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Old 2008-04-22, 12:28   Link #241
Onizuka-GTO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
If I was the European Supreme Commander in Code Geass, i would demand all military units to be designed as highly mobile and able to pack up and move at a minute's notice. No point fighting a futile battle, you just have to move back in position once the champion unit retreat for a recharge. As I previously suggested, Britannia likely doesn't have as much usable men as one might believe. They couldn't even spare any of the Knights of the Round when Zero made his first rebellion attempt.

do the european frames have landspinners? they do look more heavily armoured compared to the Brits

i mean even the chinese frames have wheels on theirs....
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Old 2008-04-22, 12:40   Link #242
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
They shot him... they just missed or he dodged it. Can't have a main character dying to no-name grunts now can you? >_>
Dude even the Chinese knightmares fared better against Lancelot.

Quote:
do the european frames have landspinners? they do look more heavily armoured compared to the Brits
They should I mean they were skimming towards Lancelot.
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Old 2008-04-22, 12:50   Link #243
Strettger
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Heh, I know how Knightmares delevoped, I'm just noting what the Glasgow was built for - killing tanks.

And that Brittania still fields tanks, so I was wondering if Knightmare comes from walking ejection system, and ultimatly replaces tank destroyer.
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Old 2008-04-22, 18:26   Link #244
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strettger View Post
Just a thought but could Knightmares be considered the successors to tank destroyers in terms of their role as opposed to a replacement for the tank in general?

In the siege of the Embassy I note the prescence of numerous large tanks, the heavy weapons with high recoil, flanked by KMF, agile, lighter guns.
I don't think that the knightmare frames really work as tank destroyers - this combat niche has been largely replaced in modern inventories with either multi-purpose IFVs or main battle tanks because the tank destroyer has lots of disadvantages compared to either. Instead, they are more of a multi-purpose do-it-all kind of unit. The more they are depicted, the more it seems as if the creators have decided to use them to replace just about every other combat arm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMvS View Post
Aircrafts non efective against armored units!? Here are historical examples of very effective armor killers:

Ilyushin Il-2 for WWII

A 10 Thunderbolt II for Gulf War

Armor are weak against air to ground attack (diving bomb, missile, 30+mm shells and other clever weapon) as their armor are mainly designed against ground to ground weapons (landmines, bazooka, canons).
That's why large armored formations include anti aircraft vehicles.
Close air support like the Il-2 and the A-10 are very effective aircraft, but they are predominantly effective against soft vehicles, not enemy armor. In general, massed armor formations do have to take countermeasures against air attack, but these countermeasures also tend to be quite successful in limiting the losses from that source until they've been overrun by the enemy ground forces. The Gulf War is an excellent case in point: while the continual Coalition air attacks whittled down the Iraqi morale, their top ground formations were still quite capable of fighting until they were broken by the ground offensive.

The top armor of even the heaviest main battle tank isn't very thick, and it doesn't provide much protection against direct hits, but that's not entirely the reason why they stand against air attack fairly well. but that's not where all of their protection comes from. In order to defeat prepared enemy armor, attack craft have to first evade enemy air defences, then find the target tanks, and then score direct hits (near misses are all but useless against heavy armor) with an effective weapon. This is all but impossible to do at 3000+m altitude, and without sufficient time over the target, so it comes back to my previous point about employing aircraft that loiter over enemy territory for long periods of time and at low altitudes.

The one time that aircraft can be fairly effective against tanks is when those tanks are on the offensive, and can't utilize proper countermeasures. But that's akin to saying that it's effective when the enemy make a mistake.
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Old 2008-04-22, 19:22   Link #245
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About the impact of airpower in CG, apart from ep 1 where we could see F22 like jets and gunships/transports, the only aircrafts we have seen as far as R2, are:
-the "jetcopters" that get recurrently shot down by Slash Harkens
-the KMF carriers.
-Avalon

For season 1 this relative absence of using given air supremacy can be understandable as the conflict was of low intensity, focusing on guerrilla and urban skirmishes mainly (but I wonder if all the aircrafts Cornelia sent as bait in ep 24-25 were only KMF carriers).

But for R2, especially considering the EU front which seems to be a full scale war, even more than the lack of airpower, is the fact that a landing fleet seems to be only a vehicle for close combat armored vehicles

Admitting that if we haven't seen any aircrafts in ep 28 was because of resupply delay/mutual destruction/bad military doctrine, it would be kinda weird if a major power holding naval supremacy wouldn't support a landing party with artillery (especially as these Panzer Hummels on the cliffs made obvious targets), so either:
-Britannia's navy is weirdly equipped and I wonder how it could hold naval supremacy
-Schneizel doesn't like to use all the means at his disposition to ensure victory
-Schneizel deligths in seing his soldiers being killed.
-Schneizel wants Suzaku to be killed (Yay!)
-That's just an improbable setting made to allow Suzaku to display his one man army show (here's the answer )

Well, a mecha show still remains a mecha show gbye military logic...
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Old 2008-04-24, 12:21   Link #246
CooKie D.
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Speaking of Knightmare Frames... Anybody think there's gonna be a "Galahad" KMF? After all he's the "greatest knight of all" in Arthurian legend... If there is one wonder who's gonna pilot it?
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Old 2008-04-24, 12:23   Link #247
ashlay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CooKie D. View Post
Speaking of Knightmare Frames... Anybody think there's gonna be a "Galahad" KMF? After all he's the "greatest knight of all" in Arthurian legend... If there is one wonder who's gonna pilot it?
meh, maybe it can be a replacement for the lancelot once Rollo rips all it's body parts off and throws it into a ditch.
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Old 2008-04-24, 13:58   Link #248
JMvS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CooKie D. View Post
Speaking of Knightmare Frames... Anybody think there's gonna be a "Galahad" KMF? After all he's the "greatest knight of all" in Arthurian legend... If there is one wonder who's gonna pilot it?
Maybe Knight of One?
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Old 2008-04-24, 14:13   Link #249
Dann of Thursday
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I've been expecting a Galahad for a long time and I could see the Knight of One having it.
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Old 2008-04-24, 22:43   Link #250
CooKie D.
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I thought the Black Knights would get/steal it, so far they're outclassed by Brittania in terms of key units and aces, so why not level the field a bit?

Plus there's no mention of the Gawain, I miss that unit
Now that the Gurren's gonna get a float unit I think the Gawain and Gurren make an awesome long range + close range combination... Gawain sweeps from afar with those hadron cannons while being covered by the Gurren by taking out units that close in... sweet


Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlay View Post
meh, maybe it can be a replacement for the lancelot once Rollo rips all it's body parts off and throws it into a ditch.
lol, GSD parallel (Freedom thrashed -> get Strike Freedom!)
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Old 2008-04-24, 22:52   Link #251
Dann of Thursday
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The Gawain is gone for all intents and purposes. He was due for a new one anyway since he'll need to compete with the Knights.

I'd rather they not have to keep stealing units from the Britannians. Let Lakshata come up with something good on her own.
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Old 2008-04-24, 22:55   Link #252
KrimzonStriker
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Ah Gawain, how I miss thee... ;_;
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Old 2008-04-24, 23:04   Link #253
Dann of Thursday
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Hopefully he'll get a better one.
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Old 2008-04-24, 23:10   Link #254
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Or maybe they salvaged it from the ocean floor and upgraded it like with all the other Order Mech's?
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Old 2008-04-24, 23:14   Link #255
Dann of Thursday
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It was sinking pretty good and there is still the idea that the water pressure would have gotton to it eventually. If they did somehow get it, it would be pretty busted up. Besides, in comparison to what we have to deal with now the Gawain may not be able to handle things.
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Old 2008-04-24, 23:18   Link #256
KrimzonStriker
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But all indications from the previews said they weren't going to turn Lelouch into the Athurn to Suzaku's Kira in terms of piloting skills... Gawain suited him so well as a command type Knightmare... and plus, you know how skeptical I am of that whole bit by Yukana about how the water pressure crushed C.C and everything, I still think that with the reemergence of Orange-kun we'll get the full story about what happened down there....>_>
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Old 2008-04-24, 23:20   Link #257
Dann of Thursday
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It could be a Knightmare similar to it, but not the same. I honestly want a new one. The Gawain was good, but unless they gave it some upgrades I can't see it being too helpful.

And Jeremiah was remodeled using the Code R (another R term) which could grant him certain kinds of healing abilities.
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Old 2008-04-24, 23:22   Link #258
KrimzonStriker
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Could, lot's of coulds Dann, we need an actual demonstration in order for that to actually be the answer. Like I said, when he shows up is when I think we'll get the full picture of what actually happened >_>
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Old 2008-04-24, 23:50   Link #259
CooKie D.
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Well, there were complaints last season about how the Gawain was so overpowered compared to other KMFs, perhaps with the current generation that won't be the case? One of its major advantages was it could fly, but now lots of other KMFs can too...

And yes upgrades would be nice, as long as they don't make it too powerful again
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Old 2008-04-24, 23:53   Link #260
Dann of Thursday
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It had the Hadron Cannons and the Druid System. We now have a Knightmare with four Hadron cannons and the Float system is surely not unique anymore. How would you upgrade it anyway?
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