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Old 2007-05-16, 21:10   Link #101
monir
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That didn't take long, now did it? Thank you a whole bunch, Ureshii!! Thread moved.
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Old 2007-05-16, 21:40   Link #102
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Yeah it's subbed. I really liked this first episode, I look forward to seeing how it develops.
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Old 2007-05-17, 03:49   Link #103
te2rx
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Lightbulb

sakugasm. And finally the fansub is out and I totally snapped on the wikipedia article.

I think one of the most interesting design decisions of Dennou Coil is how they made the virtual world (almost) strictly organic and tangible, like a videogame environment as opposed to a more computery one. When a pet runs away, it runs away and you can't just "recall" or "reset" him. You have to go out and find him for real. When the ailing computer virus runs away, it leaves behind an evaporating trail of "Dennou Substance", and then Daisuke tracks the trail with his nose. And then to hack into the lost space of Daikoku City, Fumie uses a can of "bug" spray (ho ho)... all the software tools are actually tangible tools that exist in virtual 3D space, the metatags are actually paper tags, etc.. and then to delete any of it, you have to attack it with a virtual weapon (e.g. kyuu-chan's beam weapons). Also Fumie's inventory system, a fanny pack with seemingly endless space.... if that's not game-esque I don't know what is. Daisuke falling into the obsolete space looked like a Second Life construction area... panels with tile textures slapped on just floating around.

There are a few unanswered questions concerning the nature of the Augmented Reality world of Daikoku City though... mainly who makes the laws/regulations and who runs Search/Searchmaton (government or business?) -- and subsequently to what degree are the children's possessions and pets "illegal"? What is a metabug? Does it have official monetary value or is it an underground currency? Does it represent a computer/server resource of some kind? (the virus powered up by consuming it)

Dennou Coil doesn't seem like much at first, but I realized through writing the wiki article how much the setting gives me to chew on and nerd out on -- all that on top of the animation. Dennou Coil <3

edit: NoSanninWa, that's what I want to know too!

Last edited by te2rx; 2007-05-17 at 05:19.
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Old 2007-05-17, 05:09   Link #104
NoSanninWa
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Denno is apparently a very important word in this show. I hope that someone can tell me exactly what it means. Computer? Cyber? Please tell me as much about this word as you can so that I can better understand all the context when it is used.
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Old 2007-05-17, 05:34   Link #105
Nightengale
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Dennou literally translates to "electric brain" in Japanese, but within an outdated context, it means "computer".

It's like how what wao said about "dian nou" in Chinese kanji is the word for computers, non archaic, just literal.

As for what it actually is within the universe of Coil...well, that we don't know for sure.
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Old 2007-05-17, 06:03   Link #106
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Part of our (ureshii's) problem with translating dennou is the fact that none of the terms we're attempting to substitute are particularly well defined, even in English. Ask a group of average people what a computer is, and you'll get some very varied answers.

"Cyber" worked best for us because it associates the everyday objects you see in the show with the virtual reality that they're living in. It seemed like the best route.

And I've been really happy about the series. Combining a child's naiveté and view of the world with cutting edge (at least to us) technology has so much potential. Meeting the other Yuko should prove interesting...
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Old 2007-05-17, 09:55   Link #107
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I like how the first episode just throws everything at you, as if you're apart of this world --- together with Tsuneyoshi Saito's fantasy style music that plays a huge role. Very good episode, i hope it keeps up on this level.

Oh, and need more of the pony-tail girl near the start. She's wonderful.
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Old 2007-05-17, 18:43   Link #108
orion
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
I like how the first episode just throws everything at you, as if you're apart of this world --- together with Tsuneyoshi Saito's fantasy style music that plays a huge role. Very good episode, i hope it keeps up on this level.

Oh, and need more of the pony-tail girl near the start. She's wonderful.
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-05-17, 18:47   Link #109
MrProphet
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There is a classic anime Akihabara Dennou Gumi. The traditional translation is "Cyber Team in Akihabara". So, yeah, "cyber" it is.
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Old 2007-05-18, 04:41   Link #110
jiru-kun
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as far as I could understand, in this anime "denno" is used as a prefix for all the words related to the "space", i.e. the virtual reality you can see with glasses on. If I think about the prefix that best expresses this concept in english, I think about "cyber". This word is NOT a prefix (nor is used alone) in standard japanese, and comes from chinese (to say "computer" in japanese, you say "computer" lol).
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Old 2007-05-18, 15:25   Link #111
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I hope they explain why the kids were afraid of the Kyuu's and Satchii, since it seems their weapons only affect cyber/virtual beings. First thing that comes to mind is that the tools they're using are illegal.

Other than that, I was all smiles throughout the first episode, espcially how certain concepts just "click", giving you that, "Ah ha, that's pretty neat!" feeling. With this emphasis on augmented reality, it walks a fine line between building a concrete world, and being inconsistent for the sake of being artsy. I hope it doesn't degrade into the latter, as a lot of Japanese shows tend to do so.
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Old 2007-05-18, 16:49   Link #112
orion
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Maybe if they are hit by Kyuu-chan or Satchi they lose there surfing priviledges or have to pay a hefty fine.
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Old 2007-05-18, 17:16   Link #113
Blue_Mage
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Fumie did say they'd get in trouble if they were shot by the Kyuu-chans.
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Old 2007-05-18, 17:24   Link #114
7Th
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Fumie did say they'd get in trouble if they were shot by the Kyuu-chans.
It probably means it registers them as those involved in illegal activities.
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Old 2007-05-18, 21:02   Link #115
Asai
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I just watched the first ep and was quite pleased with it. It's different. I like different. I verily look forward to seeing how this series goes. ^^
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Old 2007-05-18, 23:54   Link #116
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Well. Wow.

Everything wins about this episode. What I liked was seeing all these new concepts, in the setting's technology, come to life as they were used. The auto-fixing wall (which OMG so completely made sense), Kyuu-chan's reformat run, the cyber fishing rod, Oyaji, "hand"phone and so on. I'll say this: All of them were really characters on their own.

And that's saying a lot about the human characters. Fleshing out of Fumie and Yuko was skilfully conveyed in animation. They not only told us through dialogue what the characters were like, they showed it in animation. In the first exchange between Fumie and Yuko, we got to know about Fumie's adorable character in her taking the offensive stance, then later, how she cunningly got took the chance to get back her 200 meta. Seeing her face at that moment when she was claiming back the metas (screenshot) was awesome. Yuko sitting dejected at the wall, augmented by her memories, fleshed-out her relationship with Densuke and told us why it was so important to her. It's only the first episode, but I feel like I know loads about Fumie and Yuko.

Some random thoughts about the technology thus far:
  • (1) If I may comment on it, it's interesting how the location in cyberspace seems to follow with locations in Yuko's world, as in, a different location in the real world goes to a different location in the cyberworld, as we saw when Yuko changed the positions of the "portal." Implications: One can get lost in the cyberworld.

  • (2) The black virus blob, Densuke, and Oyaji were very cute. I'm impressed that what could have been passed off as mere tools were given distinct, more than that, fun and adorable characters. It's just wrong, although admittedly amusing, to see beads of sweat on a cyberbeing; and seeing Densuke try a bend over was lolable (looks like it's time to get him off those fattening bits). However, Oyaji wins for me, if only just because of his exposed butt. I'm with wao in wanting an Oyaji plushie.

  • (3) I like how this technology interacts with organic substance. Although Yuko could only see Densuke once she put on the glasses, she could then pick it up and even feel it lick her. Seriously, I need to know how it works. Do the glasses interface with sensory nerves to emulate substance and solidity? Is Densuke real?

  • (4) This begs Matrix-like questions about their surroundings. If so much is combined with technology that can only be seen behind special glasses, how much of it is real? What even is the definition of real, now?

There's an amazing concept in the setting of this show, and it opens up a world of possibilities yet unexplored in any anime I've watched. I think such effort put into making the debut episode work so well shows its creators' commitment to making the rest of the show a winner. It clearly shows what such a concept can achieve, as well. I wouldn't say it's the best yet, but this one is clearly a keeper.

(Writing this post, I suddenly thought of Tron, which computer gamers should remember fondly.)
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Old 2007-05-19, 00:23   Link #117
outlaw97
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Originally Posted by Lost View Post
[*](3) I like how this technology interacts with organic substance. Although Yuko could only see Densuke once she put on the glasses, she could then pick it up and even feel it lick her. Seriously, I need to know how it works. Do the glasses interface with sensory nerves to emulate substance and solidity? Is Densuke real?

remember fondly.)
I don't think it interacts with the real world at all in the physical sense. Sure, you saw Yuko pick Densuke up, but it's all perceptual. Think of it as a very very advanced GUI interface.

The way I see it, you have the object, Densuke, with a defined height, weight, width. The glasses would relay information on the position of Yuko's hands, such that if her hands were in position x, y, and z, the animation of Densuke will change such that it's being lifted, and follow the changing positions of Yuko's hands. If her hands were to say, be too close together, Densuke would go into his "being squeezed" animation set (to put it in technical terms). The software could also be advanced enough to differentiate between a user and an object, which would explain why Yuko can pick Densuke up, but a backpack falls through him.

In regards to the licking, I'm no psychologist, but I think kids are able to accept cyberspace more readily than older people. So, while a child may not physically feel the dog licking them, they would react as if it WERE real.

What's amazing is that we have the ability to pull this off already, if only on a very crude level. I believe there have been some games that already take advantage of GPS (Tapwave Zodiac if I recall). Cellphone data connections are also a lot faster now, thanks to 3G and EVDO. So combine GPS with a constant internet connection, and you can already juxtapose Internet stuff with the real world. The only thing holding us back is the interface, aka the glasses.
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Old 2007-05-19, 03:46   Link #118
te2rx
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outlaw97: I've assumed that's how it works also. Picking up a virtual dog and letting him lick your face would require some level of active "make believe" your part. How the kids quickly accept that is very cool. Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARQuake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost
(4) This begs Matrix-like questions about their surroundings. If so much is combined with technology that can only be seen behind special glasses, how much of it is real? What even is the definition of real, now?
I actually hope the show doesn't go into that direction. Blurring the lines between "real" and "virtual" (or fantasy, dreams, subjectivity etc.) is a huge cliché in this kind of sci-fi and in "brainy" anime in general. Dennou Coil in that respect has so far kept fantasy and reality clearly defined and separate. All someone needs to do is lift their Dennou Eyeglasses to make sure. But what's fascinating about Dennou Coil is despite the intangibility of the virtual world, things like virtual pets still resonate highly with and hold great importance to the protagonists. I'm sure they are well aware of the fact that their pets are mere simulated illusions. The protagonists seem to hold the fabricated reality behind the Dennou glasses and objective reality with almost equal weight. In other words I don't see the relevance of a question like "What is reality?" in Dennou Coil. I think Dennou Coil will focus more on the effects of the emerging virtual world on human interaction (e.g. kids playing on the street). It'll be interesting to see if it goes into its effects on familial relationships and things like that. We haven't seen any adult or parent characters in the show yet.

Last edited by te2rx; 2007-05-19 at 04:18.
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Old 2007-05-19, 06:19   Link #119
jiru-kun
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Originally Posted by outlaw97 View Post

The way I see it, you have the object, Densuke, with a defined height, weight, width. The glasses would relay information on the position of Yuko's hands, such that if her hands were in position x, y, and z, the animation of Densuke will change such that it's being lifted, and follow the changing positions of Yuko's hands. If her hands were to say, be too close together, Densuke would go into his "being squeezed" animation set (to put it in technical terms). The software could also be advanced enough to differentiate between a user and an object, which would explain why Yuko can pick Densuke up, but a backpack falls through him.
well... it's just my imagination, but i don't think this "virtual" world is just drawn: i am convinced that in denno coil the virtual world was created (maybe only once) and then things and beings live on their own, interacting with users, who can swap from the "real" world to the "space", and if you can see things and touch them is because putting glasses makes you enter in that world rather than just watching at it.
but maybe it's totally different!
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Old 2007-05-19, 08:26   Link #120
wao
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Episode 2 was just as good as episode 1. I'm in too much of a grrrrr mood to say anything coherent now, but let's just say the animation was even better than episode 1, and we saw even more amazing things about the dennou world that simply continues to astound me every time. It is absolutely nothing short of creative and amazing - in that way how it feels vaguely familiar, yet you know you haven't actually seen anything like this. So it doesn't feel hard to 'get into' either despite there not being so many lengthy monlogues or explanations as to what things are.

Spoiler:


And already there are things in the story that keep you wondering, so it's not even completely just a standalone episode.
Spoiler:


Oh and if you were thinking the cuteness had stopped this episode,
Spoiler:


BTW, it seems like even in the show Dennou -> "Cyber" so, I guess it's good to go wtih Cyber after all.

I can't wait for next week...
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