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Old 2007-02-08, 23:32   Link #81
Luminion Lancer
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...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Good find, I didn't pay attention to the details of the second piece, assuming it is a part of one of the masks. So, now, the question is did Kakuzu's original heart have the durability to survive that attack?
-That seems to be the question on everybody's mind right now. Did he survive? Maybe. Did he get severly wounded and thrashed like the rag doll he is? You better believe it. If all goes well in the future this will be the end of him and his wortless a** already received the big, ugly ax.
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Old 2007-02-08, 23:43   Link #82
gibits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
What Sasuke did shows how much he is in control of Sharingan, in the current time. In control of the eye, which is mostly known for two things, the first one is something Sasuke mastered long time ago, and the other one is genjutsu. There is the third one, but he is not there yet. And, guess, what he did is close to which part?
Sorry but what does "what he did is close to which part" mean?

I'm not denying that the Sharingan has the potential to be a great genjutsu tool, but to say that he is a genjutsu user just because of that is jumping to conclusions at this point. Kakashi has the sharingan as well yet genjutsus are hardly his forte, and as far as we know he has even better control of the Sharingan than Sasuke.

By your argument you could say Sasuke has the MS as well since he has the sharingan, yet you would not say this because he has not shown to use it. Same thing with genjutsu, he has never shown any amptitude for it.
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Old 2007-02-09, 00:00   Link #83
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Originally Posted by gibits View Post
Sorry but what does "what he did is close to which part" mean?

I'm not denying that the Sharingan has the potential to be a great genjutsu tool, but to say that he is a genjutsu user just because of that is jumping to conclusions at this point. Kakashi has the sharingan as well yet genjutsus are hardly his forte, and as far as we know he has even better control of the Sharingan than Sasuke.

By your argument you could say Sasuke has the MS as well since he has the sharingan, yet you would not say this because he has not shown to use it. Same thing with genjutsu, he has never shown any amptitude for it.
I meant to say that: What Sasuke did is more related to the ability of Sharingan close to Genjutsu than movement tracking ability of the eye. You can consider ability leading to MS, if you want. But, in any case, being able to use the eye to that level is not something a typical Uchiha can achieve, it seems, from the words of Kyuubi.

Sasuke does not have to be a superior genjutsu user just like his brother, cause it will not help him beat Itachi mainly because he might never have the chance to exceed Itachi in that area, he can only create a balance in that aspect. But, to overcome Itachi's dominance, he needs to have high level of genjutsu skills, in my opinion that is a must if Sasuke has to survive against Itachi.

Now, whether he has amptitude for that or not, the easiest answer is yes, he does, since anyone who has very good chakra control skills can achieve that feature (and Sasuke has it). If you add a genetical ability that makes it easier for him to use and enhance such a technique, then it becomes really difficult to understand why he cannot.

And, saying "he needs to have good genjutsu skills" is equal to saying "a sharingan bearer needs to MS" is not correct, cause, it seems that genjutsu is a basic skill for any Sharingan bearer, whereas MS is the product of an exceptional situation.
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Old 2007-02-09, 00:01   Link #84
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I'm guessing this new Rasengan is not 'the jutsu' that Jiraiya mentioned right since it was Kakashi/Yamato who taught it to him?
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Old 2007-02-09, 00:25   Link #85
xPresagio
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Hard to see an experienced fighter falling for such ruse and even more problematic that he has taken so lightly, to the container of the most powerful demon/Youma (?).

But let's cut him some slack. After all, his primary function was to be the Akatsuki's accountant..

Some random thoughts:

-If Kakuzu's body was predominantly made of threads, shouldn't the final result of getting hit by a vortex running through his chest have been a bit "messier"? (I can accept that such powerful jutsu is capable of creating craters in hard rock but not disintegrating a mere piece of meat, but his body was hardly damaged!)

-Kakuzu was never portrayed as a fast fighter. He completely missed a hit against a distracted Shikamaru, back in their first encounter. And rarely move after that, except to drop a couple of kicks to Asuma and a Sharingan user. He did caught Kakashi while jumping, but it was from behind. And even then, it probably was more due to the tentacle's speed.

-Ino truly didn't do a thing in the whole arc, except possessing a large bird. Since only 6 Akatsuki remain, there aren't much chances left for her to shine, if ever.

-This chapter was supposed to show how much Naruto had changed. I'm wonder if Kakashi did notice the difference (aside of the new jutsu).

-You can more or less see Yamato running for his life at the face of the explosion, pretty much leaving Ino and Chouji eating the dust.


-I still don't understand why Kishimoto keeps opening potential mini plots, but never returning to them: First the whole Asuma as the conflicting son of Sandaime, then the special power (can't recall the name) in possesion of the monk leader of the fire's shrine (which we never saw). Then, the revelation of Asuma having the Air affinity (which is never used, except with the aid of a chakra knife), the capture and interrogation of the bounty dealer, Hidan's religion and the true nature of his apparent "fake" immortality, the whole ultra-secret scroll that Shikamaru kept looking at, while powerful attacks were coming to him (which ended up not having an impact in the fight). The 24hrs limit to complete the jutsu: a deadline that didn't add to the sense of urgency. And finally, Kakuzu's "I survived the Shodaime" but wasn't much impressed when a random nin happen to use the same special Mokuton technique..

A shame. On the bright side, even if 8 pages sounded a bit excessive, it turned out to be quite good, as it gave us more information about who the jutsu work, and why the "arms" of the shuriken are important.

Also, I'm quite eager to see what's next. Did Kakuzu survive? What's going to be the reaction of AL? or Oro? Will Shikamaru and Naruto get promoted? How is Jiraya going to react to Naruto's new way of training?

Last edited by xPresagio; 2007-02-09 at 01:07.
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Old 2007-02-09, 01:18   Link #86
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I really want to know what "that" Jutsu is that Jiraiya is talking about. It was said back in Chapter 251 page 14. Its been close 90 chapters since it was said. I really want to know what it means...We never did see Naruto get behind Kakazu...

Chapter 251 page 13 Jiraiya tells Naruto his bad habit is getting hot headed too fast.

Akatsuki knows Naruto as the ninja who shouts and rushes in...

It says a lot about Naruto how he's kept his cool. He didn't rush in last time. He has come a long way since the last battle with Akatsuki.

I'm anxious to see whats going to follow after this.
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Old 2007-02-09, 03:47   Link #87
DeDe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xPresagio View Post
the whole ultra-secret scroll that Shikamaru kept looking at, while powerful attacks were coming to him (which ended up not having an impact in the fight).
While not explained, I assume that he was going to try to seal the attack. It was one of those little details Kishi likes to add. I think Kishimoto added it to show Shika was able to take care of himself and was in control even in a dire situation. As opposed to Ino and Choji who Kakashi had to babysit for most of the fight.

But you're right about all the other loose ends Kishimoto has left untied. I have a feeling the questions about Kakuzu and Hidan will be addressed within the next few chapters so we can put them to rest.
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Old 2007-02-09, 05:11   Link #88
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anti climactic.
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Old 2007-02-09, 05:12   Link #89
Hunter
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Originally Posted by gibits View Post
We have yet to see Sasuke use any genjutsu at all, or show an aptitude/inclination for it. "Suppressing" Kybuui would not be that much of a problem in a rematch since Naruto isn't relying on Kybuui now (well lets hope so). If i had to guess his AoE attack would be thunder related anyway, though i really have no proof of it (since it hasn't happened yet).
Sasuke used a Sharingan Genjutsu against Sai and I wasn't talking about how the suppression thingy was going to be very useful or not on Naruto now, just that it was something new yet not Lightning related.
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Old 2007-02-09, 05:40   Link #90
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Chidori vs Rasengan Manga gets tiresome fast.

The best aspect of early Naruto was that the characters never constantly relied on a super finishing move constantly. If they did, then it would get exposed and countered.

Kishimoto needs more inspiration to progress the story beyond increasing old jutsu to the next level.

Chidori vs Rasengan has been done now:
1. On hospital roof
2. Waterfall

Is there really a need for a 3rd Chidori vs Rasengan encounter?

I didn't mind the last chapter, but Kishimoto really is playing down Naruto to make Sasuke look so much better, even after the effect of Rasen Shuriiken.
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Old 2007-02-09, 05:47   Link #91
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Originally Posted by Kenu View Post
I didn't mind the last chapter, but Kishimoto really is playing down Naruto to make Sasuke look so much better, even after the effect of Rasen Shuriiken.

Naruto just took down an Akatsuki -and a rather powerful one as that- in one blow in a matter of minutes.
How is that playing him down compared to Sasuke?
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Old 2007-02-09, 06:22   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post

Naruto just took down an Akatsuki -and a rather powerful one as that- in one blow in a matter of minutes.
How is that playing him down compared to Sasuke?
naruto didnt acomplish anything on his own...there were a before battle where kakuzu was killed by kakashi...after that battle( we are talking about kakashi here not an ordinary nameless anbu or shinobi) back up arrived ...before all this hidan and kakuzu were in a battle with asuma and co and after that they did sealing and then again in a battle...

so its not like it was a shiny day where kakuzu was fishing and naruto was walking around and happen to see each other and battle...

more over naruto didnt success his first attempt and only yamato and kakashi was able to help him...if not he was dead....so he didnt took an akatsukian on 1 on 1...that is a total different story....he is still way down below sasuke for me n_n
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Old 2007-02-09, 08:53   Link #93
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Isn't this usually the case when Itachi, Sasuke, and some others win while the others lose? Sasuke suddenly starts entering Naruto's mind to have a chat with Kyuubi, suddenly the others become as if their IQ's have dropped, and suddenly all hail Sasuke screams are everywhere. Sorry, no surprise at all.
Hmmm, regarding Itachi, when did the opponents IQ dropped? I donít seem to remember that, as the only reason Asuma Kurenai and Kakashi got to live another day was in part because of Kakashi wits.


Also, I donít remember anyone acting dumb against Sasuke when he did his Sharingan inside your head trick.

On the other hand for Kakuuzu there is no excuse He got very Dumb, and Inexperience, a Shinoby that needs to have more than 80 Years of experience under his belt, became a Ninja that looked like he had Genin type of experience.
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Old 2007-02-09, 09:41   Link #94
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i think the reason he took back the 2 other hearts was to prevent another chidori kind of situation...

if the only heart in his body is destroyed while the other hearts are off galavanting, what happens to him?

I doubt he expected Naruto's attack to be an AOE of sheer pwnage like it was.
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Old 2007-02-09, 10:01   Link #95
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Ummm...

The Naruto who decided to focus on his talent not relying on that monster anymore, create a goddamn nuke.

The side characters are moronic cheerleaders to make sure the readers understand the new Naruto is awesome.

The Akatsuki contradict their own words and become morons for the main character to show off his jutsu.

You're such a bad writer, Kishimoto.
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Old 2007-02-09, 10:48   Link #96
gibits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Sasuke used a Sharingan Genjutsu against Sai and I wasn't talking about how the suppression thingy was going to be very useful or not on Naruto now, just that it was something new yet not Lightning related.
Ahh I forgot about that, good find.

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Originally Posted by tatami View Post
naruto didnt acomplish anything on his own...there were a before battle where kakuzu was killed by kakashi...after that battle( we are talking about kakashi here not an ordinary nameless anbu or shinobi) back up arrived ...before all this hidan and kakuzu were in a battle with asuma and co and after that they did sealing and then again in a battle...

so its not like it was a shiny day where kakuzu was fishing and naruto was walking around and happen to see each other and battle...

more over naruto didnt success his first attempt and only yamato and kakashi was able to help him...if not he was dead....so he didnt took an akatsukian on 1 on 1...that is a total different story....he is still way down below sasuke for me n_n
Naruto easily took out at least 2 (maybe 3) of Kakuza's lives, while Kakashi and team Shika had to fight tooth and nail to do it. Did you see how Kazuzu was just manhandling Kakashi and co? That was when Kakuzu was down one heart already too.
Honestly Naruto should've done it in ch 340 if Kishi hadn't decided to add some humor into the situation. That should not be counted against him, in fact it should show just how good he is to get in his oppenent's blind spot twice and land perfect hits.
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Old 2007-02-09, 10:57   Link #97
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Hmmm, regarding Itachi, when did the opponents IQ dropped? I don’t seem to remember that, as the only reason Asuma Kurenai and Kakashi got to live another day was in part because of Kakashi wits.
For instance, Jiraiya *the person who was once considered to become the Hokage* falling for a simple trick, Asuma and Kurenai acting like they know nothing about Itachi, and giving a lot of openings, are just a few simple examples.

Quote:
Also, I don’t remember anyone acting dumb against Sasuke when he did his Sharingan inside your head trick.
Sakura acting like she is in a dream world, Yamato one minute acting like a low level opponent and easily falling for a simple attack, another minute telling us he will stop with plays and get serious, etc.

Quote:
On the other hand for Kakuuzu there is no excuse He got very Dumb, and Inexperience, a Shinoby that needs to have more than 80 Years of experience under his belt, became a Ninja that looked like he had Genin type of experience.
If emotions are a reason for such carelessness, then Kakuzu's case can be considered as one too, but in that case, it is more like overconfidence, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

Didn't another great Akatsuki *Sasori*, despite his considerable amount of experience and the presumption of having no emotions left within himself, actually lose to his emotions? Only at that time, it happened a little bit late.

Or maybe, just like we have considered it for Sasuke's and Itachi's cases, we have to accept that Naruto has really outwitted his opponent and give him the sufficient credit rather than try to take credit from him by proposing excuses for Kakuzu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Sasuke used a Sharingan Genjutsu against Sai and I wasn't talking about how the suppression thingy was going to be very useful or not on Naruto now, just that it was something new yet not Lightning related.
I thought the type of that attack Sasuke performed on Sai has not been verified, whether it is like what Oro used on Sasuke (an intent to kill) or a Sharingan genjutsu.
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Old 2007-02-09, 11:15   Link #98
Hunter
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
I thought the type of that attack Sasuke performed on Sai has not been verified, whether it is like what Oro used on Sasuke (an intent to kill) or a Sharingan genjutsu.
I wasn't sure either the first time I read the chapter... Then the obvious struck me and I noticed that the big sfx crossing the double page is the one used for Genjutsu ^^
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Old 2007-02-09, 11:16   Link #99
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Originally Posted by tatami View Post
naruto didnt acomplish anything on his own...there were a before battle where kakuzu was killed by kakashi...after that battle( we are talking about kakashi here not an ordinary nameless anbu or shinobi) back up arrived ...before all this hidan and kakuzu were in a battle with asuma and co and after that they did sealing and then again in a battle...

so its not like it was a shiny day where kakuzu was fishing and naruto was walking around and happen to see each other and battle...

more over naruto didnt success his first attempt and only yamato and kakashi was able to help him...if not he was dead....so he didnt took an akatsukian on 1 on 1...that is a total different story....he is still way down below sasuke for me n_n
Also you have to remember, Naruto has been training nonstop so it's not like he is at 100%! Besides I'm sure when he practice his rasenshuriken, the impact would also do some damage on him. Plus, when they showed up. Kakuzu asked him why he showed up already beat up.
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Old 2007-02-09, 11:32   Link #100
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Also you have to remember, Naruto has been training nonstop so it's not like he is at 100%! Besides I'm sure when he practice his rasenshuriken, the impact would also do some damage on him. Plus, when they showed up. Kakuzu asked him why he showed up already beat up.
then i will be a remainder of kyuubi healing factor....
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