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View Poll Results: Kanon - 2006 - Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 67 46.53%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 50 34.72%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 8.33%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 3.47%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 3.47%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.69%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 1.39%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.39%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-02-15, 01:16   Link #1
monir
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Kanon - 2006 - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

Welcome to the discussion thread for Kanon, Episode 20.

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Old 2007-02-15, 15:35   Link #2
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Rather well done. Episode could be renamed "Ayu's Cosplay Adventure" as she goes through about 6 different costume changes, including but not limited to Nayuki's uniform
Spoiler:
and a business suit in U-1's imagination.

Lots of blushing this ep too, and every time U-1 does it, he looks like a tomato. Some good funny moments in the first half, but the ep's about the second half...
Spoiler:


Ah well, pretty much exactly what I expected from the ep, minus the Ayu cosplay adventure and Yuuichi trying to groom her to be a proper female.
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Old 2007-02-15, 15:40   Link #3
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The very last part was.... it hit me out of nowhere, almost surreal, despite that I should have been well aware that things will play out this way. Had I not played the game, I would be scratching my head right about now, trying to see a rational explaination for this turn of event.
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Old 2007-02-15, 15:55   Link #4
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Screenshots of episode 20 courtesy of Random Curiosity. Look at it at your own risk!!!.
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-02-15, 17:18   Link #5
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Nice.

Although I do not understand most of what they were saying (really, Mai's was the easiest leg to go through because it was more action-packed than dialogue-driven), this wasn't too bad. It had its fair share of action-oriented dramatic moments. You’ll have to see it to believe it.

The art has improved from the previous episode. It all seemed too blurry then, here it's a little cleaner with the sunset glare not really getting in the way as much. It's a funny feeling that most of the scenes of episode twenty take place during the afternoon to night time of day. Is this suppose to create an ominous or nostalgic effect? Guess that depends on the viewer. Finally, the CG implemented was sufficient while not getting in the way or making it difficult to watch. The rubber ducky was a little too obvious from the norm...

You know with all the school people out of the way, we really get a chance to focus on the characters that live at home together. And that is Akiko, Nayuki, Yuuichi, and Ayu in case you forgot. They're all really close, you know. Yuuichi is like the big brother of the house, the muscle man (since he's the only man heh). Akiko is in many ways the observing landlord. She doesn't really try to get in the way, but she definitely seems someone you can reach up to when you're down. And yet, she is probably the most mysterious person at the moment. The jam, where she works (which is brought up in this episode) to make an income, all remain mysteries. And of course, everybody loves Ayu. She’s that wonderful charismatic smile that livens the place up with her effort and antics. And because she lives with them, they’re all one big happy family.

Which brings us to Nayuki: I’ve said before that there is no guarantee that Ayu’s arc will finish before Nayuki’s. And that is still up for debate, although the evidence for this is dwindling less and less. The preview for episode twenty-one strongly suggests another Ayu episode (the last episode? uncertain), but the events that transpired here can still imply otherwise.

Nayuki herself has changed 180, and we finally have the reason why. I always thought that the producers were delaying Nayuki’s arc for the last two or the last one, but they way they did it was obtrusive. Making her a head-bumping zombie one episode after another was starting to annoy me; the comedy was starting to die down. Well, here she is; the way we met her in episode one, just the way I like her. After hearing the reason from Akiko, they were logical with doing this to Nayuki and I feel more sympathetic to the producers now. Still it would’ve been nice to hear other excuses or find other ways to delay her… or simply do what they did for Shiori: begin her arc from as early as the second episode and go through it little by little. Of course, the only drawback for this is with two subplots, you’re jumping all over the place and there’s little consistency, no room to make emotional impacts. So yeah, KyoAni was wise.

Nayuki’s attitude is a little different now. She has more focus than before, yet seems more preoccupied – and of course, we kind of hint what she is preoccupied with. There is a love triangle forming here. But from episode twenty, I don’t believe she’s fully aware of it. She’s as affectionate to Ayu as before, but something she sees in Yuuichi’s eyes makes her worry. She needs a bump on the arm to wake her, disappointed to not walk home with him together. I wonder how she feels about him. Too bad this question’s gonna linger until we see episode twenty-two, I’ll bet.

As for Yuuichi and Ayu, let me begin by discussing something off a tangent. In anime, people are so shy about expressing intimate feelings for one another. They’ll look the other way, they’ll cover their eyes, they’ll whisper, or they won’t say anything at all. Sometimes the most you will see is person A doing something to an unconscious person B in the middle of their sleep. CUT! That’s it. How do they respond to it? We don’t know…because they don’t talk about it or they don’t know it. Bugs me to hell! I want clear, definite visual/audio display that somebody likes someone. However, the problem may lie simply in Japan’s cultural imperatives. In other words, this is the way they’ve always portrayed love, and the producers don’t want to break a traditional method that works. But I don’t know how much more I can take this cliché act of ambiguity. And judging from statistics, the time for ambiguity and endings that don’t portray an ending is over. It may have worked with Evangelion or Bubblegum Crisis 2040 or Advent Children, but people are more fed up than entertained by it lately.

Kanon delivers the atypical, however (thank you). I hear a confession, and there’s various intimate acts going on around here. You totally get the sense that they’re comfortable with each other (well they’ve had seven years, right?). At the same time, they’re not willing to publicize it in front of Akiko and Nayuki all with good reason. They work hard for each other, and there’s a lot more time spent with these feelings within them, which naturally builds up (I believe the previous record of Yuuichi having romantic feelings for anyone – Shiori – was 10 minutes? Tops… before he realized he may never see her again?). Yuuichi chasing after her with obvious effort had some pretty strong impacts in my head (and his). The feelings he has for Ayu are stronger than any girl previous. And by now you should see the pattern. So really, I wonder what Nayuki will have to offer?

The biggest question I have is: why the shock? Ayu must’ve never looked into her backpack before. Hmmm, questions questions. Ayu displaying a wealth of emotion was perhaps the highlight of the episode. Yuuichi sticks his nose out for her, but something really depressing forces her to do what we’ve seen already. I don’t know. History has repeated itself twice; will Yuuichi let history repeat a third time?

Not if the theme of family can do something about it (see preview lol)!

Final rant: please, you didn’t have to repeat yourself twice at the end. I have ears.


EDIT: Everything here is an opinion and may not necessarily be correct. I'm referring to my paragraph on anime portrayals of love and ambiguity. Furthermore, some parts of my discussion were exaggerated to prove a point. No offense to all the Shiori fans out there. >_>
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Last edited by Zaris; 2007-02-15 at 17:27. Reason: Editor's Note
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Old 2007-02-15, 17:53   Link #6
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The end of this episode was something I expected to happen, judging by the episode title. Really not much to say since Zaris already gave his wall of texts on the matter. lol

"Nice." - ditto.
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Old 2007-02-15, 19:48   Link #7
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That was awesome, so well done. I couldn't help but laugh when Akiko said...

Spoiler for unless you want to be spoiled:
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Old 2007-02-15, 23:38   Link #8
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The development at the end of last episode was sudden (despite the fact that 19 was supposed to serve as a buffer against Shiori's scenario), but it's nothing compared to this episode. Just looking at this from a purely anime point of view, the Yuuichi x Ayu thing really felt like it jumped out of nowhere (considering Yuuichi's steel defence against all the other girls up to this point). But well, it was lovely to watch the two of them acting all awkward. Ahh, youthful love.

The first part was a mix of cute Ayu fan service (that bath scene... scrolling warning message as usual ), and some interesting reactions from Nayuki and Akiko-san. As usual, I have to praise Kyoani's artists for being able to reflect emotions so effectively with subtle expressions.

Yuuichi teasing Ayu with the "Ugu~ Boku Ayu" job interview thing cracked me up.

Spoiler:

The second part featured some of the most powerful scenes from Ayu's route, and it was pulled off with just as much impact as I hoped it would have.

Now then,
Spoiler:

This week's highlight:
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-02-15, 23:51   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y View Post
(that bath scene... scrolling warning message as usual )
I know I was trying to edit that scene, but...
ps: someone online put the Makoto bath screentshot and Ayu bath screenshot together...The winner is obvious (a difference of 1 cm?! ) pss: Makoto's scene also has the warning msg...

With Ayu gone, KyoAni will probably go into Nayuki's route

Spoiler for game:


The progress (aka the kiss) between Ayu and Yuuichi was very abrupt. 2 episodes ago, Yuuichi is still moaning over Shiori.... Ahh well. Childhood friend, what can I say- I never had one (that I would consider). Maybe there is something between childhood friends that can make one transform like this...

In this episode, Ayu looks very much like Kaede to me. Must be the orange hair.

And of course, Nayuki is silently cranking up... I wonder... I really feel sorry for her now
Yes Yuuichi, you are right- you are an idiot (for not noticing Nayuki's feeling).
(And you are awfully shy about your first(and second) love....

Finally, the bed scene did make me tense up a bit.

Spoiler for game:


almost forgot- they mentioned Akiko and her job. With her walking to work...
Spoiler for game:




"I(boku) can't stay here? Am...I wrong by staying here?...Lie...This is a lie!"
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Last edited by Thelastguardian; 2007-02-16 at 00:50.
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Old 2007-02-16, 10:14   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y View Post
Just looking at this from a purely anime point of view, the Yuuichi x Ayu thing really felt like it jumped out of nowhere (considering Yuuichi's steel defence against all the other girls up to this point)
i guess thats one thing i didnt like but its only a minor flaw ~

man again its the 2nd half of this ep that kicks you hard ~
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-02-16, 11:34   Link #11
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Seems like Nayuki is the only girl in the series who'll end up getting shafted (in the sad sense). Every other one so far got her issues fixed by Super-Yuuichi, and Ayu seems to be "the one" in the end, with all the flashbacks and focus on her.

Apart from Ayu's dramatic parts, the 2 scenes that stood out most to me were
Spoiler for this episode:


I'm starting to wish that Yuuichi ends up alone... Isn't it sad Nayuki?
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Old 2007-02-16, 11:36   Link #12
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I... Have no idea what the hell is going on... 0_0

Yes, I notice all of the character's expression. Yes, I pulled my ears out to listen to every small detail in their speech (which alot of it were just lovey-dovey mushy talk... ^^" ). and yes I stared at the last few scenes till my eyes dried out.

I have no idea what's going on in Ayu's arc... Somebody, ANYBODY give me a sign! Point me in the right direction! A hint, A clue, anything!
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Old 2007-02-16, 11:56   Link #13
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I had the story inadvertently spoiled early on, but up until now it hasn't hurt the experience too much. Now... Now the sense of mystery and wonder is gone. Those who've played the game/seen the other series at least have the memories of it being revealed to them to go on. For me, well... that's why they call them "spoilers": They spoil the experience.

What really spoiled the experience for me, though, was the romance. I know this is what happened in the game, so I expect it to be here, good or bad, but I just don't find it believable at all. The relationship just hasn't seemed romantic before, so to make that leap seems... forced. Especially as childish as Ayu is--I just can't see her as adult enough for Yuuichi to view her that way any more than the way his relationship with Makoto was protrayed earlier in the series.

The fanservice was very out of place. It shouldn't have been there.

Also, I will murder some one if Nayuki isn't happy soon.

Despite my disappointment with this particular episode, I'm still loving Kanon. It's been a long time since a show made me wish a character were real so I could give them a hug. Aaaah, 萌え!
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Old 2007-02-16, 12:18   Link #14
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Wait for the sub.

U1 and Ayu looks like students who forced by their teacher to play Romance drama in front of class. Lack of expression, but a funny confession though. So sudden, so funny, so sad.

first time Ayu teasing U1.
First time she calls herself with atashi (and last?)
and, I didnt expect She will say this line.
ore wa Tsukimiya Ayu.

always beaten by this line.

U1 no ijiwaru
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Old 2007-02-16, 12:31   Link #15
monir
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Simply an awesome episode. Jaris put it nicely as to why it is such a good episode:
Quote:
As for Yuuichi and Ayu, let me begin by discussing something off a tangent. In anime, people are so shy about expressing intimate feelings for one another. They’ll look the other way, they’ll cover their eyes, they’ll whisper, or they won’t say anything at all. Sometimes the most you will see is person A doing something to an unconscious person B in the middle of their sleep. CUT! That’s it. How do they respond to it? We don’t know…because they don’t talk about it or they don’t know it. Bugs me to hell! I want clear, definite visual/audio display that somebody likes someone. However, the problem may lie simply in Japan’s cultural imperatives. In other words, this is the way they’ve always portrayed love, and the producers don’t want to break a traditional method that works. But I don’t know how much more I can take this cliché act of ambiguity. And judging from statistics, the time for ambiguity and endings that don’t portray an ending is over. It may have worked with Evangelion or Bubblegum Crisis 2040 or Advent Children, but people are more fed up than entertained by it lately.

Kanon delivers the atypical, however (thank you). I hear a confession, and there’s various intimate acts going on around here. You totally get the sense that they’re comfortable with each other (well they’ve had seven years, right?). At the same time, they’re not willing to publicize it in front of Akiko and Nayuki all with good reason. They work hard for each other, and there’s a lot more time spent with these feelings within them, which naturally builds up (I believe the previous record of Yuuichi having romantic feelings for anyone – Shiori – was 10 minutes? Tops… before he realized he may never see her again?). Yuuichi chasing after her with obvious effort had some pretty strong impacts in my head (and his). The feelings he has for Ayu are stronger than any girl previous. And by now you should see the pattern. So really, I wonder what Nayuki will have to offer?
Btw, a sub has been out for a while by TWH & Sprocket.
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Old 2007-02-16, 12:58   Link #16
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Sushi-Y has pretty much explained the full on impact of the episode like usual. :3

Not that happy with how the Ayu x Yuuichi appeared out of no where after Shiori's story. Sure they didn't have that much time to work on it.. though i at least believe it could have been pulled of a lil' bit better. It was still cute, so i enjoyed it.

'm very much looking forward for needed Nayuki time, and seeing where this one goes shall be very interesting.
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Old 2007-02-16, 12:59   Link #17
guuchan
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After all those debate about the kiss from last episode, it just turned out to be a simple kiss for love. *whistles*

And woohoo, that scene in the game of U1 asking Ayu to try out different ways of addressing herself appeared! BUT... the way she said "atashi" here is kind of disappointing somehow. I remember I liked the one in the game. Anyway, that short insert scene of U1 describing how she would get kicked away from the interview is funny. Nice job, KyoAni.

After this episode, I agree that the pace now is kind of rush. If only they had shortened Makoto and Mai's arcs for a little, it should turn out slightly better. Oh well, what done is done.

Finally......

I declare this episode's prologue to be the best one so far! Ayu's confession is moe~~~~~~!! *can't wait for that avatar to be ready*
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Old 2007-02-16, 13:25   Link #18
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Well now.....I knew that what happened during the last minutes of Episode 20 would happen. I knew this from being a Toei-watcher, and also, from being a game transcript reader. Therefore, this shouldn't really come as a surprise to me, and therefore, I was expecting the impact of this scene to be muted on me since I've been spoiled beforehand.

Massive props to KyoAni then, for the extraordinary fact that they've still managed to make me clinically dead (from a stopped heart), for a few minutes. All this, despite the fact that I knew what was coming......it could only be the perfect combination of outstanding animation, well-timed plot build-up to the climax, and exceptional voice acting on Hoc-chan's part, that could lead to such a near-flawless rendition of Kanon's penultimate scene. Just for that alone, I would give this episode a 10 in a heartbeat.

However, I still have to take the rest of the episode into account, if I want to be as objective as I possibly could (which I know some of you might think of as "not very", but whatever ). Therefore, I will......but even so, there isn't much of anything I can pick a bone about.

First off, while some of you might think the escalating of Ayu-Yuuichi into a real relationship might be a little rushed, I personally think KyoAni's paced it perfectly for Episode 20. Some might say it's because they've known each other for 7 years, and therefore should know each other that well; I disagree, since because Yuuichi was absent for 7 years, there's a lot to make up for in such a relationship. Personally, I think what currently is happening in a relationship is a lot more important than how it started years ago.....and fortunately, KyoAni has set the foundation for the relationship from day 1, so to speak. The only reason I can think of that people might think that it has been rushed, is that these people in question are making the same mistake with the Ayu arc as they did with the Shiori arc; thinking that it lasted only a couple of episodes, while in all truth, it actually stretched back all the way to the beginning. Therefore, I don't feel there's anything wrong with the relationship progressing to this point; on the contrary, I see the day-to scenes that made up much of this episode as the well-deserved result of all the relationship-building Ayu and Yuuichi have been doing from day 1.

Okay. Enough about the cute couple; let's focus on Nayuki next. Last episode, I commented that Nayuki has become an even more likeable character for me due to the stoicism she displays in the face of her utter disappointment; she showed even more of that to even greater effect this episode. Anyone can catch the look in her eyes when Yuuichi and Ayu arrived home together, and I recall that look of hers resurfacing at least one more time in the same episode......what mattered to me more was the way she behaved after that. And I'll be blunt; if I liked Nayuki before, now I have nothing but pure respect for her. She is visibly traumatised to a certain extent, but if there needs any proof that she is related to Yuuichi, it is in her stoicism; just like him, she has proven herself good at not letting things affect her, and she even maintained a cordial relationship with her supposed love rival as well as Yuuichi even while she's hurting deep inside. Now THAT, is maturity. THAT, is self-respect. And with a Nayuki with as much respect for herself as this one, I can only grow to love her all the more.

With KyoAni's version of Nayuki, Toei's Nayuki now seemed to me like little more than a whining, self-pitying Kaede-wannabe, even though I pitied her before. I can definitely see KyoAni Nayuki opening fresh wounds in my heart once more when it comes time for the events of her arc, and I'm sure I will feel for KyoAni Nayuki, more than I ever did for Toei Nayuki. And......that, is saying a damned hell of a lot.

Only possible gripe I have? That Yuuichi seems a little too calm at the revelation at the end. But then again, that is what defines his character; he's the one who's "good at not letting things affect him", he is the pillar of strength who you can see remain standing after lesser beings around him have been felled by the emotional bruisings he has been through. In fact, put it this way; Toei Yuuichi makes me feel like he can get all the girls only because he's the typical loser harem male lead who just gets lucky ala Urashima Keitaro......but in KyoAni, while he still attracts the same number of girls, it's actually quite obvious why the girls are so drawn to him once you think about it; he is a bedrock of strength, whom the girls know they can lean on and count on for support, when the world seems about to overwhelm them. Go around and ask any girl what they look for in a man. I'm fairly certain they'll tell you the same thing.

Overall, what's my final conclusion even after taking the entirety of this episode into account?

Still a 10. It's that good.
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Old 2007-02-16, 13:31   Link #19
Blue Reverie
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[nevermind, misunderstanding]

Also, why do I keep getting redirected to a site in German?
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Old 2007-02-16, 14:03   Link #20
Dr Cain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Reverie View Post
[nevermind, misunderstanding]

Also, why do I keep getting redirected to a site in German?
Yeah me too, had to flush my dns for it to work..

Anyway, this episode was simply great, especially since I've already seen Toei's take on it. KyoAni just makes it so much better.
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