23, 21:32   Link #18
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One of the reasons I dont like Bleach very much right now is because of the discrapancy in Ichigo's power. I thought he was supposed to be the second strongest in Soul Society after the end of the Soul Society arc but in the manga he gets his butt kicked so many times its not even funny. And what I dont get is that Kempachi has to be way stronger than Byakuuga right ?? I mean he has so much spirit energy that he cant even mold it into a Zampaktu (cant spell I know) and apparantly Byakuuga can so wouldnt that make Zaraki infintely stronger than Byakuuga or is Zaraki just bluffing when he says that
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Old 2006-12-24, 01:00   Link #19
hdx514
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where did you get that ichigo's second strongest in S.S.? he's supposed to be captain class, and the one with greatest potential/growth rate, that's about it. ichigo was getting his arse handled because
Spoiler:
that's the whole point of a new arc, you progress further. i fail to see the discrepancy.

Quote:
Imagine how much power would he get if he gets to know his zanpactou name and obtain his bankai?
doesn't matter. because if kenpachi who didn't even get the name of his zanpakutou can somehow manage to master bankai then i imagine
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-12-24, 01:36   Link #20
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ahh i c thanks for clearing that up but still I was always under the impression that Byakuga was the strongest captain of the 13 squads and when Ichigo beat him he preoved to be the second strongest after Aizen (and Gin probably) idk I think I might have just read that somewhere or something like that. But lets just hope Ichigo never gets his butt kicked ever again
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