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Old 2009-04-16, 14:28   Link #301
TheFluff
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1) you can only have one \move tag per line, if you have more only one (the first or the last, I can't remember which one vsfilter picks) will get used
2) your \move tags do not have any explicit start or end times set, which means the movement will be over the course of the entire line, not over the course of the syllable's duration
3) \move($SX,$SY,!$S X-($layer*1.5)!,!$SY+$layer!)) <-- one closing parenthesis too much here

if you want to move a syllable in more than one direction per line you need to either resort to dirty tricks (like the faraway \org + very small \fr[xyz] one) or work around the limitation by using the retime function and a number of additional templates to create more than one copy of each syllable.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2009-04-16, 14:44   Link #302
Hestia
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Join Date: Apr 2009
I'm not all that much of an Aegisub expert myself, but here's a few things I've gathered from my own experience so far:

a) You can only use certain tags in conjuction with the \t one in multiple syllables. \move is not one of them unfortunately, since, as you have already discovered, it moves the entire line and not each syllable separately.

b) If I remember correctly from my first karaoke excursions, \fscx and \fscy will similarly make your entire line move upwards or downwards or whatever, even though there's only one syllable getting bigger or smaller. That's because the entire line size redefines its placing parameters even if you only fool around with one syllable at a time.

Soooo, what can you do to solve the problem? There are basically two ways to work around these restrictions:

1. Create two identical copies of every line, one visible (basic) and one invisible (for the effects). For your karaoke, make each syllable of the visible line invisible and the same one from the invisible line visible. That way, you don't really mind if your line is moving up and down, since only the one syllable can be seen each time. Remember to bring everything back to normal at the end of your karaoke fx in order to return your invisible line back to its initial position.

2. Haven't had the chance to try this out yet, but in theory you could keep your \fscy tags at least from making your entire line jump by adding an invisible character at the end of each line that will constantly have the max fscy. For example, paste a {\r\fscy150\alpha&HFF&}; at the end of each line, after the karaoke effects have been added.

Now, it's been a while since the last time I fooled around with this particular kind of effects, so please take these with a bit of salt. And I hope the explanations and descriptions weren't too confusing, lol. Also, I'd suggest you gave up on your /move tags entirely. Like TheFluff said, banish your \org to outer space and then use teeny-tiny-little frx-y-z. It works like a charm.
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Old 2009-04-16, 14:53   Link #303
BOFH_of_OZ
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Thanks for your replies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hestia View Post
a) You can only use certain tags in conjuction with the \t one in multiple syllables. \move is not one of them unfortunately, since, as you have already discovered, it moves the entire line and not each syllable separately.
Well, that's the thing - it moves the entire line and each syllable. And if I understood the line-per-syllable part properly, it should work with syllables. Which it does, almost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
2) your \move tags do not have any explicit start or end times set, which means the movement will be over the course of the entire line, not over the course of the syllable's duration
3) \move($SX,$SY,!$S X-($layer*1.5)!,!$SY+$layer!)) <-- one closing parenthesis too much here
Here, move is part of \t, so the second parenthesis is supposed to relate to \t.


Again, my problem is not that Aegisub doesn't do what I want. The syllables move just fine, and the font scaling works perfectly. The problem is that it also does something I don't want it to, which is moving the line in addition to moving the syllables.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
if you want to move a syllable in more than one direction per line you need to either resort to dirty tricks (like the faraway \org + very small \fr[xyz] one) or work around the limitation by using the retime function and a number of additional templates to create more than one copy of each syllable.
...and that's where you lost me.
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Old 2009-04-16, 15:13   Link #304
Hestia
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Let me put it this way. \move does not obey \t. And you can only use it once per line. Basically, it's useless for karaoke and usually only gets applied for typesetting purposes.

Use an extravagant org and then a tiny frx or fry or frz, like {\r\org(3000,3000)\t(t1,t2,\frx0.1)} (fool around with the numbers till you get it right). The effect looks like a simple displacement instead of a rotation, because (according to our beloved mathematics) when a circle's diameter approaches infinity, the circle's circumference tends to become a stright line. Hence, instead of rotating them, it almost likes like they're being displaced in a straight line. Makes sense?

The additional templates are kinda more complicated to explain, but think of it as a quick way to make as many copies of a line as the number of syllables you have. Hence, one /move per line-syllable.

Last edited by Hestia; 2009-04-16 at 16:56.
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Old 2009-04-16, 15:34   Link #305
TheFluff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOFH_of_OZ View Post
Here, move is part of \t, so the second parenthesis is supposed to relate to \t.
like Hestia said, you cannot animate \move with \t since it's already animated (I dunno why it's having any effect at all, vsfilter parsing quirks probably)
what you can do is set a start and end time for the movement, see http://aegisub.cellosoft.com/docs/ASS_Tags
for the retime function see http://aegisub.cellosoft.com/docs/Ka...ronment#retime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hestia View Post
b) If I remember correctly from my first karaoke excursions, \fscx and \fscy will similarly make your entire line move upwards or downwards or whatever, even though there's only one syllable getting bigger or smaller. That's because the entire line size redefines its placing parameters even if you only fool around with one syllable at a time.
that depends on the alignment, with \an7 doing an animated \fscy will make the line or syllable "bounce" against the top edge of the video (similar things happen with other alignments and other edges). use \an5 to avoid this.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2009-04-16, 17:09   Link #306
BOFH_of_OZ
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I played around with it some more and yes, you are correct about \move (well, duh! who's more experienced? ^_^

I'll try \org as you suggested and hope it will work as expected...

P.S. \fscx and \fscy will make entire line bounce if used with "template line". Using "template syl" makes them overlap but resizing one syllable doesn't affect placement of others.
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Old 2009-04-16, 17:47   Link #307
TheFluff
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as a beginner there is no real reason to ever use template line; it does have some quirky niche uses but for basic stuff all it does is complicate things needlessly
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2009-04-16, 18:13   Link #308
BOFH_of_OZ
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But since all I'm subbing are PVs, karaoke effects are a must, and if they are a must, they better be good, right? So, no simple things for me ^_^
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Old 2009-04-16, 23:48   Link #309
getfresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOFH_of_OZ View Post
But since all I'm subbing are PVs, karaoke effects are a must, and if they are a must, they better be good, right? So, no simple things for me ^_^
Effects are never a must. To be able to make great kara effects or not, you need to be able to make damn good looking stuff without even having effects to begin with. Just \k \K with fades if done right can look really good.
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Old 2009-04-17, 04:12   Link #310
BOFH_of_OZ
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I guess that moves the discussion to subtitle styles... I'll continue in the related thread. ^_^
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Old 2009-04-20, 11:14   Link #311
princessmarisa
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Audio Problems

I am very new to fansubbing
I decided to try a little project of an OP to learn as I go , so be patient please

I encode my videos with GordianKnot, after I used DGIndex to make a d2v file that seperated the OP. (I followed a doom9 guide and things i read on the internet, but have no clue what I am doing here so if anyone has a good tutorial for anime encoding using gordianknot,(or a better/but not too complex prog/autoGK is too simple I think) whether to use divx/xvid/x264 and what settings i'd appreciate it too..however for now as i don't plan to distro just want to practise it seems less crucial)

Anyway

I have ended up with a WAV file, a mp3 and a ac3 for audio

I started timing the karaoke in SubStationAlpha and the wav file played perfectly and I put all the lines in place, then properly timed the first couple

I then decided to see how it would look in Aegisub(v2.16) to use that instead

When I load any of the videos (I first did a x264 in avi with the ac3, then later learnt it was wrong, and made a x264 in a mkv with 128VBR mp3)
Everything is very out of sync and the audio sounds really low quality, scratches and crackles etc and jumps,at the start.

I can playback the files perfectly in mpclassic.

I tried to just load the audio files, I tried the WAV, mp3, and ac2 and all sound just as terrible. I also tried a couple of random music mp3s from my collection, and they jump and "crackle" too.

I wonder if perhaps it is to do with the playback codecs I have installed, but wouldn't know how to go about fixing this, I used CCCP insurgant a while ago but it stopped me bieng able to play back half of my videos, so I just reinstalled another codec pack (all sorts of mess going on there )

I just figured if the WAV files play perfect in SSA, and MPclassic, Vlan, Winamp, as do the videos I made how come it is so broken in Aegisub


Thanks for any replies


wow this was pretty tl;dr


To summerize

  • Any audio/video file I open in aegisub the audio playback is horrible sounding!
  • The files work fine in multiple other programs
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Old 2009-04-20, 11:29   Link #312
jfs
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 29
Does the audio file happen to be 8 bit sample depth? We've had problems with that before, though that should have been fixed.
You say it happens with "any" file, does that also include any other random sound file you have on your computer?

You can perhaps try this newer version of Aegisub (it's built from the latest source code) which has a rewritten DirectSound based audio player, and also support OpenAL output if you have that installed.
http://www.animereactor.dk/aegisub/a...n-2830-jfs.rar
You should unpack the files to the directory you installed 2.1.6 to. Note the EXE file is now called Aegisub32 instead of Aegisub.

If this doesn't help, can you send me the files you're having problems with somehow? (PM on the forum or catch me on IRC.)


(Regarding "aegisub32" in case anyone's wondering, yes we can build a 64 bit native version, but it doesn't have a subtitle renderer or video provider so it isn't really worth it.)
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Old 2009-04-20, 11:31   Link #313
BOFH_of_OZ
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For video part - as per Aegisub FAQ (http://www.malakith.net/aegiwiki/FAQ):
Quote:
Aegisub's video window doesn't seem to play video correctly!

Mantra: Aegisub is not a video player. Do not expect it to play video correctly.

The video display in Aegisub is intended purely for typesetting, ie. making sure on-screen text appears and disappears at the correct frames and match up to the original picture. It is NOT intended as a "playable preview" and has never been! If you want a playable preview, you should save your file and open the video in an external player.

As for audio... did you try to load just the audio file (let's say, mp3) and work on that? It is possible that your computer can't handle the amount of processing...
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Old 2009-04-20, 11:59   Link #314
princessmarisa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfs View Post
Does the audio file happen to be 8 bit sample depth? We've had problems with that before, though that should have been fixed.
You say it happens with "any" file, does that also include any other random sound file you have on your computer?

You can perhaps try this newer version of Aegisub
The wav is indeed 8bit sample, but yes it includes several random sound files I have on my computer, I will try the new version thanks.
Also I can PM to send you one of the versions, but seeing as it is all audio file, I have a feeling it isn't just a problem with one file.


Quote:
As for audio... did you try to load just the audio file (let's say, mp3) and work on that? It is possible that your computer can't handle the amount of processing...
I closed aegisub completely, and exited every other program, then loaded it with just one 2minute ish random mp3, and had the same problems.

My PC specs are Core2Duo 2x 2.13 CPU, 3GB DDR2-6400 RAM so it is a little old, but I would expect it to be able to handle the processing needed for this.



Anyway lets try download that new version

*edit*
Update new version throws errors "OpenAL32.dll" was not found. (nevermind solved by installed OpenAL {duh})

Now getting "DirectSoundPlayer2Thread: could not lock buffer for filling" when I try play an audio file

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Old 2009-04-20, 12:55   Link #315
jfs
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 29
It sounds like you have a bad sound card or bad driver, somehow... what sound card are you using? (And check if there might be an updated driver.)

Also try switching to the OpenAL audio player in Aegisub, go to Options, Audio/Advanced.
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Old 2009-04-20, 14:58   Link #316
princessmarisa
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Thank you for all your help

I think I have fixed it now

a few days ago I was having compatibility issues with some old windows games, so I turned off hardware sound acceleration in DXDIAG..I thought I had turned it back on again but must have forgot!

Both versions of Aegissub seem to work find for the audio now, and I won't expect too much from the video syncing as per FAQ
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Old 2009-04-21, 08:52   Link #317
getfresh
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Also you wanna check your codecs. Many new ppl don't have things like Ac3, lame, and ogg codecs installed. Though they may have nothing to do with your issue they are helpful to have in the end. CCCP is mostly for playback in the end. If you are going to fansub you are going to want to have the seperate codecs themselves.
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Old 2009-04-21, 14:51   Link #318
TheFluff
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nice try getfresh but from 2.1.2 and onwards aegisub uses ffmpegsource2 by default (which means it uses "internal" decoders and doesn't give a flying fuck about dshow)

also, for aegisub purposes, cccp is all you'll ever need
in fact cccp + xvid are pretty much all the codecs I have installed and I do a good bit more than just playing around in aegisub
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2009-05-02, 18:18   Link #319
Zwill
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I've been noticing a strange "bug" or ionno, but I guess it's like a bug.

DL link

Notice the shadow opacity change. Well it wouldn't be such a big thing, if it was meant to be like that, but actually it isn't. The change is in the same line and it looks like that the title sign is affecting the shadow, but I guess if you know what causes this, you wont need a detailed explanation.
I've tried to make a snapshot with MPC but the title wasn't on the pic and the shadow was also "ok", so I had to hardsub it. Anyways I'm kinda curious what causes this thingy...
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Old 2009-05-02, 20:30   Link #320
jfs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwill View Post
Notice the shadow opacity change.
Known bug in VSFilter. I don't know why it happens and can't think of any remotely good reason anything like it could happen.
I'm not going to look into it or attempt fixing it, I'm not touching VSFilter code again.

(Oh, and this means: It is not a bug in Aegisub, Aegisub does not render subtitles.)
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