AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Naruto

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-01-29, 12:42   Link #41
tkdtiger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Florida
An IQ of 135 is at the border of Genius level...average is around 125. Most people who graduated college or a University has an IQ at around 130-135. An IQ of 165 is well above what would be considered genius level. Of course this all depends on the type of IQ test you are taking. I'm basing this on the Gaussian scale. Average IQ is actual only around 90. Below 90 you are considered to have a deficiency. Basing this I have to consider Kakashi's IQ at about a level about 140, but below 200 as he appears surprised that Shikamaru is able to come up with a strategy so fast. I should also note that IQ is based some what on age. Shikamaru has an IQ of about 200 would not be the same as a grown adult with an IQ of 200.
tkdtiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 12:47   Link #42
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckcsf View Post
Where does it show that Shika's tactics are even better than Kakashi's? I don't remember Kakashi admitting that Shikamaru was better than him...
I never said it was stated that he was better, I said That latest Manga Chapter show He was better than Him. (as in the tactics he conducted to this 2 Akatsuki)

And Kakashi said in Chapter 271 that to fihgt an Enemy like Deidara, if you dont have the tool necesary (long range attacks) then it is imposible to defeat him, Unless You have a brain like Shikamaru, and then he said that He was Someone that has a Brain like Shikamaru.

In other words Shikamaru is the measuring stick when it comes to Intelligence, and as Shika has showed, he is superior in Kakashi in that.

tkdtiger, thanks for your nods about the subject, if Im not mistaken you are a Psychologists...Right?
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 13:02   Link #43
tkdtiger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Florida
It's no problem. I took many psychology courses, but am political science major. My friend is a psychologist though and we discuss stuff like this all the time. Einstein's IQ was estimated to be around 180. This would make Shikamaru one of the most intellegent people in the real world. Kakashi may be a genius level, but considering that Kishimoto puts alot of emphasis on Shikamaru's intellegence and as mentioned it does appear that Kakashi is surprised how Shikamarua is able to strategize at such speeds...
tkdtiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 13:08   Link #44
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdtiger View Post
It's no problem. I took many psychology courses, but am political science major. My friend is a psychologist though and we discuss stuff like this all the time. Einstein's IQ was estimated to be around 180. This would make Shikamaru one of the most intellegent people in the real world. Kakashi may be a genius level, but considering that Kishimoto puts alot of emphasis on Shikamaru's intellegence and as mentioned it does appear that Kakashi is surprised how Shikamarua is able to strategize at such speeds.
sounds just like me, except My Major is in Autamted Information Analysis (I needed to came up with a name for it in english )

And I agree with you About the Obsevration made by Kakshi, Kakshi been surprised about Shika changing the strat in such a short time, its an good indicator that it could be something Kakashi himself could not do with the kind of enemies to be faced.
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 13:17   Link #45
tkdtiger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Florida
haha...That's what I thought, although truthfully there is no right or wrong answers to this. I doubt Kishimoto was looking at age in comparing IQs so I'm guessing we can throw out the probability that Kishimoto was using a child's IQ rather then an adult's IQ and rather puts the grouping together. It's interesting that highest IQ tested was about 218 when the person was a child, but as an adult it's about 186. IQ will decrease when a person gets older, because as mentioned parts of it is based on age.
tkdtiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 13:28   Link #46
chuckcsf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
One thing I don't understand is, how did the manga show that Shika was better than Kakashi as far as tactics? I think you're just jumping into conclusions because Kakashi was surprised about Shika's abilities. Infact, the manga was just showing Shika's tactics and you can't really compare it to Kakashi's tactics since he did not show or use his own tactics...
chuckcsf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 13:40   Link #47
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckcsf View Post
One thing I don't understand is, how did the manga show that Shika was better than Kakashi as far as tactics? I think you're just jumping into conclusions because Kakashi was surprised about Shika's abilities. Infact, the manga was just showing Shika's tactics and you can't really compare it to Kakashi's tactics since he did not show or use his own tactics...
The fact That Shika Basically defeats all of his Opponent practically on tactics alone, when his enemies power difference are huge, whereas, Kakshi already showed more than once that his tactics are Good but not at the level of Shika and that Kakashi has already been outsmarted, whereas Shika hasn't been.

Nope, Im not jumping into conclusion, Im telling you exactly what the author is trying to say, Shika Tool is his Brain, his ability to make tactics, The abbility to defeat Enemies way more powerful than him on wits alone. Kakshi, haven't shown such thing, in other words, saying that kakashi Tactics is Equal or better than Shikas is Jumping to conclusion, given, Kakashi Tactics has been very limited in the series, whereas Shika fights are all about that.

And Dont expect Others even kakshi to have a mind Fight like Shikas, quite simply, because Thats Shika Unique fighting style plot wise, this is how Kishimoto has depained him in the series, while Kakashi would show you others means of fighting: MS, Chidory, Sharingan, Etc
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 14:08   Link #48
Supaiku_of_Sand
Ξ 3rd Squad Captain
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hell
Age: 25
Rurik is right, Kakashi is smart, yes, But when it comes down to it the sheer brilliance of Shikamaru is phenominal. Thats why Asuma said he might become hokage one day. becuase of his Intellect and his use of tactics is unlike anyone else. the esscense of brilliance just seems to flow through shikamaru. he very well could become hokage if he was just stronger, which i think he is becoming.
Supaiku_of_Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 14:18   Link #49
chuckcsf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
The fact That Shika Basically defeats all of his Opponent practically on tactics alone, when his enemies power difference are huge, whereas, Kakshi already showed more than once that his tactics are Good but not at the level of Shika and that Kakashi has already been outsmarted, whereas Shika hasn't been.

Nope, Im not jumping into conclusion, Im telling you exactly what the author is trying to say, Shika Tool is his Brain, his ability to make tactics, The abbility to defeat Enemies way more powerful than him on wits alone. Kakshi, haven't shown such thing, in other words, saying that kakashi Tactics is Equal or better than Shikas is Jumping to conclusion, given, Kakashi Tactics has been very limited in the series, whereas Shika fights are all about that.

And Dont expect Others even kakshi to have a mind Fight like Shikas, quite simply, because Thats Shika Unique fighting style plot wise, this is how Kishimoto has depained him in the series, while Kakashi would show you others means of fighting: MS, Chidory, Sharingan, Etc

Like I said, jumping into conclusions... I know the author wants us to know that Shika's tool is the brain... That's a given but that does not mean Kakashi is not as smart as Shika because it was said before that Shika was as smart as Kakashi. The author has not given any indication to this. If the author wanted to show that Kakashi is not as smart as Shika, he would have made it obvious. Just because it's Shika's time to shine, that doesn't mean he outshines everyone. I doubt he would be able to defeat Kakuzu with his wits alone.

Also, Shika's brilliance failed to save his sensei!
chuckcsf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 14:25   Link #50
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckcsf View Post
Like I said, jumping into conclusions... I know the author wants us to know that Shika's tool is the brain... That's a given but that does not mean Kakashi is not as smart as Shika because it was said before that Shika was as smart as Kakashi. The author has not given any indication to this. If the author wanted to show that Kakashi is not as smart as Shika, he would have made it obvious.
Really? Im jumping into conclusion when Im telling you what the Manga have already showed?

It seems you haven’t follow more closely Shikas fight, let me tell you, Shika’s plans things from the beginning of the fight until the end, everything that happens within the fight is calculation based on the plan he made, he puts gives a excellent use of the domino effect, he basically predicts what’s going to happen in the immediate future. NO one in this series has done this.

So, I think you should leave the assumption and talk about real facts here. What You are trying to prove or disprove is the something that can't be proven, is like me saying right now that Orochimaru is a better tactician that Kakashi, even When Oro hasn’t show doing any tactics, can you prove this wrong? Don’t ask to prove right or wrong somehitng that cant be proven.

The fact here is that Shika fight has been done and mostly won With tactics, Kakashi Fight has not meet the same type of Fate. So, basically, Saying That Kakshi is equal or better than Shika, Is like saying Sasuke shairngan is better than Itachis. The auhtor has said that Kakshi is as smart as Shika, however he is not Equal or better than Shika as this has been shown many times already. Im stating what its shown in the Manga, You are just trying yo avoid this facts.

Quote:
I doubt he would be able to defeat Kakuzu with his wits alone.
Well enemies as Kakuuzu are meant to be killed by power more than anything, this still doesnt means that its a certainty Kakuuzu cant be defeated like that. either way you are trying to make it look as if Im saying Kakshi isnt smart, whereas Im just pointing out, Shikamaru is above him, and thats a fact from the manga.
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 14:37   Link #51
Supaiku_of_Sand
Ξ 3rd Squad Captain
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hell
Age: 25
i think what rurik is trying to say is that yes kakashi is smart and skilled, However Shikamaru can think 200 moves in advance, thats why he's so good at shogi and go, he thinks so far ahead and can change the nature of those ideas in an instant i dont think kakashi can do that. he might be able to think 10 or so moves ahead but then again so can any decent chess player.
Supaiku_of_Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 14:39   Link #52
chuckcsf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Really? Im jumping into conclusion when Im telling you what the Manga have already showed?

It seems you havenít follow more closely Shikas fight, let me tell you, Shikaís plans things from the beginning of the fight until the end, everything that happens within the fight is calculation based on the plan he made, he puts gives a excellent use of the domino effect, he basically predicts whatís going to happen in the immediate future. NO one in this series has done this.

So, I think you should leave the assumption and talk about real facts here. What You are trying to prove or disprove is the something that can't be proven, is like me saying right now that Orochimaru is a better tactician that Kakashi, even When Oro hasnít show doing any tactics, can you prove this wrong? Donít ask to prove right or wrong somehitng that cant be proven.

The fact here is that Shika fight has been done and mostly won With tactics, Kakashi Fight has not meet the same type of Fate. So, basically, Saying That Kakshi is equal or better than Shika, Is like saying Sasuke shairngan is better than Itachis. The auhtor has said that Kakshi is as smart as Shika, however he is not Equal or better than Shika as this has been shown many times already. Im stating what its shown in the Manga, You are just trying yo avoid this facts.
You can't really base Kakashi's tactics on his previous fights because... this isn't real like you said! Yes Kakashi has had some failures so did Shika. They all have failures in the past but, you can't use the past episodes to compare to the more resent unless if the author wants you too and he will make it obvious.

And let us look at the facts... Shika is brilliant, Shika is more brilliant than most Ninjas... These are the only "FACTS" in the manga. The manga doesn't say which ones but it is safe to say, most chuunins and genins and some jounins like Asuma. Other than that, is he better the Gai when it comes to tactics? This has not been mentioned as fact.
chuckcsf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 14:41   Link #53
chuckcsf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supaiku_of_Sand View Post
i think what rurik is trying to say is that yes kakashi is smart and skilled, However Shikamaru can think 200 moves in advance, thats why he's so good at shogi and go, he thinks so far ahead and can change the nature of those ideas in an instant i dont think kakashi can do that. he might be able to think 10 or so moves ahead but then again so can any decent chess player.
Real fact: A person can beat a computer who can think up 300 possible moves in advance in chess.
chuckcsf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 14:43   Link #54
Supaiku_of_Sand
Ξ 3rd Squad Captain
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hell
Age: 25
i never said anything about not being able to defeat shikamaru im just saying its quite difficult to do
Supaiku_of_Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 14:50   Link #55
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckcsf View Post
You can't really base Kakashi's tactics on his previous fights because... this isn't real like you said! Yes Kakashi has had some failures so did Shika. They all have failures in the past but, you can't use the past episodes to compare to the more resent unless if the author wants you too and he will make it obvious.

And let us look at the facts... Shika is brilliant, Shika is more brilliant than most Ninjas... These are the only "FACTS" in the manga.
So, Basically what you are saying is that we can't just base things of what has been said in the manga, rather make up things to our own accord? Right. and Shika failures have not been because his plan didn't work out, Rather, He was at the end (this case only Tayuya) he was overpowered.

Ok, lets make this more easier, have Shikamarus plans been outsmarted by his opponent?

Have Kakshi Been outsmarted by his opponent?

Have Kakashi won any fight on wits alone?

And then let me remind you on what you asked:

Quote:
Where does it show that Shika's tactics are even better than Kakashi's?
So basically you just asked were have Shikas tactics been shonw to be better than Kakashi..I point you out were, Ill give you also his fight with Tayuya.

Now, I will ask, where does it show that Kakashi tactics has been equal, or Better That Shikamarus? Shikamaru think 200 of different moves in second, he is a lot of steps ahead of his opponent, whereas Kakashi hasn’t done that, so once again, Show me your Manga proof, instead of taking things out of nowhere.


Quote:
The manga doesn't say which ones but it is safe to say, most chuunins and genins and some jounins like Asuma. Other than that, is he better the Gai when it comes to tactics? This has not been mentioned as fact.
In fact until proven otherwise, Shika is Superior than Gai, because that the fact we have right now. as of know, no one is superior than Shika in this department. Just as Itachi is the best Doujutsu user in the series, and until otherwise thats our fact.

when we talk about facts we talk about what has been shown in the manga and are within those boundaries, what you are doing is just making up something that was not even remotely close to be mentioned in the Manga.
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 14:50   Link #56
chuckcsf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supaiku_of_Sand View Post
i never said anything about not being able to defeat shikamaru im just saying its quite difficult to do
I know, I'm just saying that the manga has not stated as fact Kakashi's limit as far as coming up with strategies. I am not saying that it is impossible for Shika to be a much better tactician than Kakashi. I am just waitng for more solid evidence before jumping into conclusions especially that this is not "real" and anything can be made possible.
chuckcsf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 14:55   Link #57
chuckcsf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
So, Basically what you are saying is that we can't just base things of what has been said in the manga, rather make up things to our own accord? Right. and Shika failures have not been because his plan didn't work out, Rather, He was at the end (this case only Tayuya) he was overpowered.

Ok, lets make this more easier, have Shikamarus plans been outsmarted by his opponent?

Have Kakshi Been outsmarted by his opponent?

Have Kakashi won any fight on wits alone?

And then let me remind you on what you asked:



So basically you just asked were have Shikas tactics been shonw to be better than Kakashi..I point you out were, Ill give you also his fight with Tayuya.

Now, I will ask, where does it show that Kakashi tactics has been equal, or Better That Shikamarus? Shikamaru think 200 of different moves in second, he is a lot of steps ahead of his opponent, where havenít done that, so once again, Show me your Manga proof, instead of taking things out of nowhere.


In fact until proven otherwise, Shika is Superior than Gai, because that the fact we have right now. as of know, no one is superior than Shika in this department. Just as Itachi is the best Doujutsu user in the series, and until otherwise thats our fact.

when we talk about facts we talk about what has been shown in the manga and are within those boundaries, what you are doing is just making up something that was not even remotely close to be mentioned in the Manga.
Ok so show me in the Manga where it states that Shikamaru is the best in tactics in the whole village? Does the manga show that he is the best or does it only show that he is very very very good at it? Stay with the facts man, don't just jump into conclusions. And like I said, you can't really compare the past battles unless the author wants you to because these are not based on real life.
chuckcsf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 14:58   Link #58
Supaiku_of_Sand
Ξ 3rd Squad Captain
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hell
Age: 25
i see what your getting at, you want solid proof becuase even though it seems IMPLIED by kishimoto that Shikamaru is the better tactician, you want to be sure. ok. but if i may, wasnt Kakashi Surprised how well thought out the plan for attacking Hidan and Kakuza was. He didnt say it but i think it was in his thought bubble in the manga somewhere. that he was impressed how much thought Shikamaru put into it.


And on another note if Shikamaru wasnt the best in tactic, the why the hell would the Hokage Herself be asking his advice on matters like this? even in the actual anime, gondaime hokage is asking Shikamarus advice on the situation in the filler about the carpenter tring to blow up konoha, why wouldnt she ask someone else? If there was anyone better to ask..
Supaiku_of_Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 15:01   Link #59
chuckcsf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supaiku_of_Sand View Post
i see what your getting at, you want solid proof becuase even though it seems IMPLIED by kishimoto that Shikamaru is the better tactician, you want to be sure. ok. but if i may, wasnt Kakashi Surprised how well thought out the plan for attacking Hidan and Kakuza was. He didnt say it but i think it was in his thought bubble in the manga somewhere. that he was impressed how much thought Shikamaru put into it.
Well to me, Kishimoto IMPLIED that Shikamaru is a really good tactician not a better tactician but a really good tactician. Being surprised does not mean Shikamaru is better. I am surprised how smart my dog is but that doesn't mean my dog is smarter. That only means that I didn't know my dog was smart at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supaiku_of_Sand View Post
And on another note if Shikamaru wasnt the best in tactic, the why the hell would the Hokage Herself be asking his advice on matters like this? even in the actual anime, gondaime hokage is asking Shikamarus advice on the situation in the filler about the carpenter tring to blow up konoha, why wouldnt she ask someone else? If there was anyone better to ask..
Because it is IMPLIED that Shikamaru is a really good tactician. I don't think they know who the best tactician is and I don't think they have the time to have a "best tactician" contest.
chuckcsf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-01-29, 15:11   Link #60
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckcsf View Post
Ok so show me in the Manga where it states that Shikamaru is the best in tactics in the whole village? Does the manga show that he is the best or does it only show that he is very very very good at it? Stay with the facts man, don't just jump into conclusions. And like I said, you can't really compare the past battles unless the author wants you to because these are not based on real life
LOL, Show me in the Manga where it was stated that Sasuke Gained the 3 dots Sharingan, Show me were it was stated that Itachi Used Taijutsu when he kicked Kurenai. Show Me where it was stated that Zabuza what Zabuza had was a sword and not a Broomstick. thing doesnít need to be stated to become facts, thatís the reason why we also have visuals. this is a Manga, not a Book.

It seems you donít know the meaning of your own question, You asked a question I gave you an answer, However you didnít show me were Kakshi Tactic have surpassed Shikamarus.

You are talking about the Possibility that in the future Kishomoto says (You are Changing your question now as it was Shown) that Kakshi is a better tactic than Shikamaru, which I havenít say it cant happen, however this as it could be say, it also couldnít be said; but we are talking here about facts (because that was what you asked for), not about the possibility of what could happen.

As anything can happen, and Kishi could decide that the most intelligent character in the series is AL and he has an IQ of 400. but those are basically opinions on what you think its going to happen, your Opinion, which is neither fact or what Kishimoto Thinks.

So Im not jumping to conclusion, rather you are making things up and not accepting manga facts.

Also, stop the double posting, use the edit option.
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.