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Old 2008-09-11, 15:26   Link #1821
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I fail to see how they'd have gotten off the island WITHOUT the Shinkirou. Lancelot was trashed, and Anya had already gotten the f' out of Dodge.
They had a month, and since no one even saw them coming, which the Shinkiro would have signaled instantly, I think they used more discrete methods.
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Old 2008-09-11, 15:26   Link #1822
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
There was the Mordred. Which I'm sure, since Anya was confused as hell, Suzaku or C.C. piloted or something.
Anya left, and since she went to Schneizel and not to Pendragon, I think we can safely say she didn't help Lelouch, Suzaku, and C.C. out of Kaminejima.
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Old 2008-09-11, 15:27   Link #1823
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
They had a month, and since no one even saw them coming, which the Shinkiro would have signaled instantly, I think they used more discrete methods.
What's more discreet than a Knightmare Frame underwater? Seriously, I don't think Lelouch blew it up. Any number of things could've caused that explosion, and if you ask me, that explosion looked much too large to have been caused by a single Knightmare Frame.
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Old 2008-09-11, 15:30   Link #1824
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Yes, over his head: he was shaken up when Suzaku's Live Geass activated and Lancelot struck--he was surprised, and wondered if it was Lancelot or Suzaku's abilities. He lost his cool. And in the end, he got cocky and said that Suzaku underestimated him--only for Galahad to get bisected. I'm quite aware of how Bismarck did before Suzaku's Geass Command activated. And technically, they weren't on equal footing until the Geass Command activated--remember, Bismarck knew what his future moves would be. Without that Geass, it would've been a different fight.
You would be wrong here. Bismarck's Geass is what tipped it into an equal fight. Suzaku had a better mech, Bismarck had precognition. Equal. When the "Live" Geass activated, Suzaku tipped the scale into his favor and he had 100% victory rate at that point.
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Old 2008-09-11, 15:32   Link #1825
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
You would be wrong here. Bismarck's Geass is what tipped it into an equal fight. Suzaku had a better mech, Bismarck had precognition. Equal. When the "Live" Geass activated, Suzaku tipped the scale into his favor and he had 100% victory rate at that point.
Whatever. Wasn't even my point in the first place, I was talking about Bismarck's reactions, not his skill as a pilot. He lost his cool when the Live Geass Command activated (thus, wondering if he was over his head) and grew overconfident when Suzaku did his kamikaze charge at Galahad, only to get cut in half.
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Old 2008-09-11, 15:40   Link #1826
Orga777
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Whatever. Wasn't even my point in the first place, I was talking about Bismarck's reactions, not his skill as a pilot. He lost his cool when the Live Geass Command activated (thus, wondering if he was over his head) and grew overconfident when Suzaku did his kamikaze charge at Galahad, only to get cut in half.
That wasn't overconfidence though. He didn't think a head-on attack would be a problem here. He is a veteran pilot with a lot of skill and he had a Super Sword pretty much. He was able to fight Suzaku back before and he didn't think he would cut through him like butter.

(And this fight is now my favorite in teh series so far. Short, but oh so sweet...)
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Old 2008-09-11, 15:43   Link #1827
Rising Dragon
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That wasn't overconfidence though. He didn't think a head-on attack would be a problem here. He is a veteran pilot with a lot of skill and he had a Super Sword pretty much. He was able to fight Suzaku back before and he didn't think he would cut through him like butter.

(And this fight is now my favorite in teh series so far. Short, but oh so sweet...)
Which is why I said overconfidence and not sheer arrogance. Bismarck was the Knight of One for a reason, after all, but he freaked out when the Live Geass Command activated and he knew something was up. And then suddenly he was like "Head on? Psh," and did a fancy spinning wind-up for a swing. That's overconfidence. Granted, he had the skills to back it up, but you'd think he'd be a little more cautious when he figured something was off.

And yes, it was an excellent fight.
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Old 2008-09-11, 15:44   Link #1828
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(And this fight is now my favorite in teh series so far. Short, but oh so sweet...)
Would have been better if they'd bothered to do something with Dorothea and Monica.
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Old 2008-09-11, 15:48   Link #1829
Orga777
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Would have been better if they'd bothered to do something with Dorothea and Monica.
Those two scrubs weren't important. it was Bismarck that stole the show and rightfully so.

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Which is why I said overconfidence and not sheer arrogance. Bismarck was the Knight of One for a reason, after all, but he freaked out when the Live Geass Command activated and he knew something was up. And then suddenly he was like "Head on? Psh," and did a fancy spinning wind-up for a swing. That's overconfidence. Granted, he had the skills to back it up, but you'd think he'd be a little more cautious when he figured something was off.
Okay, I understand what you mean now.
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Old 2008-09-11, 15:50   Link #1830
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Well, if Taniguchi hadn't given us the old bait and lied to us, Informed Ability, about Monica and Dorothea's skills (where the fuck was the ferocity? and the bloody heroism?), and had given them DECENT machines instead of the second-worst Frames in the entire show next to the Gun Rus, things would have been better. Bismarck didn't do that much, either.
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Old 2008-09-11, 15:53   Link #1831
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Well, if Taniguchi hadn't given us the old bait and lied to us, Informed Ability, about Monica and Dorothea's skills (where the fuck was the ferocity? and the bloody heroism?), and had given them DECENT machines instead of the second-worst Frames in the entire show next to the Gun Rus, things would have been better. Bismarck didn't do that much, either.
Bismarck fought Albion on equal footing the entire fight (until Suzaku's "Live Geass" went off anyway...) Sure he had Geass, but that evened out Suzaku's mecha capabilities. And at least he got a hit off and was able to get a lot of parries...

As for Taniguchi giving us stuff about the others... well, I think he just does that for the lulz now.
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Old 2008-09-11, 15:54   Link #1832
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He...flung the Albion about twice, once with Harkens and once with a clash, not doing even cosmetic damage, had a little parry show and then got himself killed. For someone who was touted to be a 'god' inside a Frame, he wasn't very impressive.
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Old 2008-09-11, 16:20   Link #1833
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
He...flung the Albion about twice, once with Harkens and once with a clash, not doing even cosmetic damage, had a little parry show and then got himself killed. For someone who was touted to be a 'god' inside a Frame, he wasn't very impressive.
More impressive than your mooks with names.

And really, he was up against Suzaku in freaking Albion. The fact he lived longer than one minute of fight time is a testament to his skill. And damn, he practically beat the tar out of Xing-Ke in Episode 17.
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Old 2008-09-11, 16:25   Link #1834
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More impressive than your mooks with names.

And really, he was up against Suzaku in freaking Albion. The fact he lived longer than one minute of fight time is a testament to his skill. And damn, he practically beat the tar out of Xing-Ke in Episode 17.
Monica and Dorothea would have been far more impressive if Taniguchi had done something with them.

And there are mooks who have lived longer than Bismarck has. And oh, sure, he beat the crap out of Xingke, but Luciano tossed a damn ship at the Chinese fleet.

But, really, Bismarck wasn't a poor pilot...I just expected much more.
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Old 2008-09-11, 16:30   Link #1835
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Monica and Dorothea would have been far more impressive if Taniguchi had done something with them.
Suuuure.
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And there are mooks who have lived longer than Bismarck has. And oh, sure, he beat the crap out of Xingke, but Luciano tossed a damn ship at the Chinese fleet.
Because Luciano is awesome!

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But, really, Bismarck wasn't a poor pilot...I just expected much more.
I really didn't (since, you know, it was Albion and all that...) he actually exceeded my expectations in that fight. Also, go back and check, most one on one fights don't last much longer than that at all. Most are actually less. After Gino and the mooks () were defeated, it was two minutes of one on one action.
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Old 2008-09-11, 19:15   Link #1836
Nvis
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Lelouch's place isn't on the battlefield. He has Suzaku for that.

Er, C.C. pilots a pink Lancelot, and have you forgotten the Sutherland Sieg?
Pink Lancelot would be nice, and I meant Lloyd returning the Siegfried to its original form.
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Old 2008-09-11, 19:17   Link #1837
morbosfist
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If Lloyd returned the Siegfried to its original form, the war would be over. Period. The Siegfried was the most hax mech this series ever introduced, and it needed to be defanged so it could fight believably.
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Old 2008-09-12, 09:28   Link #1838
ZeroSama
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Well, if Taniguchi hadn't given us the old bait and lied to us, Informed Ability, about Monica and Dorothea's skills (where the fuck was the ferocity? and the bloody heroism?), and had given them DECENT machines instead of the second-worst Frames in the entire show next to the Gun Rus, things would have been better. Bismarck didn't do that much, either.
We don't know they were in Sutherlands. All we see is the KoO with a bunch of Sutherlands behind him, it doesn't mean their in them. Also it mentioned that the KoR's were leading their own teams into combat, this might simply of been his team.

I mean did you see Ginos' Tristain in the background in that scene? No it wasn't there we didn't see it because of the camera angle chosen.

I think they deliberately did it so they didn't have to spend time and money too make them new mechs just to die in 3 secs. We don't know what they piloted, we never seen the mechs they piloted from the outside except when they turned into pretty fireworks.


Also why is it so hard to except they died so quickly, Ace or not? Just because your an Ace it doesn't make you immune to death or it allows you to escape from a guaranteed death in a hopeless situation, just like in reality.

Really its just like Victory Gundam it doesn't matter if your an ace or named character you don't get any plot armor.
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Old 2008-09-12, 09:31   Link #1839
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Actually, there was a Gloucester behind the Galahad as well. Just one Gloucester, though.
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Old 2008-09-12, 09:36   Link #1840
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Uh...ZeroSama, I recommend you watch the scene again. Barring the one Gloucester, which, due to the placement and angle, may belong to Dorothea, there are nothing but Sutherlands behind the Galahad. I think that makes it clear.
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