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Old 2006-12-21, 01:38   Link #1
Knyte
The Original Knyte
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 29
Lightbulb Bleach 01 Opening Kanji

not sure if this has been covered, so forgive me

my question concerns the kanji seen during the opening moments of Bleach 01:

"We have no form, therefore we fear it. And because we are formless, we revere it. Thus we are slain."

has the manga, or anyone, elaborated on this? like who is the "We" and "it" refering to? or is it just meant to be interpreted by the veiwer as they see it.

at first i thought it refered to hollows and living souls, but then why would hollows eat something they fear and revere....of course that could also be refering to some ancient practices where warriors would eat their opponents to gain their power. so slaying the hollows seems natural when wanting to preserve innocent souls and keep them relatively weak.

but so far, hollows have had forms though only a few people can see them, while to others they seem formless since they cant see spirits.

as for souls, they can see hollows as well so to them hollows have a form plus some can slay hollows...which i guess is cause to fear and revere such power to the point of attempting to eat it to absorb the power.

even through all this, it doesnt completely clear up the vagueness of the entire quote: who are the "we" with no forms? what do these formless beings fear and revere? no, living souls are not the answer but merely speculations. the "it" could be anything; souls, hearts, life, death, heaven, hell, soul society, the list could go on and on; samething applies to the "we".

im catching up on Bleach eps, only on 64 at the moment; just finished the invasion of soul society, and rescue of rukia arc.

comment on what i have said, or post your own speculations. discuss away!
__________________
We have no form, therefore we fear it.
And because we are formless, we revere it.
Thus we are slain.

We are without form, thus we are awestruck.
Thus, we are slain a second time.
Under the name of a mask.
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Old 2006-12-22, 15:10   Link #2
Zoe
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Austin
Age: 32
It doesn't seem like the manga can give too much clarification. The speaker is clearly Ichigo (like all volume poems, the speaker is the one pictured), but the text you gave doesn't match what's in the book 100% (I don't have the anime to compare). It only includes the first sentence.

俺等は
姿無きが故に
それを畏れ
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Old 2006-12-22, 23:46   Link #3
kagato3
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Given the subject matter of Bleach it might mean:

We (shinigami/souls?) have no form, therefore we (humans) fear it (death) . And because we (shinigami/souls?) are formless, we revere it (death). Thus we (humans?) are slain.
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Old 2006-12-23, 22:10   Link #4
Zoe
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
Given the subject matter of Bleach it might mean:

We (shinigami/souls?) have no form, therefore we (humans) fear it (death) .
The problem with this is there is really only one "we" in the statement. The second one is just implied, so it's a stretch to think that the two "we" are different. A more direct translation would be, "We have no form, therefore that is feared."

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
I just remembered, that someone told be, that Haikus have a lot of possible interpretations, especially when trying to translate them and there even exists some, which have whole books full of interpretations.
So good luck.
Actually, this isn't a haiku, just a normal poem :P
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Old 2006-12-24, 01:55   Link #5
Knyte
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoe View Post
It doesn't seem like the manga can give too much clarification. The speaker is clearly Ichigo (like all volume poems, the speaker is the one pictured), but the text you gave doesn't match what's in the book 100% (I don't have the anime to compare). It only includes the first sentence.

俺等は
姿無きが故に
それを畏れ
in the manga it may be ichigo, but in the anime no one speaks this qoute. the kanji apear on the screen in 3 segments. going on memory here, i have an external hard drive i keep the eps on. will edit tomorrow if any editting is needed.

Segment 1: "We have no form, therefore we fear it"

here we see the world of the hollows, a barren place, the kanji appear. two dark spikes ascend from the ground to a black cloud, aka the boundary of the Hollow World and the Real World.

Segment 2: "And because we are formless, we revere it"

the camera pans down from the black cloud to reveal the real world's night sky, where two hollows fall onto a sidewalk beneath a street lamp, the kanji appear. we see their eyes, and a wide smile before the air shimmers and they disappear. the camera cuts to rukia standing on a telephone pole who, after sensing the hollows, bounds off into the night.

Segment 3: "Thus, we are slain"

the kanji appear as rukia gets smaller and the camera pans up into the night sky before fading to black.
__________________
We have no form, therefore we fear it.
And because we are formless, we revere it.
Thus we are slain.

We are without form, thus we are awestruck.
Thus, we are slain a second time.
Under the name of a mask.

Last edited by Knyte; 2006-12-25 at 23:11. Reason: details
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Old 2007-01-07, 09:27   Link #6
Knyte
The Original Knyte
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 29
original post redundant. how do you delete a post/reply
__________________
We have no form, therefore we fear it.
And because we are formless, we revere it.
Thus we are slain.

We are without form, thus we are awestruck.
Thus, we are slain a second time.
Under the name of a mask.

Last edited by Knyte; 2007-01-07 at 10:01.
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Old 2007-01-07, 09:56   Link #7
Knyte
The Original Knyte
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 29
ok, just got some ideas for these kanji after watching eps 109. here is goes (possible spoilers for those who havent seen ep 109 and want to)

"We have no form, therefore we fear it.
And because we are formless, we revere it.
Thus we are slain."

in martial arts, and nearly everything, form can be synonymous with power. Take Kendo or Iaijutsu or any martial art/ fighting techniques, if you do not have proper form your attacks will have no power.

and the "we" isnt just stand alone, you could take "we have no form" to be "the powerless". so what do the powerless fear, revere, and are slain by?

well with the dialogue from ep 109, one could say that the "it" is refering to "the wheel of fate" as Ichigo is quoted as "wanting to seek power to turn fate" before the event when he became a shinigami through Rukia, as well as Kiraya seeking power to break away from the Bount's history, which can be argued as fate; it was the fate of the Bounts to be destroyed by Soul Society.

so you could rewrite this as:

"The powerless fear the wheel of fate.
And because they are powerless, they revere the wheel of fate.
Thus, they are crushed as the wheel turns."

now this second set of kanji from the end of ep109 (assuming that the above is true [yes yes i know what happens when you assume])

"We are without form, thus we are awestruck.
Thus, we are slain a second time.
Under the name of a mask."

can be rewritten as

"The powerless are awestruck.
Thus, they are crushed as the wheel turns a second time.
Under the name of a mask"

now two more questions pop up, what are the powerless awestruck by, the wheel of fate or something else entirely? and what is the name of this mask? could it possibly be the Hollow Ichigo?

/ponders
__________________
We have no form, therefore we fear it.
And because we are formless, we revere it.
Thus we are slain.

We are without form, thus we are awestruck.
Thus, we are slain a second time.
Under the name of a mask.
Knyte is offline   Reply With Quote
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