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Old 2008-04-20, 01:57   Link #201
Renegade334
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1.Speed - While it can't outrun shells, thay can outrun tanks and turret easily.
Realistically speaking, at short range only. If a tank platoon was set to lay down barrage fire at incoming Knightmares from miles away, their chances of killing a KMF are maximized. However, when those bipedal machines close in, their efficiency rate should drop dramatically due to the fact that, indeed, they can outmaneuver a vehicle. It should also be remarked that in flat terrains, KMFs are slightly at a disadvantage (less if they can use ranged weapons such as antitank missiles) but if they're in a mountainous or hilly range the odds are increased in their favors, as they can scale slopes and surfaces a 60-80 ton tank certainly can't. I'd like to see an Abrams or a Leopard II do a wallride...O_O
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2.Ease and speed of deployment - They can deploy from dropship en masse withousy hassle of combat jet and have the power that rival tank.
As long as antiair defense is negated preemptively, though. If nobody's thought of sending a few aircrafts with HARM-type missiles to clear the way, those Knightmares are sitting ducks waiting for a good roasting...even for a MANPADS (Man Portable Air Defense System).
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3.Weapins - Slash harken seem to able pierce just about anything.
Once again, provided they can get close for the kill. If, for example, a slash harken's maximum range is fifty meters, they'll still have to cover that distance while evading enemy fire. Also, I'd still like to see whether a SH can totally defeat chobham or reactive armor - right now I more or less see it as an incapacitator weapon rather than a dedicated armor-piercing device. Soft-skinned vehicles and aircrafts are fair game but with laminated armor and all that? I don't know. In Iraq there have been repeated instances of Abrams tanks that had to be abandoned and destroyed to prevent Sadam's troops from acquiring them. There was one case whether not only a Bradley but a fellow Abrams had to pepper it with rounds before disabling it. And guess what? They failed to achieve spectacular results until a fighter jet let loose a Maverick missile that finally did the job. Chobham armor seems more resilient than it sounds but I dunno whether it's been invented in the CG world. People don't seem to have taken much interest in uranium and depleted uranium...at least until Nina came in the picture.
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4.Number - I think it said in wilipedia that the reason Britania win because the large number of Glasgow that overwhelming Japanese Defense Force.
The Japanese invasion was the first time someone used a KMF in battle. Only Britannia had those right then and Japan obviously didn't have time to develop or field a viable countermeasure against those brand new weapon systems (heck, in the novels it's hinted that Toudou's miracle involved luring Britannian troops towards a huge sakuradite bomb...a bit like what the Earth Federation did with the Cyclops in GS). Yet Britannia still used conventional weapons such as cruise missiles, stealth fighters to cripple Japan from afar. It's standard procedure.
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Last edited by Renegade334; 2008-04-20 at 03:18.
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Old 2008-04-20, 11:04   Link #202
0rphen21
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guys what are your speculations and idea's on which is stronger? Gawain's or pink haired loli's knightmare's primary weapon or there main guns
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Old 2008-04-20, 11:13   Link #203
ashlay
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Originally Posted by 0rphen21 View Post
guys what are your speculations and idea's on which is stronger? Gawain's or pink haired loli's knightmare's primary weapon or there main guns
Gawain's size (and that energy filler coming out of nowhere in 20) would suggest the Gawain had a whole bunch more energy fillers onboard, meaning it could use the hadron cannons a whole lot more and possibly even at some sort of higher output.

however, it lost maneuverability in exchange for that, since again, it's absolutely huge.
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Old 2008-04-20, 11:16   Link #204
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I thought the float system helped Gawain out on that score though?
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Old 2008-04-20, 11:23   Link #205
ashlay
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I thought the float system helped Gawain out on that score though?
a bigger body is still a bigger target.
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Old 2008-04-20, 11:29   Link #206
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Well, it's not like doesn't have the speed to back it up when it's flying, look at the fight with Orange-kun.
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Old 2008-04-20, 15:00   Link #207
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Still, the fact that it is larger than most Knightmares makes it a even bigger target. Jeremiah's mech seemed built for manuverability.
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Old 2008-04-21, 00:07   Link #208
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Spoiler for hid for space saving:


Wow...completely and uttery counter my points. As expected of moderator. Still, I have some left to say. Closing in isn't a problem for as almost all knightmare shown in CG had a unrivaled charging speed(Guren mk2, heck even Glasgow kinda fast) compare to conventional land-based weapon/ They can quickly close in and fight in close range where they had greater advantage. And concentrated fire can destroy almost anything.

Not to forget that knightmare shown in opening scene basicly hanging from drop ship where they can atleast used their machine guns give some cover fire. Not to forget their number, shoot down some, got alot more.

You are right when you said Britannia still used conventional weapons. But I doubt it do much that to weaken JDF. At the end of the day, you still need to send infantry and tanks to deal the finishing blow and Knightmare Frame did a better job than both of it.
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Old 2008-04-21, 00:14   Link #209
ashlay
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Originally Posted by Meteor No.23 View Post
Wow...completely and uttery counter my points. As expected of moderator.
I think you mean a....Graphic Designer! :O
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Old 2008-04-21, 07:25   Link #210
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When we see Orange-kun in the op,he wears white and purple outfit and a custom Vincent that attacks Todous upgraded Gekka is painted...white and purple.Could it be?
Also OoBK seems to have a major upgrade in form of their KFs equiped with FLOAT system...but why give all of them an odd head shape?

Last edited by Sander RX; 2008-04-21 at 07:48.
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Old 2008-04-21, 07:52   Link #211
Dann of Thursday
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I doubt it's Jeremiah. If it's anyone I would think it is Guildford.

What odd head shape? The heads look the same as always.
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Old 2008-04-21, 10:57   Link #212
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Completely change of topic. Lelou's new contact. Here's my major question, can he actually see out of that eye when the contacts in?

In my head I'd say know, the geass is visible normally, so unless the contact has a special filter I don't under stand how he can see and the geass be non visible.
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Old 2008-04-21, 10:58   Link #213
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I think so, C.C said it was special so I think he can see through it, just that it was grafted with something to filter the Geass out... I don't know, maybe she mixed her blood in the coloring or something?
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Old 2008-04-21, 15:34   Link #214
Dann of Thursday
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Her telling him not to ask about it was actuall quite suspicious.
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Old 2008-04-21, 15:43   Link #215
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Her telling him not to ask about it was actuall quite suspicious.
There's A LOT of things she's not telling him.

After watching that EEU battle I was wondering. Where are the jet fighters? Surely a squadron of F-22's would've wasted that entire defense line of Knightmares.

Since Suzaku easily landed in the mist I'm assuming neither side has any actual anti-air or arieal units in that fight.
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Old 2008-04-21, 15:46   Link #216
Dann of Thursday
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
There's A LOT of things she's not telling him.

After watching that EEU battle I was wondering. Where are the jet fighters? Surely a squadron of F-22's would've wasted that entire defense line of Knightmares.

Since Suzaku easily landed in the mist I'm assuming neither side has any actual anti-air or arieal units in that fight.
True, which doesn't help Lelouch at all since some info would actually help him.

This is mecha anime. No air support could ever take on a robot even if it would make sense.
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Old 2008-04-21, 16:01   Link #217
ashlay
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Her telling him not to ask about it was actually quite suspicious.
探れる会話ありません is closer to "there's nothing to discuss" than "you don't need to know". She's not telling Lelouch so much that he shouldn't ask about where she got it, just that he doesn't need to worry about it blocking his geass...for now.
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Old 2008-04-21, 16:02   Link #218
Dann of Thursday
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Oh, I misunderstood then. The fact that it could strong enough to the point where the contact would no longer work is rather interesting though.
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Old 2008-04-21, 20:22   Link #219
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
True, which doesn't help Lelouch at all since some info would actually help him.

This is mecha anime. No air support could ever take on a robot even if it would make sense.
I think I'm one of the few people out there who'd pay to see an anime with real world weapons (or near-real) with real tactics, employment, blah blah blah...

Why not? You can do with animation what would be too costly to do in real life (TV, movie).

I don't know why I watch mecha sometimes. Maybe I'm a masochist. All I do is sit there and b*tch to myself about the stupidity of mechs.

I was watching the special features on the Appleseed: Ex Machina DVD the other night and I was pleased to hear that Masamune Shirow is irked when he watches or reads a traditional mecha anime/manga, sitting there going, "That's not even remotely possible," or, "Materials don't work that way." So he at least makes an attempt to keep his mechanized shells semi-real in his works.

Knightmare Frames probably piss me off more than most because it looks like the designers were thinking for a second that maybe they could make this stuff real, but then were just, "Aww, **** it. Go all out! Put frickin' laser beams on their heads!" (I know they don't actually... Movie reference... Kudos to who knows which...).
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Old 2008-04-21, 20:32   Link #220
Dann of Thursday
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Well, the thing I like about the Knightmare's weapons is that some of them actual use some ideas of real science behind them though of course they bend these ideas to fit with the anime. I'd like to actually see a Knightmare offensive fall to a well planned out attack using conventional weapons like tanks.
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