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Old 2008-10-19, 11:46   Link #2101
loltan
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Technically, if Rolo's Geass made any sense, they would have died.


BTW: Kallen and Suzaku both suck. Piloting a KMF is easy. Euphy could do it. I'm sure Rivalz can too. The only reason they were strong was because of Lloyd and Cecile.
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Old 2008-10-19, 11:49   Link #2102
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Ever heard of anything called pilot skill? Piloting one is easy. Using one to the best of its abilities is certainly not. Kallen and Suzaku had skill, Euphie, having only piloted a KMF twice (a Portman once and a Gloucester next) did not.
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Old 2008-10-19, 12:03   Link #2103
bladeofdarkness
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both were piloting (at different points in the show) a machine that Lloyd said no one could pilot (and he built one, and all but rebuilt the other)
lelouch could pilot a machine
but only real pilots can use a tallgise
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Old 2008-10-19, 12:06   Link #2104
loltan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Ever heard of anything called pilot skill? Piloting one is easy. Using one to the best of its abilities is certainly not. Kallen and Suzaku had skill, Euphie, having only piloted a KMF twice (a Portman once and a Gloucester next) did not.
Skill does not exist. Piloting a Knightmare is like playing a PS2.

Lloyd is a fool, he goes, "Nobody can pilot this thing!"

Kallen goes, "This is exactly the same as the old Guren! Piece of cake."

There's a bit of a continuity issue there.
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Old 2008-10-19, 12:11   Link #2105
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loltan View Post
Skill does not exist. Piloting a Knightmare is like playing a PS2.

Lloyd is a fool, he goes, "Nobody can pilot this thing!"

Kallen goes, "This is exactly the same as the old Guren! Piece of cake."

There's a bit of a continuity issue there.

actually kallen being able to use the SEITEN makes sense
she did know the old guren like the back of her hand (no other pilot in the show had as much personal and emotional conection to their machine)
she just needed to learn how to use the new fetures instead of learning it all from scratch (which any britannian test pilot would have to)
its like learning to jaggle while learning to ride a bike (at the same time)
kallen already know how to jaggle and how to ride a bike and only needed to learn to do then at the same time
suzaku on the other hand is rather odd
but that was the whole point of his character in the first season (the kira yamato born to pilot thing)
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Old 2008-10-19, 12:11   Link #2106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loltan View Post
Skill does not exist. Piloting a Knightmare is like playing a PS2.

Lloyd is a fool, he goes, "Nobody can pilot this thing!"

Kallen goes, "This is exactly the same as the old Guren! Piece of cake."

There's a bit of a continuity issue there.
That's what Lloyd thought. He modified it to such a degree that he thought no-one but Suzaku could pilot it, and, indeed, he actually intended for Suzaku to use it. He was wrong, because Kallen is a pilot on Suzaku's level. Also, she never said that the whole mech was exactly the same, she said, "The system is the same, huh?", referring to the cockpit and all contained within.

Oh, and there's also something that disproves your argument- the Rounds. How they were depicted in R2 aside, they're the 12 most, read, skilled KMF pilots in Britannia. Did you think they would give those positions to Faceless Mook A to L?
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Old 2008-10-19, 12:22   Link #2107
loltan
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
That's what Lloyd thought. He modified it to such a degree that he thought no-one but Suzaku could pilot it, and, indeed, he actually intended for Suzaku to use it. He was wrong, because Kallen is a pilot on Suzaku's level. Also, she never said that the whole mech was exactly the same, she said, "The system is the same, huh?", referring to the cockpit and all contained within.

Oh, and there's also something that disproves your argument- the Rounds. How they were depicted in R2 aside, they're the 12 most, read, skilled KMF pilots in Britannia. Did you think they would give those positions to Faceless Mook A to L?
Actually, some of the rounds are faceless mooks.

the only named rounds are 0, 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12. The former Knight of 7 became the former Knight of Zero, so the guy who would/could have replaced Suzaku is unknown. Knight of 2, 5, 8 and 11 are unknown as well. We can only assume that Knight of Eleven was Japanese. Otherwise they are in fact, faceless mooks.

Anyways, piloting a Knightmare is all about the system. If you know the system you know the Frame. If Lloyd modified the system Kallen should still have some difficulty because the only Britannian Knightmare she's ever touched is the Glasgow, which is way outdated by now.
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Old 2008-10-19, 12:27   Link #2108
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Britannian and Japanese KMFs (the SEITEN still being the latter) have the exact same controls. And I don't see why they would modify the control yolk anyway.

And the reason that 2, 5, 8, and 11 weren't shown was because not all the seats were filled. That doesn't mean they suck at piloting. And 0 was a rank created by Lelouch for the purpose of a rather ironic name.
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Old 2008-10-19, 12:28   Link #2109
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by loltan View Post
Actually, some of the rounds are faceless mooks.

the only named rounds are 0, 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12. The former Knight of 7 became the former Knight of Zero, so the guy who would/could have replaced Suzaku is unknown. Knight of 2, 5, 8 and 11 are unknown as well. We can only assume that Knight of Eleven was Japanese. Otherwise they are in fact, faceless mooks.

Anyways, piloting a Knightmare is all about the system. If you know the system you know the Frame. If Lloyd modified the system Kallen should still have some difficulty because the only Britannian Knightmare she's ever touched is the Glasgow, which is way outdated by now.
actually kallen said that the basic system was the same
its the other things that were different (she said it looks different)
and she did read the Fing manual
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Old 2008-10-19, 12:54   Link #2110
loltan
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Britannian and Japanese KMFs (the SEITEN still being the latter) have the exact same controls. And I don't see why they would modify the control yolk anyway.

And the reason that 2, 5, 8, and 11 weren't shown was because not all the seats were filled. That doesn't mean they suck at piloting. And 0 was a rank created by Lelouch for the purpose of a rather ironic name.
There's a pic out there showing the differences between Britannian cockpits and Japanese cockpits. I can't find it, but it's out there. You can also watch some of the sequences when Kallen and Tohdoh are featured.

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actually kallen said that the basic system was the same
its the other things that were different (she said it looks different)
and she did read the Fing manual
If you could learn how to pilot the KMF by reading the manual then it proves my point. Rivalz is the best pilot ever.
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Old 2008-10-19, 12:56   Link #2111
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Originally Posted by loltan View Post
If you could learn how to pilot the KMF by reading the manual then it proves my point. Rivalz is the best pilot ever.

she read the manual about the new fetures add to her old machine (which she spent over a year piloting and knew like the back of her hand)
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Old 2008-10-19, 13:05   Link #2112
loltan
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she read the manual about the new fetures add to her old machine (which she spent over a year piloting and knew like the back of her hand)
Ok, fine, then Tamaki's the best pilot then. The Guren system and the Akatsuki systems are identical.
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Old 2008-10-19, 13:24   Link #2113
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Again, I stress, Kallen has skill, which does exist. Just because you read a manual doesn't mean you're king of the hill. You can pilot the damn thing, sure, but battle's a different beast. Tamaki, on the other hand, served to get shot down time and time again.
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Old 2008-10-19, 13:32   Link #2114
bladeofdarkness
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suzaku was able to use the lancelot while other test pilots couldnt even make it move
kallen could use her glassgo to take out saterlands
and jeremia was able to fight off 4 saterlands alone
skill is very much a factor
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Old 2008-10-19, 15:14   Link #2115
loltan
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Just look at what happens inside the cockpit. It's all just pull levers and push buttons (or typing for Lelouch).

Kallen didn't destroy any Sutherlands with the Glasgow. She's only managed to run away from Jeremiah.

Suzaku only showed the highest feedback ratings in Lancelot. Anyone was able to make it move.

Jeremiah was getting his ass kicked before Suzaku showed up. If Kewell had some common sense and just started off by using the Chaos Mine instead of letting his ego get in the way Jeremiah would be dead.

Nobody ever fights seriously against Kallen while they go all out on Tamaki. For example, when Suzaku defeats Tamaki, he slices him with the MVS and then shoots him with the VARIS. Against Kallen, Suzaku uses his MVS in situations where the VARIS and the wing blasts were clearly the better options, resulting in his losing the VARIS. He also cuts up Xingke's slash harkens yet allows Kallen to knock his swords out of his hands with her harkens.

If you go further back into the first season, if Suzaku just flew in the air and fired VARIS shots in Stage 24 Kallen would be dead before R2.

Piloting a KMF is easy, no skill involved. It's the fact that the pilots lack common sense that creates this mirage that skill exists.
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Old 2008-10-19, 15:20   Link #2116
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Originally Posted by loltan View Post
Just look at what happens inside the cockpit. It's all just pull levers and push buttons (or typing for Lelouch).

Kallen didn't destroy any Sutherlands with the Glasgow. She's only managed to run away from Jeremiah.

Suzaku only showed the highest feedback ratings in Lancelot. Anyone was able to make it move.

Jeremiah was getting his ass kicked before Suzaku showed up. If Kewell had some common sense and just started off by using the Chaos Mine instead of letting his ego get in the way Jeremiah would be dead.

Nobody ever fights seriously against Kallen while they go all out on Tamaki. For example, when Suzaku defeats Tamaki, he slices him with the MVS and then shoots him with the VARIS. Against Kallen, Suzaku uses his MVS in situations where the VARIS and the wing blasts were clearly the better options, resulting in his losing the VARIS. He also cuts up Xingke's slash harkens yet allows Kallen to knock his swords out of his hands with her harkens.

If you go further back into the first season, if Suzaku just flew in the air and fired VARIS shots in Stage 24 Kallen would be dead before R2.

Piloting a KMF is easy, no skill involved. It's the fact that the pilots lack common sense that creates this mirage that skill exists.
Well, maybe you should open up your mind and see that Taniguchi wanted the characters to live? It doesn't downgrade their skill. Every pilot, no matter how skilled, gets his/her ass kicked once in a while.

Also, you clearly didn't see Kallen, oh, caving in the floor on a practical army of Sutherlands. Go watch Stage 2 again.

Mind you as well, Kallen could dodge VARIS shots, and Jeremiah likewise with a Chaos Mine. Oh, but I guess they can't, because something that requires skill to be done can't be done because skill is nonexistant.

And Suzaku Harkened Tamaki, otherwise he would be dead.

And no-one was able to make the Lancelot move beyond a twitch before Suzaku came around. Oh, but since they made it move, I guess they're the best pilots ever.

Do describe this lack of common sense, please, as well. I'm honestly intrigued.
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Old 2008-10-19, 15:21   Link #2117
morbosfist
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Would you please stop trolling? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about since Tamaki was hit by Slash Harkens, not the VARIS (he'd be dead), and Suzaku wasn't even trying against him.
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Old 2008-10-19, 15:47   Link #2118
loltan
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Well, maybe you should open up your mind and see that Taniguchi wanted the characters to live? It doesn't downgrade their skill. Every pilot, no matter how skilled, gets his/her ass kicked once in a while.

Also, you clearly didn't see Kallen, oh, caving in the floor on a practical army of Sutherlands. Go watch Stage 2 again.

Mind you as well, Kallen could dodge VARIS shots, and Jeremiah likewise with a Chaos Mine. Oh, but I guess they can't, because something that requires skill to be done can't be done because skill is nonexistant.

And Suzaku Harkened Tamaki, otherwise he would be dead.

And no-one was able to make the Lancelot move beyond a twitch before Suzaku came around. Oh, but since they made it move, I guess they're the best pilots ever.

Do describe this lack of common sense, please, as well. I'm honestly intrigued.
You're quite rude. You should know what you sound like when you tell someone to watch an episode again. I'll just respond to that one by defending myself that I have better things to do than to rewatch Geass 24/7.

Anyways, Kallen doesn't have the knowledge to shoot the slash harken at that specific point. Lelouch probably told her to do that.


Also, you can't dodge a chaos mine. Truth is truth. It sprays everywhere, you can only pray your shielding is good enough.

Ok fine, he slashed harkened Tamaki. he still used more effort against him than he did against Kallen. He had an entire coversation with her before he came to his senses and started to blast her.

Which brings me to what I was talking about with common sense. In a battlefield, you do not have conversations you shoot the hell out of your opponent. (Suzaku, Kallen)

You also do not wait for your enemies to try to figure out your power and Knightmare equipment potential (Rolo)

You do not finish off an enemy (Gino) halfway (Suzaku) and allow him to come back in an even stronger robot (Tristan Divider)

When you have two ultra powerful VARIS and a set of energy wings with blasts and you see a slash harken coming towards you you do not throw your guns down and catch the harken. (Suzaku) It would be wiser to fly back using your super speed and shoot the harken and the knightmare to death (Gino, Tristan)

Do not take your time in defeating the enemy commander. You will lose your four sexy subordinates and get blown up due to a radiation surge if you do so. (Luciano)

When in a pinch, do not operate your Knightmare in an abnormal way, e.g. crossing your arms while typing on the keyboard


There's so many more. The producers destroy the characters' common sense in order to progress the story. It's so full of lolz.

Would you please stop trolling? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about since Tamaki was hit by Slash Harkens, not the VARIS (he'd be dead), and Suzaku wasn't even trying against him.

You can just shut up. I've already explained how people actually try against Tamaki and used Kallen as the counterexample. VARIS or harken it's both the same. Yes, I clearly have no idea what I am talking about because I do not bother memorizing every detail of every episode of Code Geass.
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Old 2008-10-19, 15:55   Link #2119
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You have no idea what you're talking about because you're deliberately trolling, which is also "quite rude".

Oh, yes, this is also anime. Not everything has to run on common sense, because if it did, it would be boring as hell, especially if Geass relied on common sense to please viewers. Analyzing a Frame's power potential, having conversations that try to expand on characters and not blowing the shit out of them otherwise, having ninth-gen Frames adds differentiation from the norm...and I'll also provide counters.

* Gino was the only one out of the Rounds he faced that he was willing to spare.

* Luciano had only just started drilling away at the Shinkiro proper before Kallen came along. Shinkiro's shields, despite being drained, were still rather impenetrable. And Luciano made a logical move by retreating as well, otherwise he would have been killed along with the Valkyries by the pinballing SEITEN.

* The Tristan's Harkens were big as all heck. Suzaku had no choice other than to drop the guns (which were replaced or recovered the very same episode) and grab the oncoming projectiles.

* Crossing your arms has no detrimental effect. For Lelouch, anyway.

Though it seems you wanted Geass to be a bread and butter show that relied on common sense and not a degree of fantasy to keep us interested.
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Old 2008-10-19, 16:07   Link #2120
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by loltan View Post
Also, you can't dodge a chaos mine. Truth is truth. It sprays everywhere, you can only pray your shielding is good enough.
Battle of Narita, Stage 11. Tohdoh and at least one other person dodge a mine thrown by Guilford. Your point fails.

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Ok fine, he slashed harkened Tamaki. he still used more effort against him than he did against Kallen. He had an entire coversation with her before he came to his senses and started to blast her.
This is just stupid. He not only harkened her repeatedly, he shot the VARIS at her at least three times, all of which missed or she blocked, broke her sword and lost his in return, and a bunch of other crap that only succeeded in getting both of them beaten into scrap.

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Which brings me to what I was talking about with common sense. In a battlefield, you do not have conversations you shoot the hell out of your opponent. (Suzaku, Kallen)
You do in anime. Always.

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You also do not wait for your enemies to try to figure out your power and Knightmare equipment potential (Rolo)
Again, anime, yes you do.

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Originally Posted by loltan View Post
You do not finish off an enemy (Gino) halfway (Suzaku) and allow him to come back in an even stronger robot (Tristan Divider)
Ditto for the rest of the quotes I'm omitting.

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You can just shut up. I've already explained how people actually try against Tamaki and used Kallen as the counterexample. VARIS or harken it's both the same. Yes, I clearly have no idea what I am talking about because I do not bother memorizing every detail of every episode of Code Geass.
Same goes to you. Quit bothering us with your nonsense. You're clearly not trying to do anything other than waste time by making stupid and very ill-informed arguments.
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