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Old 2008-10-19, 16:14   Link #2121
loltan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
You have no idea what you're talking about because you're deliberately trolling, which is also "quite rude".

Oh, yes, this is also anime. Not everything has to run on common sense, because if it did, it would be boring as hell, especially if Geass relied on common sense to please viewers. Analyzing a Frame's power potential, having conversations that try to expand on characters and not blowing the shit out of them otherwise, having ninth-gen Frames adds differentiation from the norm...and I'll also provide counters.

* Gino was the only one out of the Rounds he faced that he was willing to spare.

* Luciano had only just started drilling away at the Shinkiro proper before Kallen came along. Shinkiro's shields, despite being drained, were still rather impenetrable. And Luciano made a logical move by retreating as well, otherwise he would have been killed along with the Valkyries by the pinballing SEITEN.

* The Tristan's Harkens were big as all heck. Suzaku had no choice other than to drop the guns (which were replaced or recovered the very same episode) and grab the oncoming projectiles.

* Crossing your arms has no detrimental effect. For Lelouch, anyway.

Though it seems you wanted Geass to be a bread and butter show that relied on common sense and not a degree of fantasy to keep us interested.
Again, your rudeness shows itself as you accuse me of trolling. Of course diehard fans will dismiss the points I make as pure nonsense. But my point has its validity. Skill does not exist in Code Geass Knightmare Frame piloting. It's all about who has the stronger Knightmare. If you really think I'm trolling you should have just ignored me. Since you've responded it shows that my point has it's due validity.

So time to make a few turns:

*Suzaku lacked logic there as he should have calculated the possibility that Gino would return as a more formidable enemy. He didn't even think to imprison him and bring him to Lelouch.

*Luciano has friggin hadron cannons in the legs of the Percival. Lelouch's shields were already weakened by Anya. Just shoot the shield some more and Lelouch is dead. He also spent five seconds or so just holding the drill connected to the Mirage without drilling it in. He could have killed Lelouch but passed the chance because of pride.

*Lancelot Albion is faster than Tristan's harken. Just fly back and either VARIS or wing blast and Gino's dead.

*If you say so, then fine, no detrimental effect. But the fact that he was willing to play around and cross and uncross his arms means that he's not entirely focused on the task at hand.



Lastly, even in scifi, there's at least some sort of made up "scientific explanation" as to why certain things defy logic (e.g. sakuradite, float system, radiation surge) when you see them piloting, you can immediately tell what the outcome of the battle is.

Another example:

Jeremiah v. Suzaku, 2nd battle of Tokyo: Jeremiah does not use his slash harkens, even when Gino comes to Suzaku's rescue. Later we learn that the Sutherland Sieg has a heck of a lot of equipment, enough to defeat the Conquista since Suzaku can't load his hadron blaster as fast as Jeremiah can ram the Conquista with radiation shielding and then harken the Knightmare using that giant spear/ram thing.
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Old 2008-10-19, 16:15   Link #2122
loltan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Battle of Narita, Stage 11. Tohdoh and at least one other person dodge a mine thrown by Guilford. Your point fails.

This is just stupid. He not only harkened her repeatedly, he shot the VARIS at her at least three times, all of which missed or she blocked, broke her sword and lost his in return, and a bunch of other crap that only succeeded in getting both of them beaten into scrap.

You do in anime. Always.

Again, anime, yes you do.

Ditto for the rest of the quotes I'm omitting.

Same goes to you. Quit bothering us with your nonsense. You're clearly not trying to do anything other than waste time by making stupid and very ill-informed arguments.
Tohdoh has a break sword which most Knightmares do not have. It's a very special case exception.

Oh yes, three times is so much he should have just kept shooting to apply more pressure. I also mentioned that he doesn't use wing blasts on Kallen. If he had comboed that with the VARIS, he woud have been able to deplete her stocks of radiation surge, which is used for shielding, flight, and offense while he still has MVS if he runs out of energy and VARIS shots. Suzaku's long MVS, which he has 2 of is superior to Kallen's stubby, short MVD

Oh yes, because your counters are so informative. If you think I'm wasting your time then don't respond.
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Old 2008-10-19, 16:18   Link #2123
Dream_Traveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loltan View Post
So time to make a few turns:

*Suzaku lacked logic there as he should have calculated the possibility that Gino would return as a more formidable enemy. He didn't even think to imprison him and bring him to Lelouch.

*Luciano has friggin hadron cannons in the legs of the Percival. Lelouch's shields were already weakened by Anya. Just shoot the shield some more and Lelouch is dead. He also spent five seconds or so just holding the drill connected to the Mirage without drilling it in. He could have killed Lelouch but passed the chance because of pride.

*Lancelot Albion is faster than Tristan's harken. Just fly back and either VARIS or wing blast and Gino's dead.

*If you say so, then fine, no detrimental effect. But the fact that he was willing to play around and cross and uncross his arms means that he's not entirely focused on the task at hand.
This is an anime wherein people have mind-controlling, thought-reading or time-stopping powers, and there's a weapon that can erase individuality, and you expect Geass to be entirely logical?

I'll refute your points with simple answers.

* Logic or not (oooh, logic), Gino was hardly more formidable against Suzaku anyway. In fact, he got dealt with just as quickly.

* Lelouch wasn't meant to die.

* Gino wasn't meant to die.

* Lelouch was in no way unfocused, and he crossed his arms for all of about 10 seconds.
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Old 2008-10-19, 16:25   Link #2124
loltan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
This is an anime wherein people have mind-controlling, thought-reading or time-stopping powers, and there's a weapon that can erase individuality, and you expect Geass to be entirely logical?

I'll refute your points with simple answers.

* Logic or not (oooh, logic), Gino was hardly more formidable against Suzaku anyway. In fact, he got dealt with just as quickly.

* Lelouch wasn't meant to die.

* Gino wasn't meant to die.

* Lelouch was in no way unfocused, and he crossed his arms for all of about 10 seconds.
Turn time:

*Gino allowed Kallen to get in Suzaku's way by disabling part of the Blaze on the Damocles

*But he should have, if things made any sense

*See one above

*He was crossing and uncrossing, multitasking where unnecessary, that's being unfocused. "Hey! I'll play with my arms while trying to get my sister out of a warzone because those two things are equally important!"

Like I've said before, logic makes its way into the trash for the story to progress. Part of a good story is that it has somewhat realistic elements. Season 1 kinda had it, R2 completely lost it.
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Old 2008-10-19, 16:29   Link #2125
Dream_Traveller
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* Because that was going to happen. Clash of the titans. Inevitable.

* But he didn't, because he had to play his role- saving Kallen.

* But he didn't, because he had to play his role- Zero Requiem, going through betrayal, saved by Rolo, all that.

* Does it even matter? Lelouch as Zero is a poser.

I honestly don't know why you expect an anime such as this to follow a dead-set logical, military (in terms of mech battles) code. If you want something like that out of mecha, I suggest VOTOMS, or maybe FMP. This isn't meant to be flat-out logical.
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Old 2008-10-19, 16:50   Link #2126
morbosfist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loltan View Post
Tohdoh has a break sword which most Knightmares do not have. It's a very special case exception.
He didn't have the break sword at the time, merely the normal chainsaw sword. Fail again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loltan View Post
Oh yes, three times is so much he should have just kept shooting to apply more pressure. I also mentioned that he doesn't use wing blasts on Kallen. If he had comboed that with the VARIS, he woud have been able to deplete her stocks of radiation surge, which is used for shielding, flight, and offense while he still has MVS if he runs out of energy and VARIS shots. Suzaku's long MVS, which he has 2 of is superior to Kallen's stubby, short MVD
Or she just dodges the wing attack because it's an inaccurate beam spam meant for large groups of things or very big things. The rest of your point isn't even trying. he lost the MVS to her Slash Harkens, which continue to function past the ammo loss, and he would likewise deplete his energy with ineffective beam spam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loltan View Post
Oh yes, because your counters are so informative. If you think I'm wasting your time then don't respond.
You first. Quit trolling already.
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Old 2008-10-19, 18:46   Link #2127
loltan
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
* Because that was going to happen. Clash of the titans. Inevitable.

* But he didn't, because he had to play his role- saving Kallen.

* But he didn't, because he had to play his role- Zero Requiem, going through betrayal, saved by Rolo, all that.

* Does it even matter? Lelouch as Zero is a poser.

I honestly don't know why you expect an anime such as this to follow a dead-set logical, military (in terms of mech battles) code. If you want something like that out of mecha, I suggest VOTOMS, or maybe FMP. This isn't meant to be flat-out logical.
You're arguments are becoming non-responsive, or rather you've been agreeing with what I've been saying since you accept that logic doesn't exist.

It's about Knightmares, not skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
He didn't have the break sword at the time, merely the normal chainsaw sword. Fail again.

Or she just dodges the wing attack because it's an inaccurate beam spam meant for large groups of things or very big things. The rest of your point isn't even trying. he lost the MVS to her Slash Harkens, which continue to function past the ammo loss, and he would likewise deplete his energy with ineffective beam spam.

You first. Quit trolling already.
1) I'm not trolling.
2) Suzaku didn't use wing blasts on Kallen. If he did Kallen could not dodge it without crashing into Damocles or the blaze system.
3) Ok, I'll give you the argument about the chaos mine; however, it doesn't take much to dodge attacks in an open area.
3)
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Old 2008-10-19, 18:54   Link #2128
Dream_Traveller
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I'm saying that Geass isn't the most logical show on the block, not that logic doesn't exist. You want it to be all-out logical through what you say.

Oh, and by the way, Gino shut down the shielding, so Kallen had far much more room to breathe.

Last edited by Dream_Traveller; 2008-10-19 at 19:13.
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Old 2008-10-19, 18:58   Link #2129
morbosfist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loltan View Post
Suzaku didn't use wing blasts on Kallen. If he did Kallen could not dodge it without crashing into Damocles or the blaze system.
The one Gino blew up? Yeah. Also, as you point out, there is a big old structure all around them full of nooks to hide in. She wouldn't even need to block.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loltan View Post
Ok, I'll give you the argument about the chaos mine; however, it doesn't take much to dodge attacks in an open area.
Chaos mines don't spray shrapnel over that wide an area. The spray area in Stage 11 is only two or three Knightmares wide at most. Jeremiah couldn't move, so Suzaku had to block.
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Old 2008-10-19, 19:00   Link #2130
bladeofdarkness
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you could also ask why kallen didnt use the wide range or energy disk attacks (i dont think the albion's shield would have stood against the disks, since they look almost solid and much more powerfull then normal beams)
neither one would ever hit their target (and neither would the wing blast)
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Old 2008-10-19, 20:01   Link #2131
hero147
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
you could also ask why kallen didnt use the wide range or energy disk attacks (i dont think the albion's shield would have stood against the disks, since they look almost solid and much more powerfull then normal beams)
neither one would ever hit their target (and neither would the wing blast)
I think Luciano, blocked one of those disks during the second decisive battle of Tokyo, and since The lancelot is basically a generation above, I'm guessing it could.
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Old 2008-10-19, 20:06   Link #2132
bladeofdarkness
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I think Luciano, blocked one of those disks during the second decisive battle of Tokyo, and since The lancelot is basically a generation above, I'm guessing it could.
he had to drop the shield since it was sliceing past it and he could only drop it to keep it from hitting him
its seems like a more concentrated form of energy (which is probably ment for more armored targets
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Old 2008-10-19, 20:22   Link #2133
morbosfist
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Against the physical shield it worked. Much like her concentrated blast, it would likely just slide off the energy shield, in addition to probably being easier to dodge.
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Old 2008-10-19, 20:24   Link #2134
bladeofdarkness
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which was my whole point to start with
they didnt use any of those attacks since none would hit
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Old 2008-10-20, 15:20   Link #2135
dragonmeister
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Not to put out the joy you're obviously having from your flame war, but I have some general questions to try and find answers for:
1) How does stopping a person's perception of time cause their power-assisted mech to fall out of the sky? (Rolo when escaping with Lelouch in Turn 19)
2) What kind of idiot allowed the G-Train to be put in place? Lelouch is a teenage child, admittedly with geass, but surely he can't have got everyone? Most of the Black Knights aren't Brittanian, and those who are were probably blacklisted, and surely the horribly racist society of Brittania wouldn't allow a foreigner to make anything dealing with their precious citizens? Who could have put it in there?
Anyway, back to your war.
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Old 2008-10-20, 15:36   Link #2136
hero147
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Originally Posted by dragonmeister View Post
Not to put out the joy you're obviously having from your flame war, but I have some general questions to try and find answers for:
1) How does stopping a person's perception of time cause their power-assisted mech to fall out of the sky? (Rolo when escaping with Lelouch in Turn 19)
2) What kind of idiot allowed the G-Train to be put in place? Lelouch is a teenage child, admittedly with geass, but surely he can't have got everyone? Most of the Black Knights aren't Brittanian, and those who are were probably blacklisted, and surely the horribly racist society of Brittania wouldn't allow a foreigner to make anything dealing with their precious citizens? Who could have put it in there?
Anyway, back to your war.
1.It's like driving a car, even though you believe time isnt moving, the car will still move and fall off the bridge.
2. Lelouch is Britannian, and I'm pretty sure he geassed the train staff to install it for him
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Old 2008-10-20, 15:47   Link #2137
dragonmeister
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Thanks, hadn't looked at them those ways.
Very sad at loss of Code Geass to control my Sundays - would watch Gundam, but I feel that I am either too late, so wouldn't know important stuff, or that I'd do what I did with Bleach earlier this year - have an urge to binge entirely on all of Gundam to get up to date, turning me into a miserable obsessive wreck of a human being. Bleach was a mere 150 episodes, with downloading and PC switching slowing me down, but with a stabler environment, I don't know what I'd do.
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Old 2008-10-20, 16:17   Link #2138
Kyero Fox
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wow, why is this conversation still going on?
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Old 2008-10-26, 16:53   Link #2139
bladeofdarkness
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i have a theory i would like your input on
i think that the SEITEN functions in a way that could almost be descirbed as a fortress mode
it switches between the human mode and fortress mode by folding its wings around its body in much the same way as the tristain can switch between human mode and fortress mode
in human mode the SEITEN can use all of its functions and weapon systems (the arm the dagger and the harkens)
in fortress mode it turns into what has been dubbed "the pinball"
its wings surround it and prevent it from using its weapons
but they then serve as its weapons themselves by allowing it to smash into enemies and destroy them (we already know the wings can slice KMF's apart)
if you watch some of the fights kallen actually switches between the modes every time she uses the energy wings increased speed (which the albion does not do)
it doesnt change the form of the KMF completely (like the shinkiro and tristan) but it does switch modes for different functions (in her fight against the KoT, it almost seems to slow her down after dogging the missiles)
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Old 2008-12-18, 05:02   Link #2140
ZeroSama
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In relation to a fan-fic i'm writing atm i have a question about when the Shen-Hu was constructed.

I believe in Ep 10 or whatever it was stated that it was built at the same time as the original model Guren Nishki, but it was shelved indefinitely because they had went so far overspec that no-one could pilot it. Is this right or does my interpretation or sub suck?


However what about Kallen? Now i know shes more of a brawler than anything else but the Shen Hu was easily superior to the original Guren and equal too or slightly better than the enhanced aerial version. Kallen could handle the SEITEN though and its like what, over 9000 times better? Why didn't she get it? I'm sure she could've easily raped Suzaku in the Lancelot in S1 if she had it, plot constraints be damned.
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