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Old 2006-06-06, 16:55   Link #1
Kurz
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Magnetic Elevators to space

While writing a bit for my Sci Fi story... It got me thinking could it be possible to create a Electromagnet tram to space (I never read anything dealing with Magnet trams I think the closest thing would be Gundam Seed's Magnetic Booster, or maybe I got it from Crest of the Stars *Been awhile since I seen it*).

Any who, while thinking about it, I got the urge to google it.

This is what I came up with

http://www.nd.edu/~hahn/pdf%20files/SpaceElevator.pdf

From reading this Article, this is really really interesting since its probably be the best way to get our butts into space.

There is even a book on the subject "The Space Elevator" Dr. Edwards.
I'll be picking this one up, I've always had a fasination in space so seeking a career in building the first footstep into space will be the next best thing.
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Old 2006-06-06, 17:11   Link #2
jedinat
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Isn't there such an elevator in Gunnm? From the sky city to the space station.
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Old 2006-06-06, 17:15   Link #3
Nightbat®
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Arthur C. Clarke already theorised that
the materials technology and knowledge needed to build such an elevator are available to create something like that

added bonus would be the energy lost by moving such a device upward would easily be regained returning to the ground
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Old 2006-06-06, 17:27   Link #4
Kurz
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Yes... he was mention in the article.
I was just stating, how I got interested in looking it up.

Though it stunned me a little to see someone else already thought it out.
I should read some of his books as well
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Old 2006-06-06, 17:41   Link #5
Sides
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Maybe you should look into space fountains as well.

I personally favour pulse propulsion a la project orion,
blowing things up to the sky is always fun ^^.
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Old 2006-06-06, 21:18   Link #6
Kurz
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Space Fountains... I read some theories on it.
Though the concept of using Magnetic fields to cusion against the High speed impacts of Metal Pelets to be... Wasteful
It wastes way too much energy to be practical.
At least till we have Fusion reactors.

Orion a fun way to get around the universe... though one issue... wouldnt the G forces be so immense it could kill you? Even though it is effective, it is really inefficient.

Plus I hope you dont mean to take off using Nuclear explosions...
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Last edited by Kurz; 2006-06-07 at 06:48.
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Old 2006-06-07, 05:31   Link #7
JanthraX^
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Carbon Nanotubes have made the 'space elevator' possible, before there wasnt a material that could be used as a tether to the space port at the end of the elevator.
Steel/iron any metal would just collapse under its own weight after a certain height.

For travelling around the galaxy, i think we need to invetsigate into the De Broglie hypothesis and quantum tunneling.
Also electric (ion) engines and making bigger and more powerful versions of them tied into a nuclear reactor for the huge electrical output.
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Old 2006-06-07, 07:13   Link #8
Kurz
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Quantam Tunneling, I read from a book by Dan Simmons where it centered around Quantam Tunneling. Doing this on the microscale is possible, Though replicating this with an entire object, lets say an apple a bit harder.

Since the apple is only usuable in its normal state, there is a definate chance of the apple just turning out as apple sauce on the other side of the tunnel.

Btw gravity being an issue... As long as you have a structure of small asteroid out in Geo Orbit and you stretch a cable to it, it'll act like a ball at the end of a string. The earth pulling it and spinning it.

Nano Tubes are in theory Really strong. Weakest link is that there is a chance for the nano tube to form incorrect bonds. So we are talking about, perfect engineering of nanotubes needs to be accomplished to make sure it doesnt fall apart.
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Old 2006-06-07, 07:17   Link #9
Lemonhead
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Quote:
While writing a bit for my Sci Fi story... It got me thinking could it be possible to create a Electromagnet tram to space (I never read anything dealing with Magnet trams I think the closest thing would be Gundam Seed's Magnetic Booster, or maybe I got it from Crest of the Stars *Been awhile since I seen it*).
didn't they have something similar to this in the Kiddy Grade anime?
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Old 2006-06-07, 10:17   Link #10
JanthraX^
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Originally Posted by Lemonhead
didn't they have something similar to this in the Kiddy Grade anime?
yep, thats was quite cool as their ship could use the magnetic rails as a sort of mass driver to propel them along as they left it. Also the elevator was attached to a dyson ring i think.
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Old 2006-06-07, 12:34   Link #11
Komataguri
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such a connection between the earth and the sky would short circuit the electrical current that runs the atmosphere.

Like sticking a screwdriver between the negative and positive poles in your breaker box.
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Old 2006-06-07, 12:59   Link #12
JanthraX^
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Originally Posted by Komataguri
such a connection between the earth and the sky would short circuit the electrical current that runs the atmosphere.

Like sticking a screwdriver between the negative and positive poles in your breaker box.
care to expand, i never thought about that, hmm got me thinking about this again =D

would have to use materials that dont conduct, maglev system would be out of the question.

Was there ever an actual current i know there are charged particles, but most activity comes from them when we see super lighting which reaches from the clouds up to the ionisphere
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Old 2006-06-07, 16:58   Link #13
Illuyankas
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How to use a space elevator to get things up into orbit? Simple - start bringing things down it, and use the energy created by this material coming down to power the stuff going up. Intial costs would be high, but it'd pay for itself in the long run.

Sci-fi wise, Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy, Red Mars, Green Mars and Blue Mars, about the colonisation and areoformation of Mars, has some interesting stuff about space elevators - science, social repercussions - and are damn good books as well. I highly recommend them.
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Old 2006-06-07, 18:08   Link #14
Jinto
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NASA had some experiments with an energy producing cable bound satelite in the space orbit.

http://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/wtether.html

My guesses are, that such an elevator (given it is build of some metal - electrographic components- ) would be a much more powerfull dynamo. Since it is earthed on the surface of the earth, it will forward this energy to its environment. Thereby the top of this elevator will be slowed down (compared to the lower parts of the elevator). This will lead to enormous kinetic forces on the structure. (given earth's magnetic field isn't constant, which is a known fact... and some time)
It is also possible, that different voltages in the atmosphere charge the elevator. If that results in a current, this elevator will move in the earth's magnetic field (either accelerating the effect of the non static earth's magnetic field or slowing it down... either way the outcome will be unpredictable)
If the material of this elevator consists only of isolators this will prevent this problem (I don't know about statical stability of such materials). Also imagine the risk. This thing would be far too vulnerable to malicious forces from space (meteroids...?) and earth (terrorist attack...?).
I assume it would not even withstand the earth atmosphere (that can be very harsh at times.)

A maglev powered rocket system (railgun?) or a surface laser bound elevating technologie sounds more realistic imho ( but what do I know )

Last edited by Jinto; 2006-06-08 at 02:43.
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Old 2006-06-07, 23:09   Link #15
Quarkboy
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All this sci-fi semi-realistic babble is fascinating to me .

Then again, my p.h.d thesis is going to be about brane worlds, so I guess I shouldn't complain.
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Old 2006-06-08, 00:30   Link #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurz
While writing a bit for my Sci Fi story... It got me thinking could it be possible to create a Electromagnet tram to space (I never read anything dealing with Magnet trams I think the closest thing would be Gundam Seed's Magnetic Booster, or maybe I got it from Crest of the Stars *Been awhile since I seen it*).

Any who, while thinking about it, I got the urge to google it.

This is what I came up with

http://www.nd.edu/~hahn/pdf%20files/SpaceElevator.pdf

From reading this Article, this is really really interesting since its probably be the best way to get our butts into space.

There is even a book on the subject "The Space Elevator" Dr. Edwards.
I'll be picking this one up, I've always had a fasination in space so seeking a career in building the first footstep into space will be the next best thing.
I find that an elevator to space is highly impossible. The sheer weight of the the outer lining of the elevator would be like trying to build a bridge from California to Hawaii. If it were a single structure like your typical elevators, then they can scrape this idea and start a new one.

"sigh", what i think the question is here is rather then creating a massive maglift to space, but how to efficiently transport materials into high orbit. And our big elevator theroy is just one of the ideas crazy idealists have though of.

ps: Don't over do what technology may not have allowed us to accomplish yet, eh?
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Old 2006-06-08, 00:40   Link #17
iKumdo
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They had the elevator in MMX8 also, and in Civ IV
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Old 2006-06-08, 03:16   Link #18
Sides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurz
Orion a fun way to get around the universe... though one issue... wouldnt the G forces be so immense it could kill you? Even though it is effective, it is really inefficient.
Hmm, you want to put a person inside ? I wouldn't. Unless his name is steve austin ^^;.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurz
Plus I hope you dont mean to take off using Nuclear explosions...
^^

There are lately more research in "taking off" (lauching) methods,
i remember one proposed by glasgow university, which involves a giant slingshot
link

TBH slingshots, mass drivers, chemical propulsion seems in my view more
realistic than elevators/fountains, but it is just my opinion.

BTW, are we getting a special discount for your book ^^
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Old 2006-06-08, 05:32   Link #19
JanthraX^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aoie_Emesai
I find that an elevator to space is highly impossible. The sheer weight of the the outer lining of the elevator would be like trying to build a bridge from California to Hawaii. If it were a single structure like your typical elevators, then they can scrape this idea and start a new one.

"sigh", what i think the question is here is rather then creating a massive maglift to space, but how to efficiently transport materials into high orbit. And our big elevator theroy is just one of the ideas crazy idealists have though of.

ps: Don't over do what technology may not have allowed us to accomplish yet, eh?

Weight and material was one of the biggest problems however the space elvator was brought up again upon the discovery of carbon naotubes which can be spun into massive ribbons and that very tough and strong yet very light.
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Old 2006-06-08, 05:50   Link #20
Lost
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Originally Posted by Nightbat®
Arthur C. Clarke already theorised that
the materials technology and knowledge needed to build such an elevator are available to create something like that

added bonus would be the energy lost by moving such a device upward would easily be regained returning to the ground
I'm sorry, don't you mean Roald Dahl? Tho he took the word "elevator" a little too literally
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