AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Haruhi Suzumiya

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-02-26, 21:55   Link #301
Shin_Battousai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I hope you're right xris ^^
Shin_Battousai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 22:28   Link #302
FatPianoBoy
Dansa med oss
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Pre-order win goes to rightstuf for now.... (ka-ching!)
Indeed. I'd rather pay five dollars more than somewhere else than risk not getting it at all.
__________________
FatPianoBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 22:35   Link #303
Shin_Battousai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I assume you can cancel your order with Right Stuf though right?Haven't used them before since this is my first R1 import.
Shin_Battousai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 23:29   Link #304
Asrialys
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin_Battousai View Post
I assume you can cancel your order with Right Stuf though right?Haven't used them before since this is my first R1 import.
Yes, you can cancel orders. And pre-orders don't get charged until release date. I've never experienced problems with them, so I think you won't either.

FYI, there seems to be more for international customers to do when ordering for the first time. Read their FAQ on Shipping & Handling for international customers.
Asrialys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 23:32   Link #305
Shin_Battousai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Thanks for that. Just noticed that first time thing, quite annoying. I think i'll wait and see what DVD Pacific or what Madman does for us Australians ^^
Shin_Battousai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 23:51   Link #306
Joojoobees
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Well, I'm disappointed with what they are doing with the episode ordering. Whoever was responsible for the decision (I understand it wasn't the company offering the domestic release, but that doesn't matter), is really shooting the franchise in the foot. I'm one of the people who think that the broadcast order was inspired. People who are introduced to the show by the "regular" release are going to lose some of the intensity that the "broadcast" ordering conveyed. Once you have seen it, it doesn't matter, so I won't be paying an extra hundred bucks for "correct" sequencing of episodes, but most newcomers won't either, and they won't ever get that part of the experience.

I really think they are trying to squeeze extra money out of the established fan base at the expense of losing new potential fans for the show.
Joojoobees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 00:06   Link #307
Kaioshin Sama
Banned
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Neither Here nor There
Age: 29
Send a message via MSN to Kaioshin Sama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joojoobees View Post
Well, I'm disappointed with what they are doing with the episode ordering. Whoever was responsible for the decision (I understand it wasn't the company offering the domestic release, but that doesn't matter), is really shooting the franchise in the foot. I'm one of the people who think that the broadcast order was inspired. People who are introduced to the show by the "regular" release are going to lose some of the intensity that the "broadcast" ordering conveyed. Once you have seen it, it doesn't matter, so I won't be paying an extra hundred bucks for "correct" sequencing of episodes, but most newcomers won't either, and they won't ever get that part of the experience.

I really think they are trying to squeeze extra money out of the established fan base at the expense of losing new potential fans for the show.
You can watch them in whatever order you want. Plus the original novels were intended to be in chronological order with short story volumes released afterward to plug in some holes, not completely all over the place like Kyoto Animation made it. Trust me as a novel reader, the story works so much better when viewed in proper sequence. You get logical character development, better pacing and a much better idea of how the SOS Dan's situation is progressing. The broadcast order was no more inspired than the backwards episode of Seinfeld, or the episode of Nadesico that constantly jumps back and forth across the timeline. And what is this about an extra 100 dollars for chronological ordering?
Kaioshin Sama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 00:13   Link #308
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
Plus the original novels were intended to be in chronological order with short story volumes released afterward to plug in some holes, not completely all over the place like Kyoto Animation made it. Trust me as a novel reader, the story works so much better when viewed in proper sequence. You get logical character development, better pacing and a much better idea of how the SOS Dan's situation is progressing.
This is about where someone would rightfully point out that the novel order is not the way they were originally serialized in the magazines either, thus the varying order being part of the franchise... and the fact that both the TV and DVD orders were decided by the author himself... and so on. Really, debates about the order have been done so many times now that someone should just publish a quickguide or factsheet we can all link to and get it over with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
And what is this about an extra 100 dollars for chronological ordering?
Read up.
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 00:15   Link #309
FatPianoBoy
Dansa med oss
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joojoobees View Post
Well, I'm disappointed with what they are doing with the episode ordering. Whoever was responsible for the decision (I understand it wasn't the company offering the domestic release, but that doesn't matter), is really shooting the franchise in the foot. I'm one of the people who think that the broadcast order was inspired. People who are introduced to the show by the "regular" release are going to lose some of the intensity that the "broadcast" ordering conveyed. Once you have seen it, it doesn't matter, so I won't be paying an extra hundred bucks for "correct" sequencing of episodes, but most newcomers won't either, and they won't ever get that part of the experience.

I really think they are trying to squeeze extra money out of the established fan base at the expense of losing new potential fans for the show.
Y'know, it's people like you who make these companies feel foolish for even trying at all. These guys bent over backwards to give us the broadcast order when they could have just said "Contract says no. Too bad, so sad," and sent it on its way. I don't think the fans have ever been taken into consideration as much as they have been here (save one project I'm not allowed to talk about). Show some appreciation, huh?
__________________
FatPianoBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 00:26   Link #310
Kaioshin Sama
Banned
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Neither Here nor There
Age: 29
Send a message via MSN to Kaioshin Sama
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
That's because of all the swag you get with it though. It has nothing to do with the way DVD is layed out.

I'm willing to bet the guy wrote it chronologically but then sent the chapters into the magazine out of order to tease the fans about what might have brought them to that point (Sort of like the Dukes of Hazzard). Then he compiled them into properly ordered segments in his Tankubon. Then when it came time to do the TV series he did the same thing only for a different medium. I honestly am curious as to the order the chapters were published in The Sneaker. Were they like Volume 1 chapter 3, Volume 2 Chapter 3, Volume 1 Chapter 1... etc. I know that there are 3 Tankubon that are full series practically and then you have other that are short stories interspersed all over the place inbetween these 3 Main arcs. Kind of like This Hey it's actually on there. Hmm if you look at it all the chapters are within 4 releases of the proper chronlogical order (What I mean there I can't explain that easily) This guy is really spastic though, its clear he just chose a random order each time the series got a new medium. This is almost as ridiculous as my Gundam Seed Astray and Astray R graphic novels.
Kaioshin Sama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 01:10   Link #311
Joojoobees
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Arrow People like me

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
Y'know, it's people like you who make these companies feel foolish for even trying at all. These guys bent over backwards to give us the broadcast order when they could have just said "Contract says no. Too bad, so sad," and sent it on its way. I don't think the fans have ever been taken into consideration as much as they have been here (save one project I'm not allowed to talk about). Show some appreciation, huh?
That is crap. Don't accuse me of something I didn't say. I never said the local company was to blame. I clearly said:

Quote:
Whoever was responsible for the decision (I understand it wasn't the company offering the domestic release, but that doesn't matter), is really shooting the franchise in the foot.
If it was the original author of the light novels that makes no difference to me. (Note use of WHOEVER above).

I understand that there were reasons that the company releasing the discs stateside couldn't do it, but the cause was a human being's stupid decision. The fact that that decision wasn't made by someone in the corporation releasing the discs in America doesn't change the fact as I see it. It is my belief that the series makes a better impression in the "broadcast" order. You can disagree with that if you like, but assuming that is true, the person who decided that the series must be presented in an inferior format is making the Suzumiya franchise suffer, for the reasons I stated above.

You can argue that the series is better with the "regular" episode sequencing, but that is completely different matter.

Again, I understand that Bandai or whoever tried their best and were denied by "contractual obligations". Kudos to Bandai! But I still say the person who made the decision that caused this whole nonsense was not acting in the best interests of the franchise. If it was the original author, that means shooting himself in the foot in order to satisfy his own ego.
Joojoobees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 01:16   Link #312
Mirrinus
Bemused Scholar
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
That's because of all the swag you get with it though. It has nothing to do with the way DVD is layed out.

I'm willing to bet the guy wrote it chronologically but then sent the chapters into the magazine out of order to tease the fans about what might have brought them to that point (Sort of like the Dukes of Hazzard). Then he compiled them into properly ordered segments in his Tankubon. Then when it came time to do the TV series he did the same thing only for a different medium. I honestly am curious as to the order the chapters were published in The Sneaker. Were they like Volume 1 chapter 3, Volume 2 Chapter 3, Volume 1 Chapter 1... etc. I know that there are 3 Tankubon that are full series practically and then you have other that are short stories interspersed all over the place inbetween these 3 Main arcs. Kind of like This Hey it's actually on there. Hmm if you look at it all the chapters are within 4 releases of the proper chronlogical order (What I mean there I can't explain that easily) This guy is really spastic though, its clear he just chose a random order each time the series got a new medium. This is almost as ridiculous as my Gundam Seed Astray and Astray R graphic novels.
Actually, IIRC the chapters were published in chronological order in the Sneaker for the most part. I'm pretty sure "Boredom" was first published in the magazine before "Sighs" was. The anime is probably the only medium for which the episodes were completely mixed up. The novel series does actually follow a fairly logical order, though, if you properly differentiate between the volume-long stories and the short stories. All the long stories are published in chronological order, and all the short stories are similarly in chronological order.

I personally like the anachronological order better, as the series has a stronger buildup and conclusion as a result. However, this wouldn't apply to the novel series, as it's released in chunks and is still ongoing, so we can't exactly pick out a good climax point or anything. That said, getting the DVDs in chronological order isn't the end of the world either, though. It's much more new-viewer friendly at least, and some people do like Someday in the Rain as a conclusion. At least we're still starting with The Adventures of Asahina Mikuru Episode 00.
Mirrinus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 01:23   Link #313
bayoab
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirrinus View Post
Actually, IIRC the chapters were published in chronological order in the Sneaker for the most part. I'm pretty sure "Boredom" was first published in the magazine before "Sighs" was. The anime is probably the only medium for which the episodes were completely mixed up.
According to the timetable I have, the "original publish in sneaker" date are very jumbled beside Melancholy and the most recent stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joojoobees View Post
I understand that there were reasons that the company releasing the discs stateside couldn't do it, but the cause was a human being's stupid decision. The fact that that decision wasn't made by someone in the corporation releasing the discs in America doesn't change the fact as I see it. It is my belief that the series makes a better impression in the "broadcast" order.

Again, I understand that Bandai or whoever tried their best and were denied by "contractual obligations". Kudos to Bandai! But I still say the person who made the decision that caused this whole nonsense was not acting in the best interests of the franchise. If it was the original author, that means shooting himself in the foot in order to satisfy his own ego.
It comes down to one simple thing: Why should we get a special order when Japan didn't? Kadokawa's (JP) logic is there is no reason the R1 should get something special like that. Bandai was somehow able to convince them to allow it as an extra.
bayoab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 01:24   Link #314
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
That's because of all the swag you get with it though. It has nothing to do with the way DVD is layed out.
Yes and no. The extra disc with the broadcast order is only available in the Special Edition, which is why some are saying that it's like spending $90 extra (MSRP) to get the broadcast order. That's all.
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 02:05   Link #315
Kaioshin Sama
Banned
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Neither Here nor There
Age: 29
Send a message via MSN to Kaioshin Sama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joojoobees View Post
That is crap. Don't accuse me of something I didn't say. I never said the local company was to blame. I clearly said:



If it was the original author of the light novels that makes no difference to me. (Note use of WHOEVER above).

I understand that there were reasons that the company releasing the discs stateside couldn't do it, but the cause was a human being's stupid decision. The fact that that decision wasn't made by someone in the corporation releasing the discs in America doesn't change the fact as I see it. It is my belief that the series makes a better impression in the "broadcast" order. You can disagree with that if you like, but assuming that is true, the person who decided that the series must be presented in an inferior format is making the Suzumiya franchise suffer, for the reasons I stated above.

You can argue that the series is better with the "regular" episode sequencing, but that is completely different matter.

Again, I understand that Bandai or whoever tried their best and were denied by "contractual obligations". Kudos to Bandai! But I still say the person who made the decision that caused this whole nonsense was not acting in the best interests of the franchise. If it was the original author, that means shooting himself in the foot in order to satisfy his own ego.
Ok here's what you do. You put the DVD in and select the episode you want to see next. Done. If it were a VHS, then it might be a hassle, but its not. I really am at a loss to see why it matters at all other than the disc has a different layout in the menu. YOU are in control, you can even create your own order if you want since it was random to begin with, it would be no different. This is basically a non-issue in every conceivable way. Just to check, you do know how a DVD player works right?
Kaioshin Sama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 02:31   Link #316
Joojoobees
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Arrow If I *was* in control, the episodes would be in the correct order

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
Ok here's what you do. You put the DVD in and select the episode you want to see next. Done. If it were a VHS, then it might be a hassle, but its not. I really am at a loss to see why it matters at all other than the disc has a different layout in the menu. YOU are in control, you can even create your own order if you want since it was random to begin with, it would be no different. This is basically a non-issue in every conceivable way. Just to check, you do know how a DVD player works right?
What the? Yes, I know how a DVD player works. Why are you so desperate to jump down my throat?

I didn't say that I was going to be inconvenienced by not having access to the "broadcast" order. In fact, if you look at my original post, you'll see that I said this wasn't a problem for me at all.

If you don't want to respond to the issue I raised (that people new to the franchise would not see the series in the most powerful way possible, which is a shame, because those people might not become fans, and that weakens the franchise), you don't have to respond. Instead you make up a false issue about me being upset that I can't watch the show in the order I choose. And why do you have to take that dismissive tone?

BTW, you are flat wrong about it being broadcast in a random order. It was the best possible order to acheive dramatic tension.
Joojoobees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 02:48   Link #317
Mirrinus
Bemused Scholar
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Honestly, though, you can't say unequivocally that chronological order will hurt newer viewers that much. A lot of new viewers can and will be confused by a random episode order. Yes, I know it's not that difficult to figure out what's going on (man I loved that feeling when I first saw ep. 4), but a DVD release is different from seeing it on TV. Yes, Broadcast Order works VERY well for the series when it's released episode by episode, week by week. But for a DVD release, I'd say its impact is diminished.

Why did we enjoy broadcast order? Here are a few reasons:

1. The whole week-by-week release allowed us adequate time to digest confusing revelations without too much time passing and causing it to become stale or forgotten.

2. The impact of the climactic rise in the latter episodes is aided by the spaced out releases between the episodes. It prevents a "rushed" feeling.

3. Forum goers such as you and I are given the time to discuss each bizarre occurance as they come, instead of in large blocks of several episodes.

Now, in a DVD release, things are a bit different. We're getting episodes in chunks of 3 or 4 at a time, spaced out by weeks or even months. This really hurts the power of the anachronological order, IMHO. This series requires you to pay attention if you're watching broadcast order, and to have month-long gaps between new episodes really hampers your attention capabilities, especially for newer viewers.

Regarding series climax: at least with the last DVD, we're ending with Live A Live and Day of Sagitarrius, two very strong episodes. Someday in the Rain is more hit-and-miss, but hopefully by that time, we'll have news of Haruhi Season 2 (or possibly, it might already be out), so there's no reason for us to look at Someday in the Rain as the conclusive ending to the series. I have faith that it'll all work out.

My whole argument deals with new viewers, BTW. Kaioshin-sama has adequately explained why avid Haruhi fans shouldn't be hurt too much with chronological DVDs, since we certainly have the brainpower to rearrange a few DVD episodes for our own viewing pleasure.
Mirrinus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 03:19   Link #318
dkellis
illusion control
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Age: 31
Send a message via ICQ to dkellis Send a message via AIM to dkellis Send a message via MSN to dkellis
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKenobi View Post
Special Limited Edition retail price: $64.98
Right Stuf price: $48.74!! (who knows how long that'll last!)
What amuses me is that the price is $48.74, and there's a little standard icon below that which mentions that free shipping in the US begins at $49.

Eeeevil.

EDIT: New entry on the ASOS Brigade site:

Quote:
February 25, 2007 2230 PST
What is up with that cat's voice?! That doesn't sound like what a proper japanese cat should in english! I DEMAND A NEW VOICE FOR THE CAT!!! It appears I'm going to have to visit the studio and direct these episodes myself!
Okay, now they're just teasing us and our voice actor discussion/complaints.

Also, the little hidden text above the picture is now:

Quote:
We originate instead of imitate
No messages in the source code at this time of writing.

EDIT THE SECOND: If one gets the regular DVD edition and wishes to watch the TV broadcast order, the sequence might go something like this:

DVD1, episode 1, 2, 3 - DVD2, episode 4 - DVD1, episode 4 - DVD3, episode 2, 1, 3 - DVD4, episode 3 - DVD2, episode 1 - DVD4, episode 1, 2 - DVD2, episode 2, 3.

Seven disc changes overall, as opposed to three when watching in chronological order.

(This is not a complaint, since I'll be getting the Special Edition anyway. This is an observation borne from boredom.)
__________________
Damien Kellis (LJ)(anime blog)
The Genderswap Archive Of Haruhi Suzumiya
The Seitenkan FAQ of Haruhi Suzumiya
"That was actually quite thought-provoking. Does that violate the forum rules?"

Last edited by dkellis; 2007-02-27 at 03:29.
dkellis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 04:14   Link #319
quigonkenny
WRYYYYY!!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Elkia
Age: 41
Frankly, I don't see what all the hullabaloo is about the ordering of the series. Truth is, Tanagawa released the episodes out of order, published the novels out of order (except for the long stories, as has been noted), and apparently had a say in seeing the anime episodes released out of order, then he apparently asked that they be released chronologically (except for Asahina Mikuru no Bouken: Episode 00) on the DVDs. If that isn't a vote of support for both orders, I don't know what is. Yes, the series flows more dramatically in broadcast order. Yes, the series makes more sense in chronological order. Both are correct.

Why aren't they releasing the English dubs in broadcast order? Because they didn't in Japan. Simple as that. There're a number of specific reasons, most of which have been covered on this forum, but it all boils down to giving us what Japan got. Most English-speaking anime fans won't notice any fault in the plotline of the chronological order, and aren't going to get confused if they accidentally watch it in broadcast order. Those that would...well, let's be honest and say that they aren't likely to enjoy the show anyway.

The truth of the matter is, that the deceptive subtlety and Matrix-like theft, reuse, and abuse of previous anime stereotypes and situations that make this show so great to seasoned anime fans, are the same reasons this show isn't going to make many new anime fans. Cowboy Bebop made a lot of new anime fans. FMA will continue to make a lot of new anime fans. Black Lagoon, if it gets on Adult Swim, will make a crapload of new anime fans. Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is an anime for people who are already anime fans, and the episode order isn't going to make much of a difference to that.

You won't be seeing Haruhi on Adult Swim, and if you do, then that's Bandai's mistake, because it will fail. The audience there just won't see what we see. It's like taking some kid whose only experience with Heroic Bloodshed or Quentin Tarantino is watching Pulp Fiction on TBS, setting them down in front of Kill Bill I and II, and expecting them to enjoy the subtlety, not-so-subtlety, and homage infused throughout those movies. They'll like the decapitations, and the choreography, and Quentin Tarantino's funny dub of the ancient master, but they won't get as much out of it as someone who's a long-term fan of the genre. Your average budding anime fan, with 20-30 episodes of Naruto or Bleach (both of which I like, by the way) under their belt will like the Nagato fight, and Shamisen's dub, and AMnB:E00, and maybe even Live a Live or Day of Sagittarius, but they won't get a lot of the rest of the series, and might even get turned off of it because of that. If anyone's going to get turned off by episode order in any way, it'll probably be because the first episode is completely different than the rest of the series, and that's the same either way.

The true audience for this series is those who have already seen it, and Bandai knows this. That's why they got Kadokawa to spring for additional DVDs with broadcast order, is because 80% of us said we wanted it (hell, I voted for it, must have been 3-4 times). The best chances for a new audience for this show are the fansub avoiders, who probably will go for the SE versions out of principle, and today's new anime fans, a year or so from now, once they've had time to mature and get as obsessed as we are, just in time to get the DVDs so they can better enjoy Season 2.
quigonkenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-27, 04:52   Link #320
Joojoobees
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirrinus View Post
man I loved that feeling when I first saw ep. 4
That's what I'm talking about. I feel sorry for the people coming to it new, who Netflix the 1st DVD, and don't get that feeling.

Oh well, I guess I'm one of the lucky few.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
If one gets the regular DVD edition and wishes to watch the TV broadcast order, the sequence might go something like this:

DVD1, episode 1, 2, 3 - DVD2, episode 4 - DVD1, episode 4 - DVD3, episode 2, 1, 3 - DVD4, episode 3 - DVD2, episode 1 - DVD4, episode 1, 2 - DVD2, episode 2, 3.
Yeah, I realized it was more complicated than just using the remote, but it doesn't matter as much to me unless I am trying to show it to someone else. I already did it BOTH ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
The true audience for this series is those who have already seen it, and Bandai knows this.
Maybe so. I hope it does get the attention of some new folks, though, because it is so great.
Joojoobees is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.