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Old 2008-03-26, 09:27   Link #841
Inanimated_object
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For argument's sake I would say that Rin do understand what riches are (but she knows a lot of other things as well for her age ~ blame Reiji).
I couldn't agree more, she sure understands the importance of money, for example that Xmas eve day, Rin protested when Reiji spent lot of money on presents and a luxurious dinner later on, and I quote: " *after he ask her not to worry about the stuff they bought and was ok to spend a little more sometimes * Rin:.... Really? Didn't we go bankrupt though?" end quote; also on Rin's 10th birthday, quote "Rin: Jeez, there you go again wasting to much money!, you dummy!" end quote. (These were extracted from Saha scanlations of ch. 17 and Ch.31, respectively).

Quote:
I also can't see how leaving it up to the adults in this case will help. Reiji arguing with her father will bring no conclusion, and worse yet if it has to go to court. Aoki has no right to input his own opinions, so all that is left IS Rin to decide (and the only person any of the adults will listen to).
Well, in this case the adults must be involved in this, and yes, if Aoki hadn't been there to, somehow "control" Reiji, the situation could've turned really, really ugly; That dreadful day Reiji couln't put himself together (notice that he was wearing non-matching socks), he didn't want to Rin look her best (dumb, dumb Reiji, looking her best is the best way of telling them (Roku and lawer) that she he is taking good care of her); also Reiji spoke for Rin when Roku was talking to her, and then both forgot Rin was present and they both spilled the beans (for those who have read ch.35, know what I'm talking about).

It's also true that Aoki had no business when comes to a family matters, but he was the only "adult"person that made an opening, so Rin can tell Roku exactly how she felt about all this, though he also was close to spill the beans too, good thing he didn't .
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Old 2008-03-26, 09:37   Link #842
kenjiharima
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Hmmm...better find scanlations of this manga...of KJ since it was canceled in the US.
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Old 2008-03-26, 10:13   Link #843
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Though i can't really input anything myself. I like reading all of these posts you guys are making. Keep it up guys, it's getting interesting.
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Old 2008-03-26, 10:52   Link #844
Dark Wing
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mykas
I remember my first shock in manga was reading a story where a pair of parents had both left behind thier teenage daughter to fend for herself because they had gotten remaried and she was inconvenient to them, and yet both parents still wielded tremendous power over the girl and her behavior. It seemed that the only value children had for the parents was what good they could produce for them and in that way the children were much the same as a chair or a tv set to be used when convenient and to sit silently doing nothing when not needed.

Btw please don't think these are my personal views just my observations and understanding of the way things work in east Asia.
It's a manga, not real life. Don't draw any deep conclusions about Japanese societies from it. Heck, in the damn news, here, we heard recently about a mother who killed her own children. Nobody'd conclude that it's normal for French mothers to kill their babies, would they?
It actually happens more often around the world then we all may think. I know one women form one of my classes whose 25 and her mother still controls almost every aspect of her life. She dosen't have a job because her mother won't let her work, She hasn't gone to college until most recently because her mom wouldn't let her, It's gotten to the point were she has been told she can't move out until she is married and (you guessed it) her mom has to decide whether it not guys is good enough. Now note this in America. I hate to image what it would be like in the more oppressed nations of the world.
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Old 2008-03-26, 12:55   Link #845
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It actually happens more often around the world then we all may think. I know one women form one of my classes whose 25 and her mother still controls almost every aspect of her life. She dosen't have a job because her mother won't let her work, She hasn't gone to college until most recently because her mom wouldn't let her, It's gotten to the point were she has been told she can't move out until she is married and (you guessed it) her mom has to decide whether it not guys is good enough. Now note this in America. I hate to image what it would be like in the more oppressed nations of the world.
I know this is offtopic, but how the fuck does that mom want to get her daughter married? It's kinda hard to get a boyfriend if you don't go to college or go to work. Not to mention that living with parents is another major turn off. While in Japan you have match making sesions. You don't have that sorta thing here. While I know there are cultural differences between people, but some things are just retarted. >_>
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Old 2008-03-26, 14:34   Link #846
Dark Wing
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I know this is offtopic, but how the fuck does that mom want to get her daughter married? It's kinda hard to get a boyfriend if you don't go to college or go to work. Not to mention that living with parents is another major turn off. While in Japan you have match making sesions. You don't have that sorta thing here. While I know there are cultural differences between people, but some things are just retarded. >_>
Personally I think it's some sort of psychological fear of loneness on the mothers part seeing how her husband died my guess is when her daughter leaves thats it she'd be all alone.

In turn a lot of times it isn't loneness that makes parents spawn this kind of obsessive control. There are 2 more common reasons:

1. The desire to actually live through ones children. This is were a parent wants their child to do the things they may have never been able to do or literately be a carbon copy of the parent. *cough*Reiji!*cough*

2. The obsessive need to protect said child for everything imaginable. Now there is nothing wrong with being protective when your child is young. However I feel that when he/she reaches a certain age say late teens/early twenties. I believe thats when you should start trusting that they can look after his/her self.
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Old 2008-03-26, 15:37   Link #847
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It makes sense if the mother doesn't have a partner. The "fear of being lonely" rings a bell, and if she is the only daughter, even more so.

But dam that is scary. Mental behaviour like that could lead to the worse in prolonged cases O.O
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Old 2008-03-26, 16:23   Link #848
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
It actually happens more often around the world then we all may think. I know one women form one of my classes whose 25 and her mother still controls almost every aspect of her life. She dosen't have a job because her mother won't let her work, She hasn't gone to college until most recently because her mom wouldn't let her, It's gotten to the point were she has been told she can't move out until she is married and (you guessed it) her mom has to decide whether it not guys is good enough. Now note this in America. I hate to image what it would be like in the more oppressed nations of the world.
I know, but that sort of thing - at least, such an extreme case - is the exception rather than the rule. All I'm saying is, don't equate "unlike what I read in a manga once" with "deviates from the norm".
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Old 2008-03-26, 16:57   Link #849
Dark Wing
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I know, but that sort of thing - at least, such an extreme case - is the exception rather than the rule. All I'm saying is, don't equate "unlike what I read in a manga once" with "deviates from the norm".
I'm aware of what you were trying to imply but the way you said it made it sound like it never happens in real life. I was just simply saying once in while it dose.

No harm done right?

Anyway even you yourself have to admit that though the case may not be extreme there are a few parents who can be over baring and not even realize it.
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Old 2008-03-26, 17:40   Link #850
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I know, but that sort of thing - at least, such an extreme case - is the exception rather than the rule. All I'm saying is, don't equate "unlike what I read in a manga once" with "deviates from the norm".
For some reason you seem to think of manga in the same way as one would think of comic books and I suppose that is a very simple way to view them, but manga has a much deeper cultural signifigance to the japanese than comic books do to westerners. In japan all ages and all walks of life read manga and stories are targeted at these different groups ever hear of the "slice of life" genre? and there are different versions of it for every group out there shonen/shoujou, seinen/josei and so on. these things really do reflect japanese culture and offer people a window into lives they wish they had or maybe even a fresh perspective on thier own life. yes some stories are obviously fantastical like dragon ball z etc but even some of the fantastical stories borrow elements from real life. for example in bleach (which no one could deny jumps right into the fantastical) I would imagine the school scenes portrayed resemble real life schools in japan (especially since they resemble school scenes is so many other manga) to lend credence to the more fantastical elements of the story. It only makes sense then that less fantastical stories like Kodomo No Jikan, which I think most of us could wrap our heads around as a true story if it was presented that way, would be more rooted in real life Japan.
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Last edited by Mykas; 2008-03-26 at 18:10.
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Old 2008-03-26, 18:12   Link #851
Anh_Minh
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I treat manga the same way I treat comic books, novels, or movies. They're work of fictions. Stories. They can all be variously realistic, and each work has to be treated on its own merits.

But most, if not all of them, have in common that their primary objective isn't to describe what Japan's really like, but to entertain. Because, let's face it: real life is boring. Most people go through childhood without living more than a few anecdotes, never mind a multi-volume series. There is also the fact that the target audience of manga already know what Real Life Japan is like. They live in it. No need to tell them what it's like.

So, yeah, while some information can be gleaned from reading manga, one should be careful with it. For example, don't expect to find an Absurdly Powerful Student Council in every school. Or a goddamn harem. Or that delinquent who spends his time fighting multiple opponents, and win.

Reading a manga or two certainly doesn't make you qualified to say "Oh, wow, it's totally weird for Aoki to interfere in Rin's family affairs. No Japanese teacher would ever dare to do that".
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Old 2008-03-26, 18:24   Link #852
2H-Dragon
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
So, yeah, while some information can be gleaned from reading manga, one should be careful with it. For example, don't expect to find an Absurdly Powerful Student Council in every school. Or a goddamn harem. Or that delinquent who spends his time fighting multiple opponents, and win.
lol that's like saying Shaft is fake.
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Old 2008-03-26, 19:17   Link #853
Dark Wing
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I treat manga the same way I treat comic books, novels, or movies. They're work of fictions. Stories. They can all be variously realistic, and each work has to be treated on its own merits.

But most, if not all of them, have in common that their primary objective isn't to describe what Japan's really like, but to entertain. Because, let's face it: real life is boring. Most people go through childhood without living more than a few anecdotes, never mind a multi-volume series. There is also the fact that the target audience of manga already know what Real Life Japan is like. They live in it. No need to tell them what it's like.

So, yeah, while some information can be gleaned from reading manga, one should be careful with it. For example, don't expect to find an Absurdly Powerful Student Council in every school. Or a goddamn harem. Or that delinquent who spends his time fighting multiple opponents, and win.

Reading a manga or two certainly doesn't make you qualified to say "Oh, wow, it's totally weird for Aoki to interfere in Rin's family affairs. No Japanese teacher would ever dare to do that".
While I agree with most of your points because yes. Comics, Novels, Movies, etc. are for most part meant to entertain. However I believe what Mykas is trying to say that you can't just dismiss whatever message (if any) the story is attempting to convey.

It's like reading an old fairytale and not even getting or caring about the moral of the story which is 9 time out of 10 the whole motivation behind the tale. A few examples would be:

The Boy Who Cried Wolf = If you lie all the time people will stop believing you.
Little Red Riding Hood = Don't talk to strangers.
Cinderella = Do on to others.
Snow White = It's whats inside that counts, Envy, etc.

I can go on and on but I'm too lazy... but I think you get what I'm trying to say?
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Old 2008-03-27, 01:13   Link #854
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
While I agree with most of your points because yes. Comics, Novels, Movies, etc. are for most part meant to entertain. However I believe what Mykas is trying to say that you can't just dismiss whatever message (if any) the story is attempting to convey.

It's like reading an old fairytale and not even getting or caring about the moral of the story which is 9 time out of 10 the whole motivation behind the tale. A few examples would be:

The Boy Who Cried Wolf = If you lie all the time people will stop believing you.
Little Red Riding Hood = Don't talk to strangers.
Cinderella = Do on to others.
Snow White = It's whats inside that counts, Envy, etc.

I can go on and on but I'm too lazy... but I think you get what I'm trying to say?
And I never said anything of the sort. What I said was more "Don't read Snow White and conclude that your stepmother is going to poison you". I mean, maybe she will poison you, but Snow White isn't evidence of it and shouldn't be treated so.
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Old 2008-03-27, 14:23   Link #855
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Question for the experts:

One of the main mysteries that for me has yet to be fully clarified is Rin's dark side, what it is, why and when it emerged, and what part Reiji had in its development.

I was especially confused by certain developments within the last 2-3 chapters; specifically, Rin driving off Reiji's office co-worker who was interested in him and comes by the house. Subsequently, when Aoki confronts Rin in school over whether Reiji was abusing her at home, Rin says she loves Reiji and asks that she not be separated from him.

So, is Rin's feelings for Reiji a normal daughter->father sort of possessiveness? One of unhealthy dependency? Is she aware that Reiji is projecting his affection for Aki onto her? How does Rin feel about that? Does Rin feel threatened by the possibility that what's left of the happiness they had as a family of three will be wiped out if Reiji moves on, i.e. finds new love in his life (the healthy thing to do, btw)?

The nature of Rin's thoughts on her relationship with Reiji are what I interested. The other relationships in the story, by comparison, are more straightforward.
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Old 2008-03-27, 15:32   Link #856
Sian
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i think Rin knows about Reiji's problems ... but she aren't aware of them
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Old 2008-03-27, 15:33   Link #857
Dark Wing
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Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector View Post
Question for the experts:

One of the main mysteries that for me has yet to be fully clarified is Rin's dark side, what it is, why and when it emerged, and what part Reiji had in its development.

I was especially confused by certain developments within the last 2-3 chapters; specifically, Rin driving off Reiji's office co-worker who was interested in him and comes by the house. Subsequently, when Aoki confronts Rin in school over whether Reiji was abusing her at home, Rin says she loves Reiji and asks that she not be separated from him.

So, is Rin's feelings for Reiji a normal daughter->father sort of possessiveness? One of unhealthy dependency? Is she aware that Reiji is projecting his affection for Aki onto her? How does Rin feel about that? Does Rin feel threatened by the possibility that what's left of the happiness they had as a family of three will be wiped out if Reiji moves on, i.e. finds new love in his life (the healthy thing to do, btw)?

The nature of Rin's thoughts on her relationship with Reiji are what I interested. The other relationships in the story, by comparison, are more straightforward.
Lunar Archivist posted a wiki article he wrote a few pages back that kind of gives you a more detailed view into each characters psychic...I hopes this helps a bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...kan_characters

And If I may I would also like to add that yes Rin is well aware of Reiji's feelings for her and knows that he's not right in the head. (see Volume 3, Chapter 19, Page 6)

However she seem to be denial about it and blind by her love for him as her father. In other words she just doesn't want to believe. (See Volume 5, Chapter 34)

Also for the Female coworker thing. Rin with dark side on her for one simple reason the same reason she scared off her biological father because Rin viewed her as threat to the only family she's ever known. By asking if Reiji had any he liked that brought up an automatic Red Flag. (see Rin's reaction Volume 5, Chapter 33, page15) The reason for this Rin believe no one should have Reiji but her mother Aki.

This in turn is also the reason Rin tells Mimi it's okay for her go for Reiji because Mimi reminds Rin a lot of her mom.(see Volume 5, Chapter 29, page 14)

Well thats my two cents...hope it helps yea.
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Old 2008-03-28, 13:47   Link #858
Inanimated_object
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I'm not be much of an expert, but I'll try to be as helpful as I can.

Quote:
One of the main mysteries that for me has yet to be fully clarified is Rin's dark side, what it is, why and when it emerged, and what part Reiji had in its development.
Like Dark wing posted, that part of Rin's side is yet to be explained, however I'd like to quote on the 2 of her sides (as far as we know and they were explained in the wiki entry), one of them is the "loving" side: quote "I bring light where is darkeness.... hope shines brightly within my chest...in my heart, there lies a bouquet of roses!" end quote (extracted from Saha scanlation of Ch. 27); and her "dark" side quote "For some reason ... there are times when I don't feel like myself....times when things I love or enjoy no longer matter... when I give in, It's as if I can no longer see, and can no longer feel....I'm even capaple of doing horrible things. It wouldn't matter to me even if someone were to get killed, because.....it's like I'm not even there" end quote (again from Saha scanlation of Ch. 31).

As you can see she is fully aware of what she's doing and/or thinking, and it's not like, in some cases, a person develops a second self, and that "self" is usally a bad one, and it's capable, among other things, of killing or doing something bad, but once the first "self" retakes over of his/her body, he/she can't recall what happened before the second self took over.

Quote:
I was especially confused by certain developments within the last 2-3 chapters; specifically, Rin driving off Reiji's office co-worker who was interested in him and comes by the house. Subsequently, when Aoki confronts Rin in school over whether Reiji was abusing her at home, Rin says she loves Reiji and asks that she not be separated from him.
Dark wing has also answered this situacion, but I'd to add something else, first, Reiji's co-worker showed some guts when she showed at the door entrance, bringing 3 slices of cake, in hopes of winning Rin over (she picked up this idea of her, beacuse Reiji would praise how cute and nice Rin is ), and of course we know Rin is the top dog, the big cheese, the ruler of the house, etc. So, for Rin nothing works better than a psychological attack, and there goes the co-worker, running back where she came from, although she got away with an eye candy of Reiji birth suit. . And also, Rin believes the person that should take Reiji's heart is no other than Mimi.

The Aoki finding Rin's kiss marks issue, sure put him in red alert mode, and he even tried to involve the respective authorities in this, but had no luck, or more specifically had not enough evidence to prove it; Also let's focus on what Rin said to Aoki: "Rin: I still" love him.", So she is basically saying, "eventhough Reiji is being a creep towards me, and he's far from well in the head, he's been like a father to me and he has taken good care of me and because of this I feel that I can't just abandon him, at least not yet," wich makes her fell bad, not to mention that she tries to hide the fact that Reiji is breaking that father-daugther bond, one that she yearns so much for.

Well this is all I can say about the development of the current situations, let's hope the next realeases bring us a conclusion to them.
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Old 2008-03-28, 17:21   Link #859
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Picture time:

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Old 2008-03-28, 23:17   Link #860
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Picture time:
Hmmmm.... more like "little red x time"
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