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Old 2007-01-22, 14:34   Link #121
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss rave View Post
Any idea when?

In 315 Kakashi said Naruto is to be training with 1000 clones at all times.
No, In fact was Naruto has been seen training with as little as 11 clones when he was starting the waterfall training.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik
When You talk about someone training time you don’t begin to subtract the Hours he took to rest to come up with a figure, You only count the days and that’s it. Resting and eating and Taking a dump is part of training, so its been said.

For Instance, You don’t say that Naruto learned the rasengan in some 2 weeks opposite to the whole month he took to learn it, just because in that time spam he rested.

Or that Yondaime didn’t really took 3 Years to Develop the rasengan, as so other Example.

And I don’t recall right now Kakshi mentioning Numbers, but in fact the need of Yamato to keep Kyuby on check for Naruto to create Clones to train is something bigger than 200 clones, in this case 1000 clones.

EDIT: Kakashi indeed said it was 1000 clones, Chapter 315 page 1 and page 09:

"Your Taju Kage Bushin, that’s how we are going to do this in a short amount of time"

"While we train you are to have at least 1000 clones training with you at all times"
Well yeah, people say that because like you said, it's intuitive that you don't take it literally. Like if someone says they worked one week then you usually take it to mean that they worked a normal 40 hrs. However, if you are going to calculate the experience mathematically like you and others did then you probably shouldn't use a 24 hr day to calculate the time. My job doesn't pay me for 7 days/168hrs work (though I definitely wouldn't have a problem with it if they did )

As for Kakashi's quote, well there are other quotes contradicting it. The first one is the one I gave as an example to Rave, the second one I am actually going to post, just to make it clear where I got the statement from. Maybe it's a translation error. But you can't say that Naruto trained with 1000 bunshin the entire period.


Last edited by Sabaku Kyu; 2007-01-22 at 14:52.
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Old 2007-01-22, 14:51   Link #122
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
No, In fact was Naruto has been seen training as little as 11 clones when was starting the waterfall training.
Huh? In the waterfall trying to cut it he was using a lot of clones.


Quote:
Well yeah, people say that because like you said, it's intuitive that you don't take it literally. Like if someone says they worked one week then you usually take it to mean that they worked a normal 40 hrs. However, if you are going to calculate the experience mathematically like you and others did then you probably shouldn't use a 24 hr day to calculate the time. My job doesn't pay me for 7 days/168hrs work (though I definitely wouldn't have a problem with it if they did )
Note that Kakashi in that chapter Say that in 1 day he has gained 4,800 of experince using 200 clones, meaning he is looking at the trainnig day equatoion as a 24 hours thing.

As I didnt took away hours from the 24 hours in a day, rather Ive been using Days instead, because, Yeah The best way to count the amount of training its by counting the complete day.


Quote:
As for Kakashi's quote, well there are other quotes contradicting it. The first one is the one I gave as an example to Rave, the second one I am actually going to post. Maybe it's a translation error. But you can't say that Naruto trained with 1000 bunshin the entire period.
Hunter already explained, there is no contradiction, rather a change of plan in the course of the training, so with the New Numbers lets do the amount of training:

2 or so Days training with more than 1000 clones, Total amount of hours 48 Hours, 48 Hours multiplied by 1000 is 48000, so Total amount of time training 5 1/2 Years. (lets say 6 Years because we dont know in what moment he was using more than 1000)

When HE begun to train with 200 Clones, its 6 days multiplied by 200 = 3 Years.

Therefore, Naruto has been training for around 9 Years actually, sorry for my earlier mistake.
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Old 2007-01-22, 15:10   Link #123
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Huh? In the waterfall trying to cut it he was using a lot of clones.
When he starts out in chapter 319, he's only using 11 clones on the waterfall and complains to Kakashi that he should be using more bunshin. Maybe everytime Naruto entered a new of phase of his training, he cut back on the amount of KB and then gradually increased again.


Quote:
Note that Kakashi in that chapter Say that in 1 day he has gained 4,800 of experince using 200 clones, meaning he is looking at the trainnig day equatoion as a 24 hours thing. As I didnt took away hours from the 24 hours in a day, rather Ive been using Days instead, because, Yeah The best way to count the amount of training its by counting the complete day.
Yeah, I guess you're right on this one. To me, it doesn't seem to make sense to tally up the total amount of hours like that except as a matter of convenience.


Quote:
Hunter already explained, there is no contradiction, rather a change of plan in the course of the training, so with the New Numbers lets do the amount of training:

2 or so Days training with more than 1000 clones, Total amount of hours 48 Hours, 48 Hours multiplied by 1000 is 48000, so Total amount of time training 5 1/2 Years. (lets say 6 Years because we dont know in what moment he was using more than 1000)

When HE begun to train with 200 Clones, its 6 days multiplied by 200 = 3 Years.

Therefore, Naruto has been training for around 9 Years actually, sorry for my earlier mistake.
That seems likes as good an answer as any. I wonder how more much training he will need to do to complete the Wind Rasengan? He's already got the shaping and combining elemental chakra part down, yet it's only 50% complete. What's there left to do? Seems like just a matter of increasing the amount of chakra that's put into the attack.
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Old 2007-01-22, 15:12   Link #124
chuckcsf
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Ok so lets put this to rest... The main point is that Naruto completed years worth of training in about a week. If he trains like this for a whole year, he would be like training for 20,000 years!

Ok now, did all that training make him a lot quicker and faster? Or with that experience can he make an even better sexy nu jutsu like after three years of training with Jaraiya?
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Old 2007-01-22, 15:16   Link #125
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
When he starts out in chapter 319, he's only using 11 clones on the waterfall and complains to Kakashi that he should be using more bunshin. Maybe everytime Naruto entered a new of phase of his training, he cut back on the amount of KB and then gradually increased again.
well, I guess in that part, he already learned how to Correctly cut things wiht his Chakra, So Cutting a waterfall should had been done by using more less clones I guess, maybe the need of using more clones could had to more wiht the masss of the water than to gain experinece.

Quote:
That seems likes as good an answer as any. I wonder how more much training he will need to do to complete the Wind Rasengan? He's already got the shaping and combining elemental chakra part down, yet it's only 50% complete. What's there left to do? Seems like just a matter of increasing the amount of chakra that's put into the attack.
3 more Years In Clone years maybe?

And I don’t think is really a amount of Chakra issue, rather an Issue of Shaping and other technical stuffs.

I’ve been thinking That Naruto has wasted enough Chakra in this past day to power an Small country


Quote:
Ok now, did all that training make him a lot quicker and faster? Or with that experience can he make an even better sexy nu jutsu like after three years of training with Jaraiya?
Hmm, He already has a new version of Sexy no Jutsu, one which is way superior to the Original, I guess Jiraiya training wasnt a waste after all.


EDIT: Just read Chapter 338, and the only thing I got to say is that I don’t think that were normal cigarettes Shikamaru was smoking, to be able to see Asumas spirits in the smoke of the cigar...yah, I have heard of a couple of special cigarettes that can help you see those kind of stuffs.
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Last edited by Rurik; 2007-01-22 at 15:46.
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Old 2007-01-22, 16:41   Link #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
When he starts out in chapter 319, he's only using 11 clones on the waterfall and complains to Kakashi that he should be using more bunshin. Maybe everytime Naruto entered a new of phase of his training, he cut back on the amount of KB and then gradually increased again.
I thought at that time the limitation was forced by Yamato's state rather than Naruto's state. Naruto seemed to be always ready to use that 1000+ clones regardless of the state of the training, and I thought he should be, considering the source of the chakra was Kyuubi.
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Old 2007-01-22, 16:52   Link #127
Mr. Johnny 5
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Hahah if he really trained for more then 10 years (which is insane) he should normally be atleast 10x stronger then Sasuke...because if Naruto trained normal he'd catch up anyway but might remain a few steps behind...

And after every mission...if Naruto trains like this....then within 100 chapters he'd be all powerfull and no one would be able to defeat him..

And because of this training....his own chakra pool should've doubled atleast!

So Naruto's own chakra should be 8-10x more then Kakashi's..
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Old 2007-01-22, 17:04   Link #128
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Hahah if he really trained for more then 10 years (which is insane) he should normally be atleast 10x stronger then Sasuke...because if Naruto trained normal he'd catch up anyway but might remain a few steps behind...

And after every mission...if Naruto trains like this....then within 100 chapters he'd be all powerfull and no one would be able to defeat him..
Then, Sasuke fanatics and Naruto haters need to put pressure on Kishi to get rid of Yamato asap.
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Old 2007-01-22, 17:17   Link #129
Mr. Johnny 5
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True....but i doubt Yamato will die anytime soon...besides....Jiraiya is also good at creating anti-kyuubi measures..
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Old 2007-01-22, 17:25   Link #130
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
True....but i doubt Yamato will die anytime soon...besides....Jiraiya is also good at creating anti-kyuubi measures..
Having anti-kyuubi strength does not seem to be a big deal (as there are at least three people that can achieve that, and most probably a few times more than that in reality), controlling and taking advantage of Kyuubi is the main issue in Naruto's training. And, the only person to achieve that seems to be Yamato at the moment - so it is a rarity in that world.
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Old 2007-01-22, 18:14   Link #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Having anti-kyuubi strength does not seem to be a big deal (as there are at least three people that can achieve that, and most probably a few times more than that in reality), controlling and taking advantage of Kyuubi is the main issue in Naruto's training. And, the only person to achieve that seems to be Yamato at the moment - so it is a rarity in that world.
The whole point of the training is for Naruto to stop using Kyuubi's strength. Yamato is there to supress the Kyuubi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Yeah i think Naruto will become the perfect fighter....1 on 1 or 1 on (numerous enemies...like the Sannin)

I think that if Naruto trained for soo long....it should be natural that he can do normal rasengan with 1 hand...

(offtopic: btw what anime is that Xellos? she looks like Ichijou from School Rumble..
Spoiler:
Sorry no idea she is if she isn't Ichijou.


I just thought of another use of the Shadow Clone.

Since he can transform himself into looking like other people. He can have 100 shadow clones and all will look different. He can then get 100 girls and none of them will it is one guy.
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Old 2007-01-22, 18:41   Link #132
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
The whole point of the training is for Naruto to stop using Kyuubi's strength. Yamato is there to supress the Kyuubi.
No, actually, the whole point of the training method is to make efficient use of Kyuubi's strength. Otherwise, with only 2 times the chakra of Kakashi, Naruto cannot keep using 1000 clones for a few days. Yamato's duty is to suppress Kyuubi only when Kyuubi's power overwhelms Naruto, otherwise, he has to let Kyuubi chakra flow within Naruto.
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Old 2007-01-22, 20:27   Link #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
No, actually, the whole point of the training method is to make efficient use of Kyuubi's strength. Otherwise, with only 2 times the chakra of Kakashi, Naruto cannot keep using 1000 clones for a few days. Yamato's duty is to suppress Kyuubi only when Kyuubi's power overwhelms Naruto, otherwise, he has to let Kyuubi chakra flow within Naruto.
Very well said.
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Old 2007-01-22, 20:42   Link #134
kikko_s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Just read Chapter 338, and the only thing I got to say is that I donít think that were normal cigarettes Shikamaru was smoking, to be able to see Asumas spirits in the smoke of the cigar...yah, I have heard of a couple of special cigarettes that can help you see those kind of stuffs.
I was thinking the exact same thing when I saw the RAW.
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Old 2007-01-22, 20:49   Link #135
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
No, actually, the whole point of the training method is to make efficient use of Kyuubi's strength. Otherwise, with only 2 times the chakra of Kakashi, Naruto cannot keep using 1000 clones for a few days. Yamato's duty is to suppress Kyuubi only when Kyuubi's power overwhelms Naruto, otherwise, he has to let Kyuubi chakra flow within Naruto.
I will have to check but i could have swore that the training was for Naruto to stop relying on the Kyuubi's strenght and more on his own.
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Old 2007-01-22, 21:07   Link #136
Luminion Lancer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss rave View Post
Reason why Yamato just has to go.
-I have no qualms about this. Then again Yamato is the only ninja in the series to use Mokuton (other than Shodaime Hokage of course).

Quote:
Originally Posted by miss rave View Post
Doubtful. When he completes the thing he might surpass Kakashi, not jus with 50% of it done. Then again if he was it wouldn't be the first time Kish annoyed me ^^.
-Aww come on, don't say that miss rave-chan ^_^. Look at it this way: the stronger Naruto gets, the better the final clash between him and Sasuke will be. I say "Bring on the popcorn and watch!" .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
I will have to check but i could have swore that the training was for Naruto to stop relying on the Kyuubi's strenght and more on his own.
-Relying more on his own abilities yes, but not to go so far as to stop using it entirely. Think of the whole process as more about creating alternative options than anything else.

-Now I have a thought. Naruto's own chakra reserves are always merging together with that of the Kyuubi correct? And he has literally time jumped at least a decade of training in mere days right? Could that have also been the case with the chakra merger, expanding it for that same amount equivalent? I cannot confirm this but I want to know what you guys think...
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Last edited by Luminion Lancer; 2007-01-22 at 23:59.
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Old 2007-01-22, 22:24   Link #137
tramadrama
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With all of Naruto's training which could amount into more than a decade at this point in the story, all of that means squat if his first attack is KB. I need to see a roundhouse kick or at least some other type of taijutsu to even be remotely satisfied. But one thing I have a feeling about is this fight is going to show off Naruto's newfound burst of speed. I bet he's up in speed with Lee and Sasuke now.

When you actually stop and think about this whole KB technique, Naruto learned the forbidden technique which uses actual clones. It makes you wonder if it's a forbidden technique because of what Naruto has done with this. I mean, this is all too good to be true, to be able to train for that amount of years in a short amount of days. I believe that if there's a price to pay in this, it will be that Naruto will age quicker than normal, meaning that he may eventually die due to the constant use of KB.

If this logic is correct, Naruto already died in the anime, but they just don't know it yet.
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Old 2007-01-22, 22:54   Link #138
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I don't think it's forbidden in the sense that it is that dangerous to the user. The only thing I can think of is because it splits the user's chakra. With the chakra bank that Naruto has, I don't think that's an issue. It may be that KB is a secret jutsu to Konoha and that's why they keep such a tight leash on it.
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Old 2007-01-23, 02:44   Link #139
AkatsukisApprentice
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I bet we see a flashback for both AK members this chapter...we really need some history for each character like they done for the others...otherwise it would be pretty lame to just finish them off and go on to the next one.
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Old 2007-01-23, 04:28   Link #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
(offtopic: btw what anime is that Xellos? she looks like Ichijou from School Rumble
It's Asa from Shuffle!
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